Politics & Stuff

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 10/07/2014 at 01:37, MrExcalibur100 said:

First off, I'm neither Pro-Isreal or Pro-Palestine.

I can say that I do. And are you saying HAMAS is secular? Have you heard of the TV show "Tomorrow's pioneers?" and the mass indoctrination that goes on in Palestine? The more and more you dig into it, the more you realize it has less to do with politics and more to do with religion. That's the bitter pill I had to swallow. The problem is that you speak of propaganda but the reality is that there is a great deal of propaganda from BOTH sides even more so from the Palestinian side. How is it possible to even discuss the issue when there is so much vested interest towards the Palestinians on your part.

Speaking of propaganda, a lot of those pictures circulating twitter are old photos of completely unrelated tragedies.

Of course Hamas aren't secular! I said that the first to resist were mostly the secular parties. For example, in Lebanon it was the communist party and the SSNP, in Palestine it was Fateh and the "Public Front" (that doesn't translate too well from Arabic lol).

But since the 80s, the region has an increasing religious prominence due to many reasons, including the global religious trend worldwide, the failure of the secular parties, Israel itself (religious extremism creates opposing religious extremism), the Islamic revolution in Iran, the planing and funding by the UK, the US then KSA and most recently Qatar of extremists groups (not talking about funding just for weapons, but funding for the Sheikhs to spread this ideology)...etc.

But, NO, the struggle is no way about religion. I can tell you from experience, in Lebanon, the people who died fighting Israel are from all religions and sects.

Yes, of course there are propaganda from both sides. The pictures are absolutely disgraceful and disgusting. Even the ones from this attack. To shown the corpse of a child to get "western support" is highly unethical, insulting to the victim and his family, and dehumanizing for all of us. Not to mention that it ends up hurting the Palestinian cause. But that doesn't stop the fact that there are children being killed but the Israeli air-strikes. More than 30 of the 75 martyrs (number has risen to 81, now) are women and children, including 4 infants. The main targets for the airstrikes has been civilian homes.

But, like everything in this 'struggle', the power of the propaganda is completely lob-sided. What do the Palestinians have? Some twitter and Facebook accounts and a few websites where they post pictures that, as you pointed out, anyone with some knowledge of the region and half a brain cell can tell are mostly from a previous time or from Syria. They certainly don't have the backing of the Arabic media. Right now, you'll hear more about this in Western media outlets than in Arabic ones which just mention the latest 'score' of martyrs like it's some basketball match being reported on. On the other side, the Israelis have considerable power over the major media sources in the world. Decades and decades of biased coverage of the facts to all who live in Europe and US and most of the world for that matter. The message is that Israelis are people just like you. Palestinians are barbaric animals that want to destroy your scared places in Jerusalem.

If you really know the history of Palestine and Israel, then great, but that really makes one of the minorities. Not even we here in Lebanon are taught that history in schools. I don't think it is taught anywhere in the Arab world. You need genuine interest and deep research to know how everything came to be as it is now.

[haranr 485]

  On 10/07/2014 at 10:04, Fulham Broadway said:

One side allegedly has ;

Antiquated Antiaircraft Missiles and Rockets

Kalashnikov Guns & Stones

Another gets stuff supplied from the US :

