Politics & Stuff

[The Skipper 20,609]

I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Hamas, I mean I sympathise with both sides because there are casualties in both sides but this whole ground offence that Israel have started... I fear for the worst. Israel has no problem in defending itself obviously but innocent Palestinians will get hurt because Hamas will definitely retaliate.

Although the Israeli government aren't exactly angels themselves, and although they have committed and over exaggerated some attacks or retaliations on Gaza, Hamas is truly not helping Palestine's situation here. It is a true shame that they are the major power in Gaza, because IMO even if Israel tried to lower its stance a little bit in a bid for peace, Hamas would probably use that as an incentive to attack and weaken Israel. I can sort of understand the Israeli army's strong stance on Gaza, because Hamas are truly an awful, awful organisation. Hamas want to destroy Israel, don't forget. It's sort of natural for Israel to be defending themselves (even if it has been too excessive in quite a few cases).

I can sort of see what Israel are trying to do, but surely there must be different, more diplomatic ways to get rid of Hamas? I wish there was. It's looking like aggressive means by the Israel army's might be the only way to stop Hamas. I hope there is another way though. I just have a feeling something very bad on a more global scale is going to happen in the near future...

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

I'm not pro-Israeli or pro-Hamas, I mean I sympathise with both sides because there are casualties in both sides but this whole ground offence that Israel have started... I fear for the worst. Israel has no problem in defending itself obviously but innocent Palestinians will get hurt because Hamas will definitely retaliate.

Although the Israeli government aren't exactly angels themselves, and although they have committed and over exaggerated some attacks or retaliations on Gaza, Hamas is truly not helping Palestine's situation here. It is a true shame that they are the major power in Gaza, because IMO even if Israel tried to lower its stance a little bit in a bid for peace, Hamas would probably use that as an incentive to attack and weaken Israel. I can sort of understand the Israeli army's strong stance on Gaza, because Hamas are truly an awful, awful organisation. Hamas want to destroy Israel, don't forget. It's sort of natural for Israel to be defending themselves (even if it has been too excessive in quite a few cases).

I can sort of see what Israel are trying to do, but surely there must be different, more diplomatic ways to get rid of Hamas? I wish there was. It's looking like aggressive means by the Israel army's might be the only way to stop Hamas. I hope there is another way though. I just have a feeling something very bad on a more global scale is going to happen in the near future...

No matter how brutal the Israelis attacked Gaza in the past, Hamas remains. Actually Hamas and other groups get stronger. Last in 2008 hamas didn't have rockets that can reach Tel Aviv. Now they do. As time progresses, hamas and other militant groups will only get stronger unless the Palestinians themselves decide to remove Hamas. The Palestinians see nothing good coming from hamas or Israel. The Israeli Government is making their lives miserable from day to another. More poverty, more injustices, ....etc. If that approach was the right approach, it would have worked in the past against Lebanon, Palestinians and others including Egypt. But if History tells us something, this kind of action will only make things worse for Israel on the long run. Israel has to defend itself, but the 80% civilian deaths does not translate to that. It translates to war crimes.

[The Skipper 20,609]

No matter how brutal the Israelis attacked Gaza in the past, Hamas remains. Actually Hamas and other groups get stronger. Last in 2008 hamas didn't have rockets that can reach Tel Aviv. Now they do. As time progresses, hamas and other militant groups will only get stronger unless the Palestinians themselves decide to remove Hamas. The Palestinians see nothing good coming from hamas or Israel. The Israeli Government is making their lives miserable from day to another. More poverty, more injustices, ....etc. If that approach was the right approach, it would have worked in the past against Lebanon, Palestinians and others including Egypt. But if History tells us something, this kind of action will only make things worse for Israel on the long run. Israel has to defend itself, but the 80% civilian deaths does not translate to that. It translates to war crimes.

It really is a sad state if affairs, a huge conundrum. Israel continue to attack or retaliate against Gaza = Hamas getting stronger... Israel not attacking and merely defending themselves = Hamas attacking Israel.

To me there is no point in discussing peace with Hamas because their main objective is clearly to destroy Israel. You're right in saying that change has to happen from within Gaza. The Palestinians must rise and overthrow Hamas... It's probably the only, not too aggressive way. This obviously isn't helped by the excessive force from Israel though... Of course if your family personally got killed by an Israeli drone you'd find it hard to disagree with what Hamas are doing because unfortunately revenge is a strong part of human nature.

