Oscar

[BlueLyon 9,359]

You are overestimating Oscars influence (if you can call it that) in the team big time here. we have lost/drawn and/or played like absolute crap in many games that oscar has played in and he has actually been one of the worst players on the pitch in some of those games, he's known as mr inconsistent for a reason.

There are many reasons for our poor form but oscar isn't one. far from it. I can give you reasons like key players out of form, Jose's team selections and persistence with under-performing players, rubbish tactics, lack of a balanced and functioning central midfield, our luck of getting away with bad performances finally running out and so on.

Cesc is as inconsistent as Oscar yet no one mentioned it till recently. But he was same last year. As was Costa.

Oscar gets way too much trashing on here, Im not saying he is the sole reason why we play bad, but his role is still underrated by many here.

When all our players are in form, Oscar is definately among starters.

He has been inconsistent as fuck indeed, but he is one of players that has better intelligence, movement and tactical understanding than majority of our players if not all. Something that is crucial for buildup, yet you cant put it on youtube highlights or even see when watching game unless focus on Oscar only.

[yuvala 2,167]

Cesc is as inconsistent as Oscar yet no one mentioned it till recently. But he was same last year. As was Costa.

Oscar gets way too much trashing on here, Im not saying he is the sole reason why we play bad, but his role is still underrated by many here.

When all our players are in form, Oscar is definately among starters.

He has been inconsistent as fuck indeed, but he is one of players that has better intelligence, movement and tactical understanding than majority of our players if not all. Something that is crucial for buildup, yet you cant put it on youtube highlights or even see when watching game unless focus on Oscar only.

I agree but I think the main difference for most people is Oscar being here for like what now? 3 seasons ? now starting his fourth. Cesc and Diego however - it's only their 2nd season.

[iseah100 5,612]

IS he healthy now??

[Kieran. 6,317]

IS he healthy now??

I think he's back in training finally.

[termninja 5,290]

Ok now here comes Jose saying he will keep him on bench until he builds fitness back

[coolhead23 1,146]

You know Real madrid didnt knew what Makelele offers so they sold him. But soon the rest of the team become shit. Maka wasnt some flashy player, but he was vital. He was vital despite being invisible in games. He made others be able to do their job.

I dont say that Oscar is on same level as Maka. But he might have some similar impact on our team. All we know we played the best football when Oscar was on fire in first half of last season. He turned shit and rest of team didnt have the same balance and control either after. Costa was less efficient, Cesc out of depth, Matic...

I think Oscars pressing is helping Matic, the way he goes in middle to pick the ball, and connect with attack helps Cesc, the way he moves in attack, drags on players, makes simple yet key passes helps our attack. And he adds couple of goals and assists on top.

Yes our form is not the best and Oscar is not sole reason, but maybe Oscar in best form is what the real key for this team is. He might not be the motor of team, but someone who makes the motor click and work properly.

I know this sounds a bit silly, but never underestimate the impact of a player just because he isnt flashy.

Great poster ...

I have a query/theory and hope I get an answer for it.

Firstly I believe in Oscar and for someone of his size the defensive work he puts in is remarkable along side his offensive ability. My theory that he is not on top of is game is because he doesnt play the actual role of 10 but is more involved in filling the void that Cesc creates ... If he is given a free role, he might end up with much goals from the midfield. Do u believe removing Cesc from the CM position and putting in someone like a B2B will really help Oscar reach the potential we all want him to ...

Second thing, by removing Cesc lot of us would say that there is no creativity in the side ... So when Oscar is already tracking back and puts up such good defensive work shouldnt he be paired outright with Matic and Cesc pushed as no10.

Really want to understand which of the 2 works or there is something else which I dont see ... Thoughts please (anyone) ...

[BlueLyon 9,359]

Great poster ...

I have a query/theory and hope I get an answer for it.

Firstly I believe in Oscar and for someone of his size the defensive work he puts in is remarkable along side his offensive ability. My theory that he is not on top of is game is because he doesnt play the actual role of 10 but is more involved in filling the void that Cesc creates ... If he is given a free role, he might end up with much goals from the midfield. Do u believe removing Cesc from the CM position and putting in someone like a B2B will really help Oscar reach the potential we all want him to ...

