Barbara 15,149 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Asking questions is the basis of knowledge. I'm striving for intellectual perfection and you are a tool in achieving that.thanks... being called a tool feels great @LDN Blue, @Dy-lan, actually my very first post after the match in this thread I said I agree with the critics of him that complain about consistency (I'm one of them btw) and that he needs to play like today way more often.I may have lost those stupid misplaced passes today. I thought he was okay passing... His first half against Newcastle though was a horror show, one I won't be able to forget any time soon LDN Blue and Dy-lan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyalBlues 4,050 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 But I can also agree to some degree with the faction of fans that consider him fairly frustrating at times. The reason his misplaced passes (whether its 5 or 11 in a match) drive ppl mad at times is because they are usually relatively "simple" passes to make (for a player of his quality) and often come during a potentially good attack build up.hmm, why Willian's name pop up in my head, when reading that. Dy-lan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post! remains of the day 564 Posted January 18, 2015 Popular Post! Share Posted January 18, 2015 I guess the problem I have with most of these criticisms of Oscar is that too much significance and value is being placed on something that doesn’t really make a huge difference to the team’s success when looked at in the larger context of the player’s overall contributions. Oscar’s passing can be frustratingly sloppy sometimes, that’s a fair assessment but on the other hand his productivity has been mightily impressive. So while Oscar might be ”failing” in one or two aspects of his role as a number 10, he’s also highly performing in many other aspects of his job. The positives very much outweigh the negatives so I’m confused why so much more importance and value is being placed on him misplacing 10 or so passes than on his excellent output this season. I just think that there’s something very frivolous in complaining about the sloppiness of a player’s passing when that player's direct contributions to 13 goals in the league has helped the team maintain a title challenge. Ultimately, his input in 13 goals is so much more valuable to the team’s success than him being able to complete 85% of his passes in every game.People have every right to criticize him, but others also have every right to say that these people criticizing Oscar are nitpicking. 23 years old, 6 goals and 7 assists, and here we are complaining that he routinely misplaces 5-10 easy passes, hmmm...I saw @Barbara's post stating that Oscar's pass completion rate was 81% but I'd be interested to see his numbers for attempted key passes, that is his stats with the routine passes removed. My feeling is that his numbers would fall dramatically. I agree of course that no one is going to have high completion rates for such passes; they are challenging, space is limited, time is short, angles are tight and defenders are everywhere. Even so, a difference maker, a player ready to make a full contribution to his side's attacking play, should be succeeding with more of those passes than an average player might. Eden does, Cesc does, Oscar does not. Indeed my impression (not statistically verified I admit) is that Oscar almost always fails with such passes.I realise that, in writing so forthrightly about this, I'm going to get pegged as disliking Oscar. That really is not how I see myself at all, but I'm sad to say that I virtually never see performances from Oscar which convince me that he is is the right man for the Chelsea job or even any which give me hope that this situation will change.Well, in an ideal world yes but in the real world you have average players who are excellent passers of the ball and excellent players who are average passers. Nuances like that exists. Assessing a player's contribution to his sides's attacking play only by how high his pass completion is seems like a very skewed way of judging a player's talent. DYC., seanptmiller, RoyalBlues and 11 others 14 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dion 2,476 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 While I think the passing thing is being overblown given the recent contributions Oscar has given to the team, I also believe those frustrations are completely acceptable because we're talking about pro footballers here. They eat, sleep, and breath football, it is reasonable to expect them not to misplace easy passes that even amateurs wouldn't, especially if they're misplacing them in a regular basis. It's just a matter of frustrated expectations.If a player can't execute 40-yard passes consistently he won't get bashed for it, maybe for trying them too often when it's clear those are not his thing. But basic passing is just something every player is supposed to have, and if a player is struggling at that he'd better work on it because that's a really serious issue. Whether it is technical or mental it must be fixed as soon as possible, especially when we're talking about a young player. DYC. and The Chels 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DYC. 7,542 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Even if he beat Shurrle to the 5th goal and scored his hat-trick, his overall contribution would have been poor.So, so harsh LDN. Playing some poor passes can never turn your overall contribution poor in a performance like Oscar's yesterday.Ultimately, his input in 13 goals is so much more valuable to the team’s success than him being able to complete 85% of his passes in every game.Found myself nodding when I read this. (Funny thing is, Oscar's average pass completion rate is 84% according to WhoScored.) remains of the day, Blue-in-me-Veins, zolayes and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLion. 21,491 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Oscar isn't the most technically competent midfielder. That's why Fabregas is in the side. Oscar is an absolute work-horse and that's his role in the side. zolayes, pgleo and kellzfresh 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFC888 219 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Oscar isn't the most technically competent midfielder. That's why Fabregas is in the side. Oscar is an absolute work-horse and that's his role in the side. Very good point. Something a lot of the detractors seem to gloss over is the concept