I wish some strong voices in Gaza would look past that though, no matter how hard it may seem, because as you said the only probable way the Palestinians can free themselves is if they act from within and overthrow Hamas.

[The Skipper 20,609]

DP

[Roquila 1,335]

And now 295 innocent human beings died because ..... yea, NO REASON AT ALL! WW3 is approaching.

Glad that i have a German passport, as soon as the wars will start i will be the first one to emigrate to Timbuktu or Swaziland or wherever the world doesnt care to fight.

I ain't gonna fight another mans war for sure.

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

During the last cycle of horrible violence in 2008-9, operation Cast Lead as the Iraelis called it, or The Gaza Massacre as known in the arab world-the worlds media watched as war crimes were committed and 1400 Palestinians of which over 1100 were civilians, were slaughtered by US hi -tech weaponry in a couple of weeks.

The UN said there were many war crimes committed by Israel -eg using illegal white phosphorous bombs, (just keeps burning flesh to the bone, and can not be put out), drone attacks killing children and women shot in the head as they emerged from buildings carrying white flags. No prosecutions against Israeli soldiers have been forthcoming -oh apart from one -one of them stole a credit card from one of the bodies of a family where 22 of the same family had been killed. Taking the piss or what ?

Over 1000 complaints to the Isarelis have resulted in 38 responses, just acknowledging that a complaint has been received. if compensation is sought for a building illegally blown up by Israelis, the complaint has to be signed by an Israeli diplomat. Thats pretty tricky for most in Gaza.

Anyway, my point is what israel seems to be doing is fostering more and more resentment -you wouldnt forget if your children had been splattered all over their bedroom. The hi tech weaponry does not cost Isarel, even the US based Iraeli billionaires get Obamas tax payers to cough up the money, so its a win win situation for the Israelis. Couple that with a most sophisticated media and propaganda machine -ie ''its Hamas rockets'' and so it goes on. How many times do they parrott ''hamas uses civilians to protect their rockets, we use missiles to protect our civilians'' ?

What the Israeli propaganda machinery does is to reduce the entirety of Palestine, teh rich and diversified tapestry of Palestinian resistance to Hamas. Then they demonise Hamas. This starategy works, especially when aided and abetted by state sponsored or corporate media like Sky, BBC, ABC or CNN. They execute this strategy, then go on a rampage against Palestinians, maiming and murdering with impunity.

For the good of Israel, they need to see that in the long term this startegy will do more harm to Israel than short term bloody victory over a dispossessd few.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

I didn't said that it is represent the all Palestinians, but we are trying to bring the quiet over our city's as soon as possible believe me if Hamas wasn't shooting the situation was better for both sides.

You kinda missed my main point behind that post: If you want to end extremism, why not start with that on your side of the fence first?

im not accusing you of supporting hamas(im well aware of your correct opposition to such a group). and yes you do know more about egypt than I do, and we will just have to disagree on last point. Like the way I see it is if you say its idf fault as well; thats saying that if someone fires on you and you try to neutralize threat your at fault cause they fired from civilian area? For me all blood on hands of aggressor in such a scenario. Tragic nonetheless, but to add to this, from what I read the idf does do robo calls; drop leaflets and sometimes use a dummy bomb first (a dud that makes noise to warn people) to reduce this.

The vast majority of the targets have been civilian houses. Not their premises, not the are next to them, the houses directly. Do you think Hamas are firing rockets from the kitchen or the living room?

Btw, the 'dummy bomb' is a rocket fired from an MK pilot-less plane. It's no F16 airstrike, but it cause quite a lot of damage. This warning 'dud' rocket is much more powerful than an actual Hamas rocket. Seriously, just think about that for a second.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

IDF confirmed to be using an 'unfamiliar' white poisonous gas since the start of the ground attack.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news/140912/israel-using-poisonous-gas-in-gaza-incursions

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/12881-medical-sources-israel-using-unfamiliar-toxic-gas-against-palestinians-in-gaza

[yuvala 2,167]

The vast majority of the targets have been civilian houses. Not their premises, not the are next to them, the houses directly. Do you think Hamas are firing rockets from the kitchen or the living room?

Hamas hides rockets in civillian's houses, in kindergardens.. that is why.

We are not stupid enough to just randomly kill civillians, you talk as if we're just enjoying killing people..

IDF confirmed to be using an 'unfamiliar' white poisonous gas since the start of the ground attack.

http://www.worldbulletin.net/news/140912/israel-using-poisonous-gas-in-gaza-incursions

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/news/middle-east/12881-medical-sources-israel-using-unfamiliar-toxic-gas-against-palestinians-in-gaza

How reliable is that, honestly ?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Hamas hides rockets in civillian's houses, in kindergardens.. that is why.

