Politics & Stuff

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

The evil that the US and it's allies in the area created. But you have to say, this is very similar to the Muslims and Christians having to evacuate most of Palestine in 1948 or get executed, right?

You can't blame the West for all the ills of Humanity. The Americans didn't make these people act like barbarians. They've abused the liberty of Saddam's demise to kill, murder, rape and mutilate.

[Dion 2,476]

And where is Hamas in all of this? Hamas is the main conspirator pulling the strings behind the scenes. I've already posted their charter which says their goal is to obliterate Israel from existence. This is why they continually shoot rockets into Israel to kill civilians and in hope of a retaliation from the IDF. This is how this new conflict as well as the others began. Hamas is a very radical and evil organisation and they are the problem and not the solution. The fact that they were "democratically" elected is proven by history to be irrelevant. Even Hitler and the Nazi's were democratically elected and the rest is history. Fatah at least recognizes Isreal's right to exist. I think at least this is a much better alternative to Hamas whose ideology is fueled by Jew hatred. They will never be at peace with the Jews because they don't want to. The Palestinian's are just collateral damage the same way the German citizens were under the Nazi regime.

All the problem with what you're saying is that collateral damage implies unintended murder of civilians, which doesn't seem to be the case according to the information brought onto this thread. What it looks like to be occurring is Israel using Hamas as an excuse to indiscriminately kill palestinians. Their actions doesn't match their words. If they were truly concerned about Hamas only, this wouldn't be their course of action. What appears to be happening is that they want to wipe palestinians from the face of the planet and Hamas is giving them "justification" to do so.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

All the problem with what you're saying is that collateral damage implies unintended murder of civilians, which doesn't seem to be the case according to the information brought onto this thread. What it looks like to be occurring is Israel using Hamas as an excuse to indiscriminately kill palestinians. Their actions doesn't match their words. If they were truly concerned about Hamas only, this wouldn't be their course of action. What appears to be happening is that they want to wipe palestinians from the face of the planet and Hamas is giving them "justification" to do so.

Wow, just WOW. Most of the "information" on the thread is from people that have vested interest to this. You can't separate the religious aspect from what is happening in Gaza. There is both religious and political aspect and the former outweighs the latter. Iisten to the Arabic and what Hamas leaders are saying not any "information" from football forums. Now, you can choose to live in la la land and bury your head in the sand, that's fine. Enjoy yourself.

[Barbara 15,149]

My knowledge is very limited and while I have absolutely NOTHING against the religious Muslim and I definitely think that the situation in Israel doesn't have a right and a wrong side for a long time, they're both wrong at this point and time, it's easy to find people in the Western not sympathizing at all with the civilians being killed... But that's not only why I think there's such an 'anti' feeling towards Muslims in many places in the Western. That's only part of it, I'm not even sure if that's the biggest part of it, but I'm positive the Muslim involvement in many wars and conflicts in many other countries are one of the big reasons people can't be sympathetic to them.

Yes, the situation in Israel is impossible to choose a side imo - they're both equally guilty at this point (at least from my little informed perspective), but what to say about other countries where some sort of authoritarianism Muslim organization or radical wing wants to have the power, to control everything and whoever disagrees is in the middle of the cross fire?

Everyone (hopefully) can separate the normal religious person from those extremist/terrorist/violent believers, but they - the bad guys let's call them like that - give a really bad reputation to Muslim in general - even when we know most people are peaceful and lucid in their views and takes and won't resort to violence. It just gives the whole community a bad name...

So when you see Muslims associated with wars and conflicts in Syria, Egypt, Middle Eastern countries, African countries, etc... is really easy for the neutral person just have a bad impression about them. I think the Western media escalates things a lot and The Jew community capitalizes on a bad situation for the Muslim... that's why so many people in the specific conflict with Israel are pro-Jews. A huge mistake imo, but it's easy to understand why it happens when the first thing many people at this side of the globe associate with Muslims is violence whether Israel is involved or not.

Things couldn't be more distorted by how they are currently imo, starting with the idea that a God - whoever that God is - want people to die and be in war because of his name. Confusing and distorted.

edit: I deleted an important part of the post trying to shorten it. I think Western media is biased in the Israel x Palestine conflict and it influences people. But the other conflicts involving part of the Muslim community - the crazy ones - do no favor for their name...

edit 2: I am sympathetic to everyone who dies and have their loved ones killed, I don't care which side of the conflict that is, a minority has no right to destroy whole countries - physically or emotionally - because of their beliefs, whether they're political or religious.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Barbara

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

My knowledge is very limited and while I have absolutely NOTHING against the religious Muslim and I definitely think that the situation in Israel doesn't have a right and a wrong side for a long time, they're both wrong at this point and time... But that's not only why I think there's such an 'anti' feeling towards Muslims in many places in the Western. That's only part of it, I'm not even sure if that's the biggest part of it, but I'm positive the Muslim involvement in many wars and conflicts in many other countries are one of the big reasons people can't be sympathetic to them.

