AVB gone to Zenit

[Jase 43,479]

How he went about things? He chose his best team and set the tactics for his team. The nerve on that guy!

Choosing the team and setting the tactics was the plan. The execution of the whole thing was wrong, from the man-management to the team management!

I don't give a shit why the players decided to be cunts, they are getting paid a whole lot of money when they consciously and deliberately put their best interest ahead of that of the team, they take the blame.

I'm sorry. The relationship between a manager and the players should be a two-way relationship and not one way in today's modern game. A manager just can't come in and demand respect immediately without earning it by managing the players in the right manner. Players should respect the manager yes but so should the manager respect the players as well.

[wj818 25]

AVB was hired by one of the top teams in BPL, whereas RDM never got one. Tht just proves the point tht AVB>RDM.

[Rmpr 8,977]

That is my opinion. To say I don't "know anything about football" - that is disrespectful. It's a difference in opinion. Deal with it.

First I havent said that, just read the post again if you like (or you can read your own quote if you think I edited it).

Second, one (see, not you in specific) that think Pep hasnt had a huge impact on Barcelona certainly doesnt know much about football. It is just the truth.

Also, you or anyone else (including me) can all have teir opinions. That doesnt take away the fact our opinion can be terribly wrong!

[Rmpr 8,977]

No. My point is calling him a great manager at the moment is over-stretching it. He may have won 3 trophies in the space of 4 seasons but as Alex pointed out, he only had 2 full seasons at a club so far. How can you say with definite that he's a great manager just over this short period of time? I mean we all banged about how a manager, team, player(s) should be judged over a long period of time but why is AVB being called a great manager so fast? He still needs to prove himself over the long term to even be considered one. If he wins 5-6 trophies over the 8-10 years, then fair enough. Maybe you can call him that. But if he win like only 1-2 trophies or even none in that same period, then would you still be calling him a great manager?

If he continues to show his quality, I will continue to call him great no matter if he wins trophies or not. A manager can win a tournament doing a lot of mistakes and so can a manager lose a tournament doing absolutely everything right!

I only talked about trophies because you started with the CV thing. However, a manager doesnt become great only after winning a trophy, he has to be already great before. The fact someone is great at what it does takes them to glory and not the other way around.

For instance, imagine Neymar takes Brazil to be World Cup winners in 2014. That doesnt mean he will only be great after winning it. It is not how it works. Neymar had to be already great before, even if the recognition comes after the trophy.

The same applies to Mourinho, he is not great because he won things everywhere. But he won many things exactly because he is more than great.

[Jase 43,479]

If he continues to show his quality, I will continue to call him great no matter if he wins trophies or not. A manager can win a tournament doing a lot of mistakes and so can a manager lose a tournament doing absolutely everything right!

I only talked about trophies because you started with the CV thing. However, a manager doesnt become great only after winning a trophy, he has to be already great before. The fact someone is great at what it does takes them to glory and not the other way around.

That is down more to subjective view as opposed to an objective one. As said before, AVB is a manager with great potential but he's nowhere a great manager yet. He has the qualities but still yet to prove himself and be successful in any way over a long period of time. Can understand people like the qualities and him as a manager but at the same time, these people are completely overrating those qualities at the moment.

[Tomo 21,733]

Villas-Boas has the potential to be a good manager. Guardiola, well, the jury is still out on him until he goes and challenges himself somewhere.

Tbh i think Guardiola is already world class, it's easy to forget Barca were not the best team in the world when he took over, they were in dissaray. 18 points behind Madrid and 10 behind Villareal. They lacked togetherness, and apart from Iniesta and Messi, none of their team had a good season.

Guardiola came in, got rid of Deco and Ronaldinho, told Eto'o to buck his ideas up and built the team around Iniesta, Xavi and Messi, a decision that is still paying dividence to this day. In 07/08 they were stagnating, Pep was the shot in the arm they needed to get back and then better their standards of 04-06.

