🇧🇷 Oscar

[The Mak 4,459]

Ozil is the best 10 and flourished at RM. However, at Arsenal he doesnt and brits call him the flop of the year and was getting benched and subbed out quite a bit....

When your manager tells you to play a role, you play that role... Jose and Scolari gives a role for Oscar to play. People seem to think Oscar plays the same role as Mata does, but he doesnt. The tactics are completely different for both players.....

Put hazard/willian/cesc in the role jose gave oscar, lets see if they can last a full season playing that demanding of a role...

You can argue that players are assigned roles based on their strengths and we know what Oscars strengths are and creating is not currently one of them. The same way when we see Fabregas as no. 10 we'll see a completely different animal.

I believe creativity comes instinctually ala Hazard, Fabregas, Mata etc. and I haven't seen anything to convince me Oscar can touch their levels of creativity. If he could, he wouldn't be asked to be so defensive. Putting it another way, he is currently being asked to play like Ramires and I think that is more so because his offensive limitations rather than anything else...

[drog.ba 239]

This is what I'm afraid of. In the 2012 season it was 'tired because of the Olympics', last season it was 'tired because of the Confederation Cup/focusing on the WC' and now next season it seems it will be 'tired/ needemotionally drained because of the World Cup'.

How long do the excuses go on for? How do you excuse a player for going missing for nearly half a season or never really doing enough offensively? He's still a professional football player and gets rest/extra rest like other players who have also played in tournaments. I don't think the excuses can last forever and I think even some of the Brazilian member here would agree with me. He needs to have a much better season this season in my eyes. No more excuses.

I still think he should be benched for a period before we immediately ship him off, whether to give him or rest or as he's out of form, then judge him after that. Hopefully he'll focus on his Chelsea not Brazil now, if not maybe next summer send him to PSG to join Luiz

Hopefully Mourinho works on his positioning, he is either too far from the central midfielders - but doesn't link well with the striker, or drops far too deep where he can't have an attacking impact. Ends up drifting out of games

[Korea 734]

You can argue that players are assigned roles based on their strengths and we know what Oscars strengths are and creating is not currently one of them. The same way when we see Fabregas as no. 10 we'll see a completely different animal.

I believe creativity come instinctually ala Hazard, Fabregas, Mata etc. and I haven't seen anything to convince me Oscar can touch their levels of creativity. If he could, he wouldn't be asked to be so defensive.

Thats true.

However, sometimes roles are assigned for the better of the team and to let other players shine..

Perfect you bring up Cesc, because cesc was never used properly at Barca nor Spain NT. The Barca fans all wanted Cesc to be sold this season, similar to how you guys are reacting to Oscar.

Hazard for Belgium was not Hazard for Chelsea FC. Same players, 2 different roles and tactics. Obviously, hazard is their best dribbler on their team, however, the offense never/hardly ran through hazard and he was required to play a more traditional winger role, which hazard is not.

You can make a huge list of players at Barca, where their role was not to their strengths and was for a particular someone to reap most of the glory...

[bluesman2610 1,417]

You can argue that players are assigned roles based on their strengths and we know what Oscars strengths are and creating is not currently one of them. The same way when we see Fabregas as no. 10 we'll see a completely different animal.

I believe creativity come instinctually ala Hazard, Fabregas, Mata etc. and I haven't seen anything to convince me Oscar can touch their levels of creativity. If he could, he wouldn't be asked to be so defensive.

Disagree cause none of the player you mentioned have his ability to win back possession as well as Oscar in advanced positions like he does. Which again maybe Oscar strongest trait as well as tactical awareness but playing those players in the position Oscar plays leaves us vulnerable down the middle and that is part of the reason Jose chooses to play a hard work AM in there like Oscar or Willian rather than Hazard or Mata

[lionsden 4,689]

Disagree cause none of the player you mentioned have his ability to win back possession as well as Oscar in advanced positions like he does. Which again maybe Oscar strongest trait as well as tactical awareness but playing those players in the position Oscar plays leaves us vulnerable down the middle and that is part of the reason Jose chooses to play a hard work AM in there like Oscar or Willian rather than Hazard or Mata

Why waste £19m on him when Ramires could have done the same thing. This team doesn't need a defensive AM rather a creative one as creativity is our biggest issue apart from lack of quality finishers (hopefully Costa fixes that) and he adds no value to the team in that regard.

