🇧🇷 Oscar

[Styles 9,790]

What I like most about Oscar is that he works so hard off the ball. Even now, when he has every excuse to take his foot off the gas after a long hard season, he was pressing the Japanese players like his life depended on it. Then you add his quality on the ball and you have a potentially GREAT player if he continues to develop his game.

[22mek22 133]

Quick question, why has he lost the number 10 shirt in the Confederations Cup to Neymar?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I wish I could understand better some expressions you guys use in English.

I'm pretty worded in Portuguese and I feel like sometimes I disagree with people because the words in English are too different from portuguese or simply because of smaller differences we don't say here.

I was talking privately to one of the guys the other day and I told him Xabi Alonso and Ramires are DM's and he said they aren't.

In Brazil we call 'volante' the defensive midfield that protects the fullbacks and have mainly defensive responsibilities. We have first volante - the most defensive - and second volante - someone less defensive, but defensive nonetheless.

Xabi is one of the best in the 2nd volante position imo - because in Brazil that's what we call him. He has amazing stats - pretty perfect if you ask me - in interception, tackling and making the transition between defensive and offensive sides of the pitch.

Is that what you guys call pivot? A guy who tackles a lot, tries to recover the ball at all times and has a good pass to start a counter-attack?

Also, the deep-play you guys mean is the long passes from defense to attack?

(sorry for being an English dummy and bothering you with this stuff, but I'm here to learn too )

If that's the case, I don't see Oscar being this guy. He's way too talented to be a Xabi Alonso only and I don't think he has the defensive skills - not even close - and I don't see him developing defensively to the point of being a world class in the position (as far as I understand the position)

I think he's great as a CAM or a RW and with the tactical discipline Mourinho is going to teach him, he'll be amazing tackling the ball in the attacking field. I don't want him to go too behind, I want him to play at all times in the attack field, only going to the defensive field when there's heavy attack from the opponent. He's too light (physically) to be a good 'volante' imo although Ramires proves me wrong in that department just fine.

This terminology mostly came from FIFA and FM and I must admit it gets annoying sometimes with all the new terms. You won't find unanimous agreement on the definition of these terms, but allow me to explain what I think they mean:

A DM is the type of guy who sits in front of the back four and provides cover and eases the ball from defense to attack. Alonso is DM, and a great one at that (Although he is not a ball-winning DM and can easily be played next to another DM, but let's not get into more needless terminology!). Ramires on the other hand does not have the discipline or defensive ability or even passing technique to be a DM. He is a box-to-box midfielder, meaning he has the pace and stamina to keep making runs from his own box to the oppositions. Some would even call him an "Engine" (I know, more stupid terminology! ) which is basically someone who covers all pitch with his running like Vidal, or what De Rossi was a couple of years ago.

Now the pivot, or originally the "Double Pivot" is not a type of player like DM or B2B, but rather a position in a formation. It is a term invented solely for the 4-2-3-1 formation which was made famous by Jose's treble winning Inter. The term refers to the two players in front of the defense. The meaning of pivot is axis or what the team revolves around and double obviously because there are two of them. Originally, it was meant that those two would have interchangeable roles in the team. When one joins the attack the other has to drop deep and cover. In practice, not a lot of teams managed to implement that, us included, and you ended up with one player always staying deep and the other always going forward making it much more static than intended (and making the job of the guy who stays deep much harder).

You can choose to play whatever type of central midfielder that you want in the pivot to different effects. You can play two DMs and solidify your defense but that would give you less men in the attack and invite pressure on your back four. You can play two box-to-box players like we did when we played Rami and Lamps (to terrible results, unfortunately) but that would leave you exposed at the back since both pivot players will leave their position...etc. Ideally, what I think we are attempting to do here at Chelsea is find a pairing of DM, along side a DLP.

A DLP, or Deep-Lying Playmaker (sometimes called Regista), is the type of central midfielder who likes to drop deep to receive the ball where he will have the time and space to pick up some long passes and have more control over the tempo of the game. This term was created to describe players like Pirlo and Xavi. But for DPL to work well in a double-pivot, I think that he should also be able to defend well when needed (for example, I don't think Pirlo would work well in a 4-2-3-1) which is why a lot of fans want the club to sign someone like Van Ginkel and Modric.

That is also why I don't think Oscar should be moved to the pivot. Your analysis of this was absolutely spot on, imo. What Oscar does best for the team is his link-up play, passes and creativity in the final third. Moving him deeper would be robbing him of all that. I also don't think he has the physical or defensive ability to play in the pivot. He is decent enough when he's defending against other teams fullbacks, but can you imagine him getting stuck in with Yaya Toure for example in midfield?!

The only reason people want Oscar to play in the pivot is because attacking players like him are rated highly and get all the hype, so they want to fit all of our attacking players like Oscar and Mata and Hazard and Schurrle..etc in one formation. Sometimes I think if one of our fans was our manager we'd have a goalkeeper and 10 strikers on the pitch! (kind of what Brasil have ) Unfortunately, very few people appreciate the players that do the basic things right like covering and simple passing that despite not looking too 'fancy' are crucial to the team nonetheless.