of roles within a football team. The success of great teams comes from 11 men playing their individual roles, and Oscar does his very well as far as I'm concerned. BlueLion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post! kellzfresh 7,229 Posted January 18, 2015 Popular Post! Share Posted January 18, 2015 People forget oscar is just 23. Interesting stat from Jake Cohen on twitter.Jake Cohen @JakeFCohen In Lampard's age 23 season, he had 7 PL goals + assists (5G 2A). In Oscar's age 23 season, he already has 13 PL goals + assists (6G 7A). Jaden, Barbara, CeleryFC and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CFC888 219 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 People forget oscar is just 23. Interesting stat from Jake Cohen on twitter.Jake Cohen @JakeFCohenIn Lampard's age 23 season, he had 7 PL goals + assists (5G 2A). In Oscar's age 23 season, he already has 13 PL goals + assists (6G 7A).They sure do forget that. In a funny kind of way, scoring those 2 goals against Juventus (including the GotY) and being Man of the Match in his first ever start for Chelsea (not to mention plenty of other strong performances so early in his career) has to an extent burdened him a bit with unnecessarily and unfairly high expectations for a player so young.I love that stat from Jake Cohen, I think it tells you everything you need to know about how far this boy can go in the future. kellzfresh and manpe 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Oscar isn't the most technically competent midfielder. That's why Fabregas is in the side. Oscar is an absolute work-horse and that's his role in the side. That I believe people can see but what can't be comprehended is that, how he be so average at short distance passing? Sometimes, he couldn't even get a five-yard pass to someone right. stroey, The Mak and Amblève. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueLion. 21,491 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 That I believe people can see but what can't be comprehended is that, how he be so average at short distance passing? Sometimes, he couldn't even get a five-yard pass to someone right.I call it "Ramires Syndrome", which we can safely ascertain is contagious. The Mak and Viper22 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababoom 4,478 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 IMO he was excellent yesterday, people are nitpicking saying he misplaced a few passes... so? Cesc and Hazard has those days as well, it happens. I just hope he stays consistent now. Barbara, zolayes and CFC888 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 IMO he was excellent yesterday, people are nitpicking saying he misplaced a few passes... so? Cesc and Hazard has those days as well, it happens. I just hope he stays consistent now.But with Oscar, it tends to happen more often than Hazard and/or Fabregas. stroey, The Chels, The Mak and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababoom 4,478 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 But with Oscar, it tends to happen more often than Hazard and/or Fabregas.I know, but if he's contributing with goals who can complain? BlueLion. and RoyalBlues 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post! Barbara 15,149 Posted January 18, 2015 Popular Post! Share Posted January 18, 2015 I know, but if he's contributing with goals who can complain? The ones who demanded him to be the end product at age 23 Viper22, BlueLion., bababoom and 4 others 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I know, but if he's contributing with goals who can complain? That's like saying players can just ignore their responsibilities as long as they score. Oh, why do we even bother complaining/discussing about issues with certain players' performance then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gilvorak 3,734 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 No one is saying he should be exempt from criticism just that the abuse he gets is completely over the top. Give me a few sloppy passes over the countless vital goals and assists he's given us this season. The major gripe with him last season was mainly his consistency and lack of vision there's been a distinct improvement in that side of his game this season.Someone honestly claimed Oscar's technically deficient? What a load of bullshit.Funny how Willian, the most toothless Brazilian of all time is more loved not only on this forum but the matchgoing fans. Same Willian that's 4 years older and in his prime.EDIT: Anyone have the time to do a stat by stat comparison of Oscar to other attacking midfielders in his age group? e.g. Eriksen, De Bruyne, Coutinho, James etc. Pretty certain he comes out on top. What a season. Blue-in-me-Veins, RoyalBlues and bababoom 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bababoom 4,478 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 That's like saying players can just ignore their responsibilities as long as they score. Oh, why do we even bother complaining/discussing about issues with certain players' performance then?lol no it's not... my point is how the hell can you criticize him so strongly for misplacing a few passes? he scored two goals ffs and on top of that caused Swansea a lot of trouble with his pressing. RoyalBlues and Barbara 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase 43,479 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 lol no it's not... my point is how the hell can you criticize him so strongly for misplacing a few passes? he scored two goals ffs and on top of that caused Swansea a lot of trouble with his pressing. Criticize him strongly? Hardly. Was just stating the obvious issue with Oscar in a broader sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
didierforever 7,349 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 EDIT: Anyone have the time to do a stat by stat comparison of Oscar to other attacking midfielders in his age group? e.g. Eriksen, De Bruyne, Coutinho, James etc. Pretty certain he comes out on top. What a season.Player Appearances Goals Assists Minutes Minutes/(goals+assists)oscar 26 7 7 1922 137eriksen 26 8 4 2071 172james 29 10 8 2130 118KDB 25 6 13 2251 118muller 23 11 9 1749 88gotze 22 11 4 1641 109isco 30 4 10 2044 146 (though to be fair he has played a very withdrawn role this season after modric's injury)koke 28 3 15 2456 136so stats-wise, he is only better than eriksen. Bir_CFC and The Skipper 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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