Yes, the situation in Israel is impossible to choose a side imo - they're both equally guilty at this point (at least from my little informed perspective), but what to say about other countries where some sort of authoritarianism Muslim organization or radical wing wants to have the power, to control everything and whoever disagrees is in the middle of the cross fire?

Everyone (hopefully) can separate the normal religious person from those extremist/terrorist/violent believers, but they - the bad guys let's call them like that - give a really bad reputation to Muslim in general - even when we know most people are peaceful and lucid in their views and takes and won't resort to violence. It just gives the whole community a bad name...

So when you see Muslims associated with wars and conflicts in Syria, Egypt, Middle Eastern countries, African countries, etc... is really easy for the neutral person just have a bad impression about them. I think the Western media escalates things a lot and The Jew community capitalizes on a bad situation for the Muslim... that's why so many people in the specific conflict with Israel are pro-Jews. A huge mistake imo, but it's easy to understand why it happens when the first thing many people at this side of the globe associate with Muslims is violence whether Israel is involved or not.

Things couldn't been more distorted by how they are currently imo, starting with the idea that a God - whoever that God is - want people to die and be in war because of his name. Confusing and distorted.

Palestinians are Muslims, Christian and Jews. Currently Muslims and Christian minority. But all the media does is remove the word Palestinians and put the word Hamas. Like they tried to remove the word Lebanese and replace it with Hezbollah. and Egypt with Muslim brotherhood. It is purely political and are run by a political ideology called Zionism. An ideology that most religious Jew see as no Jewish and refuse it. I am not talking about ordinary religious people only, but Rabbis.

[Barbara 15,149]

Palestinians are Muslims, Christian and Jews. Currently Muslims and Christian minority. But all the media does is remove the word Palestinians and put the word Hamas. Like they tried to remove the word Lebanese and replace it with Hezbollah. and Egypt with Muslim brotherhood. It is purely political and are run by a political ideology called Zionism. An ideology that most religious Jew see as no Jewish and refuse it. I am not talking about ordinary religious people only, but Rabbis.

so are you trying to tell me that Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya and many other countries that have been through hell with their internal politics are in this situation because of a group of Jewish rabbis? Now that's new information. I thought it was an extremist and authoritarian wing of Muslims... at least as far as I've read the info media spread here Jewish were never even mentioned.... I'm absolutely surprised by this revelation.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To Mohamed.

And what is the name of the Ideology that causes Hamas to say in their charter that they want to obliterate Israel? Or are all Israel "Zionists"? Why do we hear in the marches "death to Israel", "death to America"? Or Arab leaders saying "Zionists are descendants of apes and pigs"? This has nothing to do with anti-Zionism but it's pure antisemitism. There is NOTHING wrong with being proud of your homeland or culture which is what Zionism means. Jewish Rabbis? LOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Religious_Zionism

But unfortunately, anti- Zionism is now the new antisemetism and Jew hatred.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

so are you trying to tell me that Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Libya and many other countries that have been through hell with their internal politics are in this situation because of a group of Jewish rabbis? Now that's new information. I thought it was an extremist and authoritarian wing of Muslims... at least as far as I've read the info media spread here Jewish were never even mentioned.... I'm absolutely surprised by this revelation.

No, I didn't say it is because of Jewish Rabbis. It is because of a political movement called Zionism. A movement that started about 100 years ago and most religious rabbis actually hate. There is a big difference bewteen Judaisim and Zionism. One is a faith, respected, and the other is a political movement. There is a book called protocols of the elder zions. Check it out. There are also many books and researches (by Israeli Jews), that show how zionism is against Judaism.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To Mohamed.

And what is the name of the Ideology that causes Hamas to say in their charter that they want to obliterate Israel? Or are all Israel "Zionists"? Why do we hear in the marches "death to Israel", "death to America"? Or Arab leaders saying "Zionists are descendants of apes and pigs"? This has nothing to do with anti-Zionism but it's pure antisemitism. There is NOTHING wrong with being proud of your homeland or culture which is what Zionism means. Jewish Rabbis? LOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Religious_Zionism

But unfortunately, anti- Zionism is now the new antisemetism and Jew hatred.

Seriosly, help yourself mate and read. You will have a case. But to throw sentences around and claim they are facts on your personal opinion basis, that is lame.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Look at this video. This is what Hamas is doing to children!!! Even the Nazi's never used such evil and wicked techniques to brainwash their youth. How can anyone blame Jewish Rabbis for this insanity? Oh, please. It's time we get real and confront the real issues.

It's easy to bash Israel and the "Zionists" but they are only protecting their citizens from gaza rockets that have one purpose, to kill. Just this year alone, they've fired thousands of rockets into civilian areas in Israel. It's only through Israel's Iron Dome that they are able to protect themselves from this.. Firing rockets into enemy territory is a declaration of war

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2014

Imagine this scenario. Mexico shares borders with the United States. Now, imagine Mexico firing enemy rockets into the US to kill civilians, into Texas and California for example. The president will send military troops to Mexico and the entire country will be leveled to the ground in a few weeks. No country will put up with that bullshit.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ To Mohamed.