I apologize that this came out too long, and I hope it helps. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your English or understanding of football, you just have a different perspective than the one we are used to. I hope you could teach us more stuff about the Brazilian perspective of the game like the "volante"

[Manuf 1,448]

Quick question, why has he lost the number 10 shirt in the Confederations Cup to Neymar?

$$$$$$

he doesn't have a stupid hair and won't jump around the ball like a kangaroo. he also has a private life with his wife and a child (?). doesn't bring much attention, so he's not valuable for the guys from marketing.

besides, he wears 11 at Chelsea

[whatthemata 249]

$$$$$$ he doesn't have a stupid hair and won't jump around the ball like a kangaroo. he also has a private life with his wife and a child (?). doesn't bring much attention, so he's not valuable for the guys from marketing. besides, he wears 11 at Chelsea

I'm pretty sure Oscar doesn't have a child!

[Fernando 6,585]

Really? If, in your opinion, Brazil's best player is a centre-half it speaks volumes of their World Cup chances.

Brazil have a good team, without any truly outstanding individuals. Of course the likes of Thiago, Oscar and Neymar are good players, but, in my opinion, they are not at the "outstanding" level we'd associate with Juan Mata, Gareth Bale, Ronaldo, Schweinsteiger, Messi, etc. I think that will be both Brazil's biggest benefit in 2014, as well as their biggest downfall - they don't necessarily have the players to rescue them when playing against the world's best teams, but they function very well as a unit, specifically in attack. I think they might surprise a few people but they are a long way from looking like world champions.

But as for Oscar, I absolutely adore him. His stamina is incredible, his tenacity is much overlooked and his creative vision is just jizz-worthy. Probably my favourite signing of the Abramovich era. He could be our midfield lynch-pin for the next 8/10/12 years.

Wow that big on Oscar?

I still can't believe what a fucking team we have with Oscar, Hazard, Mata and now incoming KDB.

KDB has to prove a bit in the EPL, but if his time from the bundesliga and NT is to go by, I'm already salivating!

Let's also hope another younger player can jump into this quality pool, like maybe Ake or Piazon.

[TacticalBlues 2,817]

Quick question, why has he lost the number 10 shirt in the Confederations Cup to Neymar?

Neymar requested the shirt, slightly odd, I know; but I think most people know that Oscar's more deserving of it.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Neymar requested the shirt, slightly odd, I know; but I think most people know that Oscar's more deserving of it.

Let's you know the kind of guy Oscar is to give it up without protest though!

[Jase 43,479]

Let's you know the kind of guy Oscar is to give it up without protest though!

We should also then praise Benayoun for giving the No.10 shirt to Mata as he wanted it.

[Sheva. 5,373]

We should also then praise Benayoun for giving the No.10 shirt to Mata as he wanted it.

And shoot whoever gave Benayoun that number in the first place.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Am I alone thinking Oscar should be played as our #10, with Mata on the right?

[Mr_President 404]

Am I alone thinking Oscar should be played as our #10, with Mata on the right?

I think Oscar is much better centrally, too.

Just wondering a 4-3-3 would suit him better with:

Hazard---Lukaku---Mata

Oscar---DM------KdB

A bit of a dilemma because Mata is our best player..so don't really want to shove him out wide.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

We should also then praise Benayoun for giving the No.10 shirt to Mata as he wanted it.

We should, most did

[Barbara 15,149]

This terminology mostly came from FIFA and FM and I must admit it gets annoying sometimes with all the new terms. You won't find unanimous agreement on the definition of these terms, but allow me to explain what I think they mean:

A DM is the type of guy who sits in front of the back four and provides cover and eases the ball from defense to attack. Alonso is DM, and a great one at that (Although he is not a ball-winning DM and can easily be played next to another DM, but let's not get into more needless terminology!). Ramires on the other hand does not have the discipline or defensive ability or even passing technique to be a DM. He is a box-to-box midfielder, meaning he has the pace and stamina to keep making runs from his own box to the oppositions. Some would even call him an "Engine" (I know, more stupid terminology! ) which is basically someone who covers all pitch with his running like Vidal, or what De Rossi was a couple of years ago.

Now the pivot, or originally the "Double Pivot" is not a type of player like DM or B2B, but rather a position in a formation. It is a term invented solely for the 4-2-3-1 formation which was made famous by Jose's treble winning Inter. The term refers to the two players in front of the defense. The meaning of pivot is axis or what the team revolves around and double obviously because there are two of them. Originally, it was meant that those two would have interchangeable roles in the team. When one joins the attack the other has to drop deep and cover. In practice, not a lot of teams managed to implement that, us included, and you ended up with one player always staying deep and the other always going forward making it much more static than intended (and making the job of the guy who stays deep much harder).

You can choose to play whatever type of central midfielder that you want in the pivot to different effects. You can play two DMs and solidify your defense but that would give you less men in the attack and invite pressure on your back four. You can play two box-to-box players like we did when we played Rami and Lamps (to terrible results, unfortunately) but that would leave you exposed at the back since both pivot players will leave their position...etc. Ideally, what I think we are attempting to do here at Chelsea is find a pairing of DM, along side a DLP.