And how many top teams deploy an AM primarily for their defensive skills bar a couple of big matches in the UCL. Attacking midfielders are suppose to be creative by trade and role.

[Dion 2,476]

This is what I'm afraid of. In the 2012 season it was 'tired because of the Olympics', last season it was 'tired because of the Confederation Cup/focusing on the WC' and now next season it seems it will be 'tired/emotionally drained because of the World Cup'.

How long do the excuses go on for? How do you excuse a player for going missing for nearly half a season or never really doing enough offensively? He's still a professional football player and gets rest/extra rest like other players who have also played in tournaments. I don't think the excuses can last forever and I think even some of the Brazilian member here would agree with me. He needs to have a much better season this season in my eyes. No more excuses.

To be fair the excuse of not enough rest could go on because he didn't have the same rest as most other players since the Olympics. I'm not some sort of specialist but I think it's widely known that a player we'll usually lose a lot of muscle, fat reserves and form by the end of the season due to the amount of matches and training he goes through during the year. And he'll use the period of rest and beginning of a season to rebuild his reserves and muscles. The curve usually goes like: beginning of the season gaining form and muscle again; around mid-season they're at their peak of physical form and slowly decline until the end of the season. Oscar has been working tirelessly with little break to rest for years now. I am more disappointed with him than anyone here, seeing that I've followed him since his youth team days and I'm not seeing much improvement in offensive skills, if anything sometimes it seems he got worse. In part probably because of tougher opposition but he looks less confident too. He looks way too shy and scared on the ball. Despite any tactics or instructions he may be given I wanna see him do better offensively and this is the last season I'm willing to wait. If he doesn't perform regularly all season at least on par with the good performances he's had in the beginning of the season and under the management of RDM I'm giving up, just ship him somewhere else and try to cash on it because maybe he's just no supposed to be, at least not at Chelsea or EPL, maybe he's gonna have more luck elsewhere and he won't be hurting us or himself anymore.

His defensive work is fine and really welcome but it means jack shit when his passing, vision or creativity isn't any better than a regular defensive midfielder.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

All you guys like Lionsden and The Mak need to take a step back and look at the situation before you start jumping to conclusions unnecessarily. Oscar just completed his 2nd full year in Europe for his 3rd manager. He never had a full training camp here and clearly didn't have the fitness levels required to play in Jose's midfield for an entire season. Is that so hard to grasp? That he didn't prepare well enough for the demands of Mourinho?

He is a fantastic player who was running on E long before the season was over. If he comes back this year incapable of coping with the demands, then and only then will you have a case. Jose also benched Schurrle at the beginning of the year because he wasn't fit enough to play for Chelsea.

[The Mak 4,459]

Thats true.

However, sometimes roles are assigned for the better of the team and to let other players shine..

Perfect you bring up Cesc, because cesc was never used properly at Barca nor Spain NT. The Barca fans all wanted Cesc to be sold this season, similar to how you guys are reacting to Oscar.

Hazard for Belgium was not Hazard for Chelsea FC. Same players, 2 different roles and tactics. Obviously, hazard is their best dribbler on their team, however, the offense never/hardly ran through hazard and he was required to play a more traditional winger role, which hazard is not.

You can make a huge list of players at Barca, where their role was not to their strengths and was for a particular someone to reap most of the glory...

Disagree cause none of the player you mentioned have his ability to win back possession as well as Oscar in advanced positions like he does. Which again maybe Oscar strongest trait as well as tactical awareness but playing those players in the position Oscar plays leaves us vulnerable down the middle and that is part of the reason Jose chooses to play a hard work AM in there like Oscar or Willian rather than Hazard or Mata

I only say these thing because of the needs of the team. Chelsea's needs are different to Barcelona's etc. What was most troubling last season was our inability to break-down defences of smaller teams who sit back.

What good is a no. 10 who's 'good at winning the ball in advanced position' when a lot of the teams who face hardly attack us? Shouldn't he have something else in his locker? He is a no. 10 after all?! But even when we faced the big teams, Mourinho preferred Willian as 10! So he is ineffective at breaking down smaller teams yet when we face a team who attack us he isn't used?! Why is that? These are the difficult questions at the moment...