What impresses me most about Pep is he doesn't stand still, Henry, Eto'o and Messi scored over 100 between them in 08-09 but that doesn't stop him letting Eto'o go and dropping Henry for Pedro, because Eto'o and especially Henry were getting on and eventually it would have caught up with them, so he did changed it around before it got to that.

Barca are as good as they currently are because of Pep, not the other way round.

No he failed to do it because Lampard and co decided to be absolute cunts and put their own best interest ahead of that of the club. Now AVB made a lot of mistakes tactically but ultimately he, and the club, failed because of the players. How is it the manager's fault if Frank and Ashley start wasting time when we are losing to Everton?!

I'm sorry but I am very 'old-fashioned' about this player-manager relationship and for me, it is very simple: If you are professional football player getting paid 100+k/wk to play football you have to do your job which is to shut up and do as your manager says and if you think you be in the starting lineup you work your ass off and prove it in training!

Ofcourse their is that element to a certain extent, but if you literally get treated and talked to like shit your going to find it hard, it wasn't just Lampard and Cole that hated him, it was most of the club right through to the reception lady.

I think we cocked up just as much as well, we gave him to much control from day one, if we given him the same brief we gave Carlo, then this might have worked out differently.

[Rmpr 8,977]

That is down more to subjective view as opposed to an objective one. As said before, AVB is a manager with great potential but he's nowhere a great manager yet. He has the qualities but still yet to prove himself and be successful in any way over a long period of time. Can understand people like the qualities and him as a manager but at the same time, these people are completely overrating those qualities at the moment.

That is actually true, but I still disagree though!

[Jase 43,479]

That is actually true, but I still disagree though!

Meh.

[Jase 43,479]

André Villas-Boas on brink of losing Tottenham Hotspur job

[Tomo 21,733]

Whats happening at Tottenham now is living proof that spending large amounts of money doesn't guarantee anything.

Ofcourse it will help get you a few extra results due to the superior individual quality (like it did for Hughes at City and even now at Spurs) but to build a consistent winning side, you need a lot more than just money.

[Jase 43,479]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2513987/Andre-Villas-Boas-best-thing--elses-fault--MARTIN-SAMUEL.html

Martin Samuel on AVB in Daily Mail. Good piece.

[OneMoSalah 8,778]

Lol Spurs sacking AVB would be worse than when we did it. He still has to find his best team, plenty of players need to adapt. Its funny he went from last season being a great manager for Spurs, breaking the points total to a failure by the sounds of it now haha, stupid Spurs fans.

[The_Flash 1,144]

That's always the way like Holloway is brilliant he has brought Crystal palace into the PL then thy lose and he's out.

Managers need time.

The only thing slightly worrying me is who you think will be sacked first Jose or AVB? I would hope neither.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2513987/Andre-Villas-Boas-best-thing--elses-fault--MARTIN-SAMUEL.html

Martin Samuel on AVB in Daily Mail. Good piece.

'Good piece'? Was that sarcasm?

[zolayes 14,489]

Samuel can at times be good but he can also be a smug pretentious bastard ,,,, more often the latter than the former

[Jase 43,479]

'Good piece'? Was that sarcasm?

I supposed it depends on how you view the context and perceive AVB...

[Sidzeret 2,257]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2513987/Andre-Villas-Boas-best-thing--elses-fault--MARTIN-SAMUEL.html

Martin Samuel on AVB in Daily Mail. Good piece.

"Tottenham had sold Elvis Presley and bought the Beatles was the claim. Except this lot look more like the fab four pastiche group the Rutles — if Nasty, Stig, Dirk and Barry had all decided to swap instruments five minutes before the gig."

Atleast he got the jokes right.

[KevinAshburner 1,270]

it shows how stupid management is in football today. I could easily see that AVB does not suit ENGLAND-ENGLISH FOOTBALL.FC Porto and Portugese Premier League is not that great compared to EPL. I could see and tell that AVB would fail at CHELSEA and TOTTENHAM. AVB was not proven yet as a Manager at ENGLISH football system.