A DLP, or Deep-Lying Playmaker (sometimes called Regista), is the type of central midfielder who likes to drop deep to receive the ball where he will have the time and space to pick up some long passes and have more control over the tempo of the game. This term was created to describe players like Pirlo and Xavi. But for DPL to work well in a double-pivot, I think that he should also be able to defend well when needed (for example, I don't think Pirlo would work well in a 4-2-3-1) which is why a lot of fans want the club to sign someone like Van Ginkel and Modric.

That is also why I don't think Oscar should be moved to the pivot. Your analysis of this was absolutely spot on, imo. What Oscar does best for the team is his link-up play, passes and creativity in the final third. Moving him deeper would be robbing him of all that. I also don't think he has the physical or defensive ability to play in the pivot. He is decent enough when he's defending against other teams fullbacks, but can you imagine him getting stuck in with Yaya Toure for example in midfield?!

The only reason people want Oscar to play in the pivot is because attacking players like him are rated highly and get all the hype, so they want to fit all of our attacking players like Oscar and Mata and Hazard and Schurrle..etc in one formation. Sometimes I think if one of our fans was our manager we'd have a goalkeeper and 10 strikers on the pitch! (kind of what Brasil have ) Unfortunately, very few people appreciate the players that do the basic things right like covering and simple passing that despite not looking too 'fancy' are crucial to the team nonetheless.

I apologize that this came out too long, and I hope it helps. There is absolutely nothing wrong with your English or understanding of football, you just have a different perspective than the one we are used to. I hope you could teach us more stuff about the Brazilian perspective of the game like the "volante"

so in that Inter team it was Cambiasso and Stankovic or Cambiasso and Thiago Motta (the pivot)? Got it.

Such an amazing explanation as well, Nour. You indeed are a sweetheart. Thanks a lot. I now will use the DLP thing. I liked it.

You guys are all amazing. Thanks a lot.

Neymar requested the shirt, slightly odd, I know; but I think most people know that Oscar's more deserving of it.

Let's you know the kind of guy Oscar is to give it up without protest though!

also the weight that shirt has in Brazil might be bigger than in clubs in Europe.

It's mystical here - I'm sure it's that important there as most teams don't even follow more the traditional 1-11 line up numbers.

But here in Brazil 90% of teams still use the 1-11 to their 11 most important players that will start 95% of the matches.

And the most important or glamoured or heaviest shirt is #10.

Neymar thinks that now he's playing for Barça he deserves it - although in his press conference on Camp Nou last week he said numbers didn't matter to him. LIAR!!!!!!

And this comes from someone who actually likes Neymar.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

also the weight that shirt has in Brazil might be bigger than in clubs in Europe.

It's mystical here - I'm sure it's that important there as most teams don't even follow more the traditional 1-11 line up numbers.

But here in Brazil 90% of teams still use the 1-11 to their 11 most important players that will start 95% of the matches.

And the most important or glamoured or heaviest shirt is #10.

Neymar thinks that now he's playing for Barça he deserves it - although in his press conference on Camp Nou last week he said numbers didn't matter to him. LIAR!!!!!!

And this comes from someone who actually likes Neymar.

Yeah, it's not that important in Europe certainly. The traditional ones like 9 and 7 might still be preferred, certainly the no7 shirt at Manchester United used to carry a certain level of weight but after Ronaldo they kind of disregarded it by giving it to Owen and then Valencia lmao. I mean we gave Bhoularouz the number 9, when we was a right-back

I think now more players prefer unique numbers to be a bit more memorable or they're significant to them, like Terry with 26 for example.

[Barbara 15,149]

btw I'm meant it's NOT that important in Europe.

I eat 'nots' and 'nos' for lunch, dinner, snack, etc... I always drop them from my sentences.

And yeah, @LDN Blue it seems like European players prefer to have their special numbers these days.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

so in that Inter team it was Cambiasso and Stankovic or Cambiasso and Thiago Motta (the pivot)? Got it.

Yes at Inter was Cambiasso and Zanetti as first choice with Stankovic and Thiago Motta as second choice. Although what Jose implemented back then was a very 'customized' 4-2-3-1. It was a work of tactical genius.

And I'm glad I could help

[Barbara 15,149]

Yes at Inter was Cambiasso and Zanetti as first choice with Stankovic and Thiago Motta as second choice. Although what Jose implemented back then was a very 'customized' 4-2-3-1. It was a work of tactical genius.

And I'm glad I could help

Oh don't mention our captain. Javier Zanetti is probably one of the players I've loved the most in my life.

Currently he's my most loved player in activity.

He's my idol!

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Oh don't mention our captain. Javier Zanetti is probably one of the players I've loved the most in my life.

Currently he's my most loved player in activity.

He's my idol!

A Brazilian loving an Argentinian player? Now I've seen it all!

[Barbara 15,149]

A Brazilian loving an Argentinian player? Now I've seen it all!

True, but my love for my clubs will always be much bigger than my love for the NT. I don't even love the NT at this point.

And just to make it clear, by default, I can't stand Argentines

Unless they prove otherwise - but they normally fail on doing so