Overall, yes; Mourinho has asked him to perform a certain job but that does not mean he is exempt from creating hardly anything when we need it against defensive opposition.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Why waste £19m on him when Ramires could have done the same thing. This team doesn't need a defensive AM rather a creative one as creativity is our biggest issue apart from lack of quality finishers (hopefully Costa fixes that) and he adds no value to the team in that regard.

And how many top teams deploy an AM primarily for their defensive skills bar a couple of big matches in the UCL. Attacking midfielders are suppose to be creative by trade and role.

I'm confused? Did Oscar not also score 8 prem league goals on a goal starved team? I believe he was only behind Eto'o and Hazard who was also on penalty duty... You're embarrassing yourself dude.

[The Mak 4,459]

To be fair the excuse of not enough rest could go on because he didn't have the same rest as most other players since the Olympics. I'm not some sort of specialist but I think it's widely known that a player we'll usually lose a lot of muscle, fat reserves and form by the end of the season due to the amount of matches and training he goes through during the year. And he'll use the period of rest and beginning of a season to rebuild his reserves and muscles. The curve usually goes like: beginning of the season gaining form and muscle again; around mid-season they're at their peak of physical form and slowly decline until the end of the season. Oscar has been working tirelessly with little break to rest for years now. I am more disappointed with him than anyone here, seeing that I've followed him since his youth team days and I'm not seeing much improvement in offensive skills, if anything sometimes it seems he got worse. In part probably because of tougher opposition but he looks less confident too. He looks way too shy and scared on the ball. Despite any tactics or instructions he may be given I wanna see him do better offensively and this is the last season I'm willing to wait. If he doesn't perform regularly all season at least on par with the good performances he's had in beginning of the season and under the management of RDM I'm giving up, just ship him somewhere else and try to cash on it because maybe he's just no supposed to be, at least not at Chelsea or EPL, maybe he's gonna have more luck elsewhere and he won't be hurting us or himself.

His defensive work is fine and really welcome but it means jack shit when his passing, vision or creativity isn't any better than a regular defensive midfielder.

This is my view exactly. Thank you.

Some people may confuse me for an 'Oscar hater' or whatever but I'm just saying what I see. I see that his offensive deficiencies really hinder our inability to break down the smaller teams.

I always said he deserves one more season before passing complete judgement on him and I really hope he improves in the coming season; both for him and for the good of the team.

[The only place to be 11,313]

He's a great talent who has been poor for almost six months. He needs to actually step up next season or he'll be sold and we'll bring through another top attacking talent. Not worth getting to bent out of shape over.

I feel no great affinity for the lad so if he goes it's no skin off my nose. I've defended him a fair amount and now he's actually got to start producing the goods on the pitch.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

I only say these thing because of the needs of the team. Chelsea's needs are different to Barcelona's etc. What was most troubling last season was our inability to break-down defences of smaller teams who sit back.

What good is a no. 10 who's 'good at winning the ball in advanced position' when a lot of the teams who face hardly attack us? Shouldn't he have something else in his locker? He is a no. 10 after all?! But even when we faced the big teams, Mourinho preferred Willian as 10! So he is ineffective at breaking down smaller teams yet when we face a team who attack us he isn't used?! Why is that? These are the difficult questions at the moment...

Overall, yes; Mourinho has asked him to perform a certain job but that does not mean he is exempt from creating hardly anything when we need it against defensive opposition.

EVERY TEAM IN WORLD FOOTBALL STRUGGLE WITH THIS! This is a problem for EVERYONE! Remember the greatest Barca XI in the history struggling to breakdown 10 man Chelsea? If teams do play like that against us its not because our no.10 is shit, its because it extremely hard for teams to find the exact amount of space to carve them open. It usually occurs when they make a mistake, and if you don't have the striker who can bury a chance once its presented then that only compounds the problem.

You guys claim to watch a lot of football but you need to get a dose of reality. We didn't have a striker, haven't had one since Drogba. Our main problems stem from this not the players who play behind Torres, Ba, Eto,o

[The only place to be 11,313]

Also, he's got a proper striker ahead of him and two top midfielders behind him. He's got no excuses next season.

[The Mak 4,459]

EVERY TEAM IN WORLD FOOTBALL STRUGGLE WITH THIS! This is a problem for EVERYONE! Remember the greatest Barca XI in the history struggling to breakdown 10 man Chelsea? If teams do play like that against us its not because our no.10 is shit, its because it extremely hard for teams to find the exact amount of space to carve them open. It usually occurs when they make a mistake, and if you don't have the striker who can bury a chance once its presented then that only compounds the problem.