We are not stupid enough to just randomly kill civillians, you talk as if we're just enjoying killing people..

How stupid do you think people are to let Hamas hide rockets in their houses. Seriously, think about it for a second. And don't you think Hamas has better places to hide their rockets like under ground tunnels and storages? Why would they put their precious rockets in such vulnerable places?

And yes, it does seem that you just enjoy killing people. I refer you back to the couches and popcorn in Sderot...

How reliable is that, honestly ?

It's all over the news, I just chose two random articles. More sources:

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/07/18/israeli-ground-invasion-kills-28-more-palestinians-forces-fire-unknown-white-poisonous-gas/

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-approves-ground-offensive-gaza-1556492146

Just Google it yourself.

[xPetrCechx 13,573]

How stupid do you think people are to let Hamas hide rockets in their houses. Seriously, think about it for a second. And don't you think Hamas has better places to hide their rockets like under ground tunnels and storages? Why would they put their precious rockets in such vulnerable places?

And yes, it does seem that you just enjoy killing people. I refer you back to the couches and popcorn in Sderot...

It's all over the news, I just chose two random articles. More sources:

http://dissenter.firedoglake.com/2014/07/18/israeli-ground-invasion-kills-28-more-palestinians-forces-fire-unknown-white-poisonous-gas/

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/israel-approves-ground-offensive-gaza-1556492146

Just Google it yourself.

You think that they have any choice?

Most of the gaza people now regret that they chose Hamas.

Hamas Fire the missiles from places near schools, houses and mosques... because of that, they hiding them there.

About the Second part:

I'm not telling that it's ok to cheer up and celebrate death of people, but you didn't mention all the arabs that live in israel and celebrate every rocket that fell here, or any soldier that was killed...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You think that they have any choice?

Most of the gaza people now regret that they chose Hamas.

Hamas Fire the missiles from places near schools, houses and mosques... because of that, they hiding them there.

About the Second part:

I'm not telling that it's ok to cheer up and celebrate death of people, but you didn't mention all the arabs that live in israel and celebrate every rocket that fell here, or any soldier that was killed...

Of course they have a choice! You think Hamas would have any fighters with them if they forced people to keep rockets in their houses? I can get keeping the rockets in schools and mosques because they are public places and Hamas may have power over them, but in private civilians houses? It makes absolutely no sense. Again why would Hamas leave their rockets so exposed when they can hide them in underground tunnels and storages?

I'm not justifying it, it's terrible to 'cheer' for death, but the rockets are falling are meant for psychological damage, and you know it. And you can't really mourn the death of an enemy soldier. For the Arabs, they are cheering for the resistance against the occupier of their country. What are the Israeli cheering for in the death of civilians? And let's be realistic, there is a difference between cheering for news (not that it's okay) and eating popcorn while watching whole neighborhoods with people living in them being bombed to the ground by some of the most devastating weaponry in the world. That's just inhuman.

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

No Palestinian rockets have killed any Israelis thanks to the iron dome paid for by US tax payers, but lets ignore that for a moment.

Palestinians like Israelis are composed of Christians, Muslims, atheists agnostics, socialists, nationalists, anarchists, etc ..and some Palestinians endorse and some despise Hamas

Israelis are a mixed bunch as well ranging from feminists, price tag settlers, right wing, left wing and groups like these ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchists_Against_the_Wall and some agree with the govt and some not.

The reality is like in most of these conflicts, the average Palestinian has more in common with the average Israeli than they do with Hamas if they bothered to talk to each other, and if the wall was torn down. And the average Israeli has more in common with the average Palestinian than they do with their murderous leadership.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

The israeli colonial powers do not want to stop the rockets, they want the last bit of land for their rich friends, and will not rest , as one Isreali put it, ''until every Palestinian is washed out to sea.''

[cosmicway 1,333]

The Arab-Israeli conflict dominates this thread, perhaps not unhustifiably so.
I have already stated my opinion that the only option is peace.

Peace sounds utopian but war is also utopian because no one wins.

At the same time there some more critical issues around.

Europe is threatened with economic junta.

Unemployment, big brother follows you every step.

Do you know that your bank accounts are being monitored by law ?