Second thing, by removing Cesc lot of us would say that there is no creativity in the side ... So when Oscar is already tracking back and puts up such good defensive work shouldnt he be paired outright with Matic and Cesc pushed as no10.

Really want to understand which of the 2 works or there is something else which I dont see ... Thoughts please (anyone) ...

I think both Oscar and Cesc in our team at same time will only work if both improve alot. Cesc in defense and Oscar being more consistent. If not, one will have to be cut off, because Oscar is lightweight and inconsistent, while Cesc is terrible without the ball and with it under pressure. That makes us very weak in middle, something we need to change if we want to continue with Mou tactical approach.

I have no idea what would work best, I think we need to add another CM in the team, but someone who is very versatile and not just great at defending or attack, but bit of both. Take either a playmaker type like Verratti, Koke or Gundogan or classic b2b like Vidal. Play 4:3:3 with Matic, new CM and Cesc/Oscar, with Hazard and Pedro on wings.

But its all about the form. If Cesc picks it up, he can be useful in smaller games, like last year. if Oscar picks it up, the whole team will benefit from his defensive and offensive shift he puts.

My bet, despite not being positive one, is that Cesc wont be able to fill the role of playmaker and at same time improve his defending, which makes him a weak spot in team in big games, therefore he would be useless. He would be another Mata in Mou team. Maybe he is slightly better off the ball than Mata, but he is still far from what you expect form Mourinho midfield player. Bring Gundogan and we are set in that case.

If Oscar becomes more consistent, he will be very good for us and certainly has spot in big or small games. But if not...then he might be sold aswell.

As for your two questions,

1.) I think having anyone but Cesc (because his lack of defensive shift) in pivot will massively improve both Matic and Oscar/Willian because those two wont need to cover for Cesc all the time. Then again, we would be short on creativity, and someone would need to replace it. Main problem with Oscar is consistency and he needs to fix that on his own, it wont matter if we have two Matic's in mid, if Oscar will be inconsistent, we wont have enough creativity. A creative, but combatative mid like Gundogan, Koke or Verratti would however fix the creativity. But like I said, those three can do more work in defense, but arent as good offensive compared to inform Cesc. Oscar would have less work in defense then, but would need to do more in attack. While I dont think Oscar is your man to be the cretor of the team, I believe he can improve alot. He is not typical #10, but he could be our ''Lampard'', someone who adds quite many assists and key goals.

2.) Matic and Oscar with Cesc as #10 might work short term, but from what I saw, Cesc is better when he plays deeper (at least his contribution to attack, he is pretty much useless in defense regardless where he plays). Oscar on other hand, playing deep, Im not sure. He is great defender for a #10, but an average defender among DMs and B2Bs. Main thing is he is too small and therefore not strong enough to be CM. I would either play him at #10 or in 4:3:3 next to Matic and Gundogan/Verratti/Koke/XYZ.

As for now, to make least radical changes, bring CM in january (preferably Gundogan or someone similar) and then rotate, rotate, rotate. Play those who are in form. Whoever performs will get another year, whoever doesnt will get the stick. Be it Oscar or Cesc or someone third.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Great poster ...

I have a query/theory and hope I get an answer for it.

Firstly I believe in Oscar and for someone of his size the defensive work he puts in is remarkable along side his offensive ability. My theory that he is not on top of is game is because he doesnt play the actual role of 10 but is more involved in filling the void that Cesc creates ... If he is given a free role, he might end up with much goals from the midfield. Do u believe removing Cesc from the CM position and putting in someone like a B2B will really help Oscar reach the potential we all want him to ...

Second thing, by removing Cesc lot of us would say that there is no creativity in the side ... So when Oscar is already tracking back and puts up such good defensive work shouldnt he be paired outright with Matic and Cesc pushed as no10.

Really want to understand which of the 2 works or there is something else which I dont see ... Thoughts please (anyone) ...

The sole reason Cesc does not play there is because he is utterly shit there, has completely underperformed whenever he has played CAM.

Maybe it's because he's unathletic and can't take any pressure so can't either play the killer ball or run into space and support the striker.