You guys claim to watch a lot of football but you need to get a dose of reality. We didn't have a striker, haven't had one since Drogba. Our main problems stem from this not the players who play behind Torres, Ba, Eto,o

Sure, but when Fabregas is moved to no. 10 in the last 10-20mins of these sorts of games there will be a reason behind it...

When did I say our inability to break teams down was solely his fault? Stop polorising my view. I am saying his much lauded his defensive abilities and inability to create chances certainly does not help such situations (which he is supposed to do as no. 10).

[lionsden 4,689]

All you guys like Lionsden and The Mak need to take a step back and look at the situation before you start jumping to conclusions unnecessarily. Oscar just completed his 2nd full year in Europe for his 3rd manager. He never had a full training camp here and clearly didn't have the fitness levels required to play in Jose's midfield for an entire season. Is that so hard to grasp? That he didn't prepare well enough for the demands of Mourinho?

He is a fantastic player who was running on E long before the season was over. If he comes back this year incapable of coping with the demands, then and only then will you have a case. Jose also benched Schurrle at the beginning of the year because he wasn't fit enough to play for Chelsea.

Ok so if he continues to clock up huge minute and mileage (and there's little indication that his minutes will slow down significantly sine he's still an integral member of the brazil team and Jose seem to rate/like him) then what? How long should we give him to start showing some consistency? honest question.

[Dion 2,476]

He has to play better this season. I think nobody can argue with that. If not by creating, then by making runs and scoring - I reckon this will become easier than ever before with Fabregas. But he has to do better offensively.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Sure, but when Fabregas is moved to no. 10 in the last 10-20mins of these sorts of games there will be a reason behind it...

When did I say our inability to break teams down was solely his fault? Stop polorising my view. I am saying his much lauded his defensive abilities and inability to create chances certainly does not help such situations (which he is supposed to do as no. 10).

IF!! Not When... You're putting the cart before the horse again.

He will create chances, not at a clip similar to Mata for example, but what you get from him at both ends makes him more valuable.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I agree to some extent, but managers actually make a hell of a difference, if any set of supporters should know that it is us.

Scolari is a awful manager, if we didn't have a group of experienced serial winners in or around their prime's he would have ruined us, as soon as Rafa showed how to counter his tactics every one else followed suit and he had no answer.

Yet despite spending about 60M more pounds, being able to mold a team in his own image, not starting in mid-season Mourinho who is a top manager, didn't accomplish any more than Rafa did. We finished third and trophyless and at the end of the season actually looked worse than we did at the end of the last season. Avram Grant had more success in the CL than Mourinho ever had with us. RDM won the CL. Managers don't matter much and certainly not a fraction of the way the media and fans treat them. Long-term successful managers are managers that are on high spending clubs.

Managers do matter in a couple of ways

1) Controlling egos. Big name managers can handle players' egos with their own. That is important.

2)There are managers whose games suite different styles of play and may be a better fit at different clubs.

3) Managers can make a little difference and at the top level that little difference could be between winning and losing.

People always blame managers for losing and give managers credit for winning but they relatively little impact, about, I would say, the impact of a squad player. It goes against everything people learn about football but football is in the dark ages still where people think teams win because of heart and will and so on. Teams win mostly because of money.

[Chelsea Legend 11 4,062]

Ok so if he continues to clock up huge minute and mileage (and there's little indication that his minutes will slow down significantly sine he's still an integral member of the brazil team and Jose seem to rate/like him) then what? How long should we give him to start showing some consistency? honest question.

He's what? 22? 23 at the beginning of the season? He should well know the rigours of the Prem and Jose's system now and hopefully this term he will pace himself accordingly. Also, perhaps management will utilize him more effectively knowing that his fitness levels aren't quite able to endure 8-9 months of high level football. Both are responsible for form not just Oscar. If he doesn't have a decent year this year I would say he isn't quite cut out for the job and we may need to look another way.

[The Mak 4,459]

IF!! Not When... You're putting the cart before the horse again.

It will happen, the same way Oscar was replaced at the end of such games with Mata in the first half of the season. I'd put money on it if I could!