And what is the name of the Ideology that causes Hamas to say in their charter that they want to obliterate Israel? Or are all Israel "Zionists"? Why do we hear in the marches "death to Israel", "death to America"? Or Arab leaders saying "Zionists are descendants of apes and pigs"? This has nothing to do with anti-Zionism but it's pure antisemitism. There is NOTHING wrong with being proud of your homeland or culture which is what Zionism means. Jewish Rabbis? LOL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism#Religious_Zionism

But unfortunately, anti- Zionism is now the new antisemetism and Jew hatred.

Keep laughing

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

No, I didn't say it is because of Jewish Rabbis. It is because of a political movement called Zionism. A movement that started about 100 years ago and most religious rabbis actually hate. There is a big difference bewteen Judaisim and Zionism. One is a faith, respected, and the other is a political movement. There is a book called protocols of the elder zions. Check it out. There are also many books and researches (by Israeli Jews), that show how zionism is against Judaism.

WOW, WOW, WOW. Are you aware this book is a WELL known forgery written by Russian antisemites in order to justify pogroms in Europe?

Hitler used this FORGERY to justify his Jew hatred and then eventually to justify the Holocaust. The fact that you even suggest this book to Barbara is unbelievable. Wow, wow, wow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protocols_of_the_Elders_of_Zion

Is there any sane, respected scholar that says this book wasn't a forgery? It's scary you think that's legitimate, mate. Seriously.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

WOW, WOW, WOW. Are you aware this book is a WELL known forgery written by Russian antisemites in order to justify pogroms in Europe?

Hitler used this FORGERY to justify his Jew hatred and then eventually to justify the Holocaust. The fact that you even suggest this book to Barbara is unbelievable. Wow, wow, wow.

LOL, you are unbelievable.

[Dion 2,476]

Wow, just WOW. Most of the "information" on the thread is from people that have vested interest to this. You can't separate the religious aspect from what is happening in Gaza. There is both religious and political aspect and the former outweighs the latter. Iisten to the Arabic and what Hamas leaders are saying not any "information" from football forums. Now, you can choose to live in la la land and bury your head in the sand, that's fine. Enjoy yourself.

And the information spread by western media has no vested interest whatsoever? That's big news to me. Of course I know there are religious aspects to the conflict. If there wasn't, probably the Isreali state wouldn't even have be founded where it has been founded. Holy land and all that.

Imagine this scenario. Mexico shares borders with the United States. Now, imagine Mexico firing enemy rockets into the US to kill civilians, into Texas and California for example. The president will send military troops to Mexico and the entire country will be leveled to the ground in a few weeks. No country will put up with that bullshit.

Let's imagine another scenario. UN decides half of Mexico now belongs to the US. No Mexican will put up with that bullshit, they'll fire rockets into the US. Let's not ignore the reason that started the conflict.

[Kieran. 6,317]

Lmao, the amount of times idiots come into this thread screaming "HAMAS IS BAD!!"

No shit you idiots.

[Rmpr 8,977]

You can put a solid argument any time you can mate

#owned

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

#owned

I have to admit, my feelings were hurt. LOL

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100265697/will-muslim-fanatics-ever-tire-of-the-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion/

Yep, let's justify Jew hatred by recommending a FORGERY written by Mathieu Golovinski, a Russian antisemite who worked for the incredibly antisemitic Okhrana, well known for organizing pogroms (Jewish lynchings!)

If this is the type of NONSENSE that is promoted in the middle-east, then I'm quite frankly, disgusted. Why not recommend to her Mein Kampf while you're at it? Or this instead:

PATHETIC and disappointing, though I'm not surprised.

[Rmpr 8,977]

I have to admit, my feelings were hurt. LOL

LOL. I bet you were. Who wouldnt want to have the privilege to call him mate!

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100265697/will-muslim-fanatics-ever-tire-of-the-protocols-of-the-elders-of-zion/

Yep, let's justify Jew hatred by recommending a FORGERY written by Mathieu Golovinski, a Russian antisemite who worked for the incredibly antisemitic Okhrana, well known for organizing pogroms (Jewish lynchings!)

If this is the type of NONSENSE that is promoted in the middle-east, then I'm quite frankly, disgusted. Why not recommend to her Mein Kampf while you're at it? Or this instead:

PATHETIC and disappointing, though I'm not surprised.

How about the Avi Shaim? Oh self hating Israeli Jew. emmmm Maybe Norman Finkelstein? self hating jew. Shlomo Sand, Naom Chomsky? Self hating Israeli Jews. You are pathetic and that is not a surprise.

P.S. There are many more of self hating Israeli Jews that can answer you. READ

Edited July 24, 2014 by Mohammed Seif