The only way to do it is to play an athletic supporting midfielder such as Oscar to cover up his weaknesses defending. It's no coincidence the first half of 14/15 pre injuries when oscar-matic-cesc we brought our best game. Afaik had we won that swansea match which we really should have done there would be far fewer question marks reagarding team integrity.

[coolhead23 1,146]

I think both Oscar and Cesc in our team at same time will only work if both improve alot. Cesc in defense and Oscar being more consistent. If not, one will have to be cut off, because Oscar is lightweight and inconsistent, while Cesc is terrible without the ball and with it under pressure. That makes us very weak in middle, something we need to change if we want to continue with Mou tactical approach.

I have no idea what would work best, I think we need to add another CM in the team, but someone who is very versatile and not just great at defending or attack, but bit of both. Take either a playmaker type like Verratti, Koke or Gundogan or classic b2b like Vidal. Play 4:3:3 with Matic, new CM and Cesc/Oscar, with Hazard and Pedro on wings.

But its all about the form. If Cesc picks it up, he can be useful in smaller games, like last year. if Oscar picks it up, the whole team will benefit from his defensive and offensive shift he puts.

My bet, despite not being positive one, is that Cesc wont be able to fill the role of playmaker and at same time improve his defending, which makes him a weak spot in team in big games, therefore he would be useless. He would be another Mata in Mou team. Maybe he is slightly better off the ball than Mata, but he is still far from what you expect form Mourinho midfield player. Bring Gundogan and we are set in that case.

If Oscar becomes more consistent, he will be very good for us and certainly has spot in big or small games. But if not...then he might be sold aswell.

As for your two questions,

1.) I think having anyone but Cesc (because his lack of defensive shift) in pivot will massively improve both Matic and Oscar/Willian because those two wont need to cover for Cesc all the time. Then again, we would be short on creativity, and someone would need to replace it. Main problem with Oscar is consistency and he needs to fix that on his own, it wont matter if we have two Matic's in mid, if Oscar will be inconsistent, we wont have enough creativity. A creative, but combatative mid like Gundogan, Koke or Verratti would however fix the creativity. But like I said, those three can do more work in defense, but arent as good offensive compared to inform Cesc. Oscar would have less work in defense then, but would need to do more in attack. While I dont think Oscar is your man to be the cretor of the team, I believe he can improve alot. He is not typical #10, but he could be our ''Lampard'', someone who adds quite many assists and key goals.

2.) Matic and Oscar with Cesc as #10 might work short term, but from what I saw, Cesc is better when he plays deeper (at least his contribution to attack, he is pretty much useless in defense regardless where he plays). Oscar on other hand, playing deep, Im not sure. He is great defender for a #10, but an average defender among DMs and B2Bs. Main thing is he is too small and therefore not strong enough to be CM. I would either play him at #10 or in 4:3:3 next to Matic and Gundogan/Verratti/Koke/XYZ.

As for now, to make least radical changes, bring CM in january (preferably Gundogan or someone similar) and then rotate, rotate, rotate. Play those who are in form. Whoever performs will get another year, whoever doesnt will get the stick. Be it Oscar or Cesc or someone third.

Adding a CM is obviously atmost important ... lets not go there ... And to be honest from now till January is going to be a long time for us. Lack of extra CMs mite throw us out of tournaments ...

I agree on the Oscar being the Lampardseque player, I feel he has that ...

Also Cesc likes to play from the deep, heard that a lot but the thing is that the way we're set up means anyone besides Matic HAS to do everything and Cesc becomes a luxury ...

I dont agree that being short Oscar doesnt offer much as a deep lying playmaker or B2B in terms of defense, I feel he can makes up for the lack of aerial ability with his tackles and interceptions in the middle ... something he is really good at ...

But still confused as to why Oscar is not able to fulfill his potential ... maybe it is Consistency as u pointed but still confused ...

Thanks for the perspective ...

[Oscar 441]

I think both Oscar and Cesc in our team at same time will only work if both improve alot. Cesc in defense and Oscar being more consistent. If not, one will have to be cut off, because Oscar is lightweight and inconsistent, while Cesc is terrible without the ball and with it under pressure. That makes us very weak in middle, something we need to change if we want to continue with Mou tactical approach.