For hundreds of years people were worried that their political beliefs were monitored. That's gobbledugook now. Who cares if I voted for the centrists and not the social reformists ? If they actually do, I don't mind taking a trip to secret police headquarters and tell them all about it.
But your personal belongings are being monitored. If my aunt Dorothy from Ohio-USA mails me 50 bucks for Christmas sweets, it is being monitored. Chances are they will say "oh it's his aunt Dorothy again with a little gift - let it go", but if they want they confiscate it for VAT issue !
That's the democracy we have.
It's the sort of thing Stalin did to Baltic countries in 1938 when he annexed them. Took all the money from the grannies and left them with one rouble.

Some people react to this by becoming nationalist. That's yet another madness because the nationalists are the number one totalitarians.

[xPetrCechx 13,573]

No Palestinian rockets have killed any Israelis thanks to the iron dome paid for by US tax payers, but lets ignore that for a moment.

Palestinians like Israelis are composed of Christians, Muslims, atheists agnostics, socialists, nationalists, anarchists, etc ..and some Palestinians endorse and some despise Hamas

Israelis are a mixed bunch as well ranging from feminists, price tag settlers, right wing, left wing and groups like these ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchists_Against_the_Wall and some agree with the govt and some not.

The reality is like in most of these conflicts, the average Palestinian has more in common with the average Israeli than they do with Hamas if they bothered to talk to each other, and if the wall was torn down. And the average Israeli has more in common with the average Palestinian than they do with their murderous leadership.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

The israeli colonial powers do not want to stop the rockets, they want the last bit of land for their rich friends, and will not rest , as one Isreali put it, ''until every Palestinian is washed out to sea.''

1.first, they killed 2/3 israelis. second, So the Iron dome is a bad thing? iron dome is here to defence people, not to attack. US helps israel to finance the iron dome.

2. what a BS. hamas does not provoke israel? israel want the gaza land and not to stop the rockets? cammon. it's just a BS.

we don't need gaza land. came to agreement, stop the missiles,back to ceasefire that's it.

[xPetrCechx 13,573]

No Palestinian rockets have killed any Israelis thanks to the iron dome paid for by US tax payers, but lets ignore that for a moment.

Palestinians like Israelis are composed of Christians, Muslims, atheists agnostics, socialists, nationalists, anarchists, etc ..and some Palestinians endorse and some despise Hamas

Israelis are a mixed bunch as well ranging from feminists, price tag settlers, right wing, left wing and groups like these ;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchists_Against_the_Wall and some agree with the govt and some not.

The reality is like in most of these conflicts, the average Palestinian has more in common with the average Israeli than they do with Hamas if they bothered to talk to each other, and if the wall was torn down. And the average Israeli has more in common with the average Palestinian than they do with their murderous leadership.

Hamas does not provoke Israel to attack Gaza. Palestinians do. The very name of Palestine, the very fact and phenomenon of being a Palestinian, being a witness to the moral bankruptcy of the very idea of Zionism provokes Israel. The mere existence of Palestinians is the denial of Israel and its dominant Zionist ideology. That is the reason that Golda Meir famously said there are no Palestinians, for if there were any Palestinians, she would be a joke. So she had to say there are no Palestinians in order to be an Israeli prime minister.

The israeli colonial powers do not want to stop the rockets, they want the last bit of land for their rich friends, and will not rest , as one Isreali put it, ''until every Palestinian is washed out to sea.''

Right... they didn't kidnap 3 teenagers and killed them... they didn't fire rockets for more than 10 years...

[Fulham Broadway 17,333]

Right... they didn't kidnap 3 teenagers and killed them... they didn't fire rockets for more than 10 years...

Mate those few deaths are regrettable, as are the thousand s of Palestinians, but try and put it in a bit of context, and see what your govt is really doing.

[xPetrCechx 13,573]

Mate those few deaths are regrettable, as are the thousand s of Palestinians, but try and put it in a bit of context, and see what your govt is really doing.

If it was so easy to negotiate with them, and to accept the 2 countries solution..... it wasn't take so long...

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

If it was so easy to negotiate with them, and to accept the 2 countries solution..... it wasn't take so long...

Ok this is the part I don't understand Petr. Why negotiate with them and ignore the government of Abbas. Don't you think that if Israel gets into a serious realistic negotiations with Abbas you would have achieved some sort of solution? I am sure that if that was the case, Palestinians in Gaza would realize how much better it is for themselves. But the point is, Israel ignores Abbas and deals with Palestinians as if they are all Hamas. There is a clear distinction and mental approach between both.

[Behemoth 266]

Disgusting shit from the Israeli gov.

That's all I'm gonna say.