I have no idea what would work best, I think we need to add another CM in the team, but someone who is very versatile and not just great at defending or attack, but bit of both. Take either a playmaker type like Verratti, Koke or Gundogan or classic b2b like Vidal. Play 4:3:3 with Matic, new CM and Cesc/Oscar, with Hazard and Pedro on wings.

But its all about the form. If Cesc picks it up, he can be useful in smaller games, like last year. if Oscar picks it up, the whole team will benefit from his defensive and offensive shift he puts.

My bet, despite not being positive one, is that Cesc wont be able to fill the role of playmaker and at same time improve his defending, which makes him a weak spot in team in big games, therefore he would be useless. He would be another Mata in Mou team. Maybe he is slightly better off the ball than Mata, but he is still far from what you expect form Mourinho midfield player. Bring Gundogan and we are set in that case.

If Oscar becomes more consistent, he will be very good for us and certainly has spot in big or small games. But if not...then he might be sold aswell.

As for your two questions,

1.) I think having anyone but Cesc (because his lack of defensive shift) in pivot will massively improve both Matic and Oscar/Willian because those two wont need to cover for Cesc all the time. Then again, we would be short on creativity, and someone would need to replace it. Main problem with Oscar is consistency and he needs to fix that on his own, it wont matter if we have two Matic's in mid, if Oscar will be inconsistent, we wont have enough creativity. A creative, but combatative mid like Gundogan, Koke or Verratti would however fix the creativity. But like I said, those three can do more work in defense, but arent as good offensive compared to inform Cesc. Oscar would have less work in defense then, but would need to do more in attack. While I dont think Oscar is your man to be the cretor of the team, I believe he can improve alot. He is not typical #10, but he could be our ''Lampard'', someone who adds quite many assists and key goals.

2.) Matic and Oscar with Cesc as #10 might work short term, but from what I saw, Cesc is better when he plays deeper (at least his contribution to attack, he is pretty much useless in defense regardless where he plays). Oscar on other hand, playing deep, Im not sure. He is great defender for a #10, but an average defender among DMs and B2Bs. Main thing is he is too small and therefore not strong enough to be CM. I would either play him at #10 or in 4:3:3 next to Matic and Gundogan/Verratti/Koke/XYZ.

As for now, to make least radical changes, bring CM in january (preferably Gundogan or someone similar) and then rotate, rotate, rotate. Play those who are in form. Whoever performs will get another year, whoever doesnt will get the stick. Be it Oscar or Cesc or someone third.

I have my doubts on Koke actually working. Like Cesc, he is a turtle and at atletico he plays as left midfielder, rarely in the 2 middle spots..... People thought Koke coming into Chelsea would drop Oscar, but essentially it would drop Cesc.

Gundogan has looked like 2012 Gundogan.

I think a lot of the problems stems with the back. Thibo is brilliant goalkeeper defensively, however, isn't good in other aspects such as dribbling/ballhandling and long passes and quick ball release. Than, none of the cahill, zouma, terry are quick (zouma is fast, but not quick) and none can really setup the team well from the back like David luiz could or any brazilian/spanish CB. Than, the CMs. Matic is long and tall, so he can cover ground well, however, his stamina isn't that good, nor is his particulary on the fast or quick side and Cesc already has his phsyical limits. Oscar covered for them phsyical. but his pressing was absolutely better than any individual player I have ever seen am wise(granted other teams press well collectively). People say he sucks in the second half, however, when you look at him phsyically and the work he does in the first half, you can kind of assess why that does happen.

Honestly, the idea that Jose has for the n10 on Chelsea is a position I think only a prime Vidal could play in the world.

[Unionjack 7,531]

The sole reason Cesc does not play there is because he is utterly shit there, has completely underperformed whenever he has played CAM.

Maybe it's because he's unathletic and can't take any pressure so can't either play the killer ball or run into space and support the striker.

The only way to do it is to play an athletic supporting midfielder such as Oscar to cover up his weaknesses defending. It's no coincidence the first half of 14/15 pre injuries when oscar-matic-cesc we brought our best game. Afaik had we won that swansea match which we really should have done there would be far fewer question marks reagarding team integrity.

I agree bud. Ive always thought Oscar better suited to a MF in a 4-3-3. Hes just not a good CAM. Number 10 is a speialized position just as alot of positions and IMHO we dont have anyone to fit that bill.

[zolayes 14,489]

I agree bud. Ive always thought Oscar better suited to a MF in a 4-3-3. Hes just not a good CAM. Number 10 is a speialized position just as alot of positions and IMHO we dont have anyone to fit that bill.

we have never replaced Zola and doubt if we ever will ,, A reasonable copy is the best we can hope for ,, A similar situation with replacing Makele

[Unionjack 7,531]

we have never replaced Zola and doubt if we ever will ,, A reasonable copy is the best we can hope for ,, A similar situation with replacing Makele

Hard to fill both those lads shoes.

How is Oscar? Ive not seen anything to say exactly what his injury was. I presumed it was muscular tho?? Its 4 weeks now.

[Oscar 441]

Coutinho getting passed on by another Brazilian coach...

Oscar never had to worry about Coutinho. Coutinho is essentially dead last in ams right now for dunga.

Neymar, oscar, willian, costa, lucas, coutinho/firmio

[Stats 7,053]

Coutinho getting passed on by another Brazilian coach...

Oscar never had to worry about Coutinho. Coutinho is essentially dead last in ams right now for dunga.

Neymar, oscar, willian, costa, lucas, coutinho/firmio

Coutinho really should be in Brazil's team.He is better than Oscar but even if it means Oscar staying in the team, Coutinho should be playing with Oscar. He has stepped his game up to another level. He works hard, great balance, improved his long range shooting and he is a game changer. Amazing player.

[Despiadado.Maleante 1,046]

Coutinho is one of the most overrated players in the world. His a massive shot merchant and like Ivanovic people look past his limitations because he scores a few flashy goals. He only has 8-12 good games a year.

[Oscar 441]

Coutinho really should be in Brazil's team.He is better than Oscar but even if it means Oscar staying in the team, Coutinho should be playing with Oscar. He has stepped his game up to another level. He works hard, great balance, improved his long range shooting and he is a game changer. Amazing player.

Coutinho has 1 goal on 18 shots so far....

No one rates Coutinho over Oscar, especially in Brazil. Coutinho never should of made PFA team of the year last season and this season he played well against Arsenal and that's it. He doesn't work hard because he has limitations phsyically and he doesn't provide great balance at all.... Coutinho never scored more goals than Oscar since they both came into the EPL and Oscar has never lost his place in Brazil since he took over for Ganso.

[Stats 7,053]

Coutinho has 1 goal on 18 shots so far....

No one rates Coutinho over Oscar, especially in Brazil. Coutinho never should of made PFA team of the year last season and this season he played well against Arsenal and that's it. He doesn't work hard because he has limitations phsyically and he doesn't provide great balance at all.... Coutinho never scored more goals than Oscar since they both came into the EPL and Oscar has never lost his place in Brazil since he took over for Ganso.

I am basing it on what I see. BTW Coutinho was given MOTM against Stoke this season and that was a stunning solo effort. I just feel he has the ability to take control of the game. Dribble past players, create chances and is generally improving. Yeah, I don't think he should have made PFA team of the year but he was quality. Maybe for Brazil, Oscar is a better fit but when I watch the two play for club, excluding goals and assists, I just think Coutinho is a better player. Coutinho should really have 2 goals to his name but that was an outstanding save from Cech. Another game where he took complete control and they could not deal with him.

Physically, that is the thing, his balance has improved immensely. You only have to look from last season and the opening stages of this season to see how much of a goal threat from long range Coutinho is starting to become. Southampton, City, Stoke etc.

While Oscar is a good player and they are around the same age, I feel Coutinho has got a much higher ceiling. He has got that burst of pace, dribbling, vision and I just feel he is becoming a complete player. Agree to disagree. Before I would have said Oscar. Now I feel Coutinho is just getting better and better.