Small arms

Dror light machine gun

IMI Negev light machine gun

Uzi submachine gun

Uzi pistol

Desert Eagle pistol

Jericho 941 pistol

BUL M-5 pistol

BUL Storm pistol

SP-21 Barak pistol

IMI Galil assault rifle

IMI Tavor assault rifle

M89SR sniper rifle

Hezi SM-1 semi-automatic PDW

Anti-tank rockets and missiles

MATADOR Shoulder-launched missile weapon

B-300 Shoulder-launched missile weapon

Shoulder-Launched Multipurpose Assault Weapon

Shipon Shoulder-launched missile weapon

FGM-172 SRAW

MAPATS ATGM

Spike ATGM

LAHAT ATGM

Nimrod ATGM

Other missiles

Guided Advanced Tactical Rocket - Laser

Shafrir air-to-air missile

Derby air-to-air missile

Python air-to-air missile

Gabriel naval anti-ship missile

ADM-141 TALD

Popeye AGM-142 air-to-surface missile

Delilah cruise missile / anti-radiation missile

LORA theater ballistic missile

Jericho medium-range ballistic missile

Aircraft

IAI Arava cargo aircraft

IAI Sea Scan surveillance aircraft

IAI Nesher fighter aircraft

IAI Kfir fighter aircraft

IAI Namer fighter aircraft

IAI Lavi fighter aircraft

ATG Javelin jet trainer aircraft

Watercraft

Shaldag class fast patrol boat

Dabur class patrol boat

Dvora class fast patrol boat

Super Dvora Mk II class fast patrol boat

Super Dvora Mk III class fast patrol boat

Sa'ar 3-class missile boat

Sa'ar 4-class missile boat

Sa'ar 4.5-class missile boat

Sa'ar 5-class corvette

Gal class submarine

Dolphin class submarine

Spaceflight

Shavit spaceflight launch vehicle

EROS earth observation satellite

Ofeq reconnaissance satellite

TecSAR reconnaissance satellite

Weapon stations

CornerShot SWAT weapon

Rafael Overhead Weapon Station

Samson Remote Controlled Weapon Station

Typhoon Weapon System

Active protection systems

Trophy active protection system

Iron Fist active protection system

Flight Guard airborne IR countermeasures system

Radars

EL/M-2032 fire-control radar

EL/M-2052 AESA radar

EL/M-2075 Phalcon AEW&C radar

EL/M-2080 Green Pine target tracking radar

EL/M-2083 AEW&C radar

Optronics

ITL MARS reflex sight

LITENING targeting pod

Spice EO-GPS PGM guidance kit

Skystar 300 ISR system

Tanks

Isherman tank

Sho't tank

Magach tank

Sabra tank

Merkava tank

Fighting vehicles

M113 variants

Nimda Shoet APC

Trail Blazer ARV

IDF Nagmachon APC

IDF Nakpadon CEV

IDF Puma CEV

IDF Achzarit APC

IDF Namer IFV

Nemmera ARV

AIL Abir

AIL Storm

Plasan Sand Cat

Wolf Armoured Vehicle

Golan Armored Vehicle

Artillery

Davidka mortar

Soltam M-66 mortar

Soltam M-68 howitzer

Soltam M-71 howitzer

Soltam M-120 mortar

L-33/39 Ro'em self-propelled howitzer

Makmat self-propelled mortar

MAR-240/290 rocket artillery launcher

LAR-160 rocket artillery launcher

LAROM rocket artillery launcher

Cardom mortar

Rascal self-propelled howitzer

ATMOS 2000 self-propelled howitzer

Sholef self-propelled howitzer

Unmanned aerial vehicles

Tadiran Mastiff UAV

Casper 250 UAV

Silver Arrow Micro-V UAV

Silver Arrow Sniper UAV

IAI Scout UAV

IAI Searcher UAV

IAI Harpy UAV

IAI Harop UAV

IAI Bird-Eye UAV

IAI I-View UAV

IAI Ranger UAV

IAI Heron UAV

IAI Eitan UAV

IAI Panther UAV

IAI RQ-2 Pioneer UAV

IAI RQ-5 Hunter UAV

Elbit Skylark UAV

Elbit Hermes 90 UAV

Elbit Hermes 450 UAV

Elbit Hermes 900 UAV

Aeronautics Dominator UAV

Aeronautics Orbiter UAV

Urban Aeronautics X-Hawk UAV

Unmanned surface vehicles

VIPeR UGCV

Protector USV

Guardium UGV

Raam HaShachar unmanned Caterpillar D9 armored bulldozer

Air-defense systems

Machbet self-propelled anti-aircraft weapon

Barak 1 naval surface-to-air missile

Barak 8 naval surface-to-air missile

SPYDER air-defense system

Arrow anti-ballistic missile

Tactical High Energy Laser

Iron Dome short-range rocket defense system

David's Sling medium-range rocket defense system

Miscellaneous

Mitznefet helmet camouflage

Tomcar all-terrain vehicle

MG251/253 smoothbore tank gun

Kilshon anti-radiation missile launcher

IDF Caterpillar D9 armored bulldozer

Skunk riot control agent

Scream riot control agent

SIMON breach grenade

Enhanced Tactical Computer

Nuclear Weapons

Again, what is your point??

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

  On 10/07/2014 at 12:37, haranr said:

Again, what is your point??

Well it seems silly when the corporate media call it a 'war'. Still I suppose it keeps the arms manufacturers shareholders happy in the US with nice dividends.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 10/07/2014 at 16:47, Fulham Broadway said:

Well it seems silly when the corporate media call it a 'war'. Still I suppose it keeps the arms manufacturers shareholders happy in the US with nice dividends.

Also helps the Republicans for the next elections, as their foreign policy depends in striking fear of security on the American public. And fear sells very well

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

  On 10/07/2014 at 16:59, Mohammed Seif said:

Also helps the Republicans for the next elections, as their foreign policy depends in striking fear of security on the American public. And fear sells very well

Too right. Ok lets look at the UK my country for a minute. The government have just rushed through some immediate legislation that makes all communication companies keep all communications between people, and accessible to the government. These are texts, phone calls, and all social media. The reason cited ? Fighting "terror". For fucks sake they must think we're stupid.

There is another spin off of fear if they can make their populace scared of an unseen enemy, for governments. Studies have shown people actually consume more in a state of fear.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 10/07/2014 at 17:12, Fulham Broadway said:

Too right. Ok lets look at the UK my country for a minute. The government have just rushed through some immediate legislation that makes all communication companies keep all communications between people, and accessible to the government. These are texts, phone calls, and all social media. The reason cited ? Fighting "terror". For fucks sake they must think we're stupid.

There is another spin off of fear if they can make their populace scared of an unseen enemy, for governments. Studies have shown people actually consume more in a state of fear.

The U.K, U.S and other top technological countries have the technology already to do all you said. They have been doing it for a while, tracking calls, hacking emails.....etc. But for the sake of having authoritarian power under the disguise of democracy they sell fear. Before, they would do it to suspects or certain people who are thought to be threatening. They would do it for a certain period until they are caught or cleared of suspicions. But now, they are just spreading their power span over their civilians to gain an iron grip. Can you imagine the blackmailing and manipulation any person can have with that sort of power? Putting the words "fighting terror" makes it SOUND acceptable to some people.

[Fulham Broadway 17,092]

  On 10/07/2014 at 17:26, Mohammed Seif said:

The U.K, U.S and other top technological countries have the technology already to do all you said. They have been doing it for a while, tracking calls, hacking emails.....etc. But for the sake of having authoritarian power under the disguise of democracy they sell fear. Before, they would do it to suspects or certain people who are thought to be threatening. They would do it for a certain period until they are caught or cleared of suspicions. But now, they are just spreading their power span over their civilians to gain an iron grip. Can you imagine the blackmailing and manipulation any person can have with that sort of power? Putting the words "fighting terror" makes it SOUND acceptable to some people.

Yes, since Edward Snowdon blew the whistle on the UK and US snooping on all our communications, people have been asking for their data from communication companies to be wiped. Now there is Emergency legislation going through in 3 days to keep all our communications. Again do they think we're mentally deficient ? If a major drug deal now is going down, or if someone wants to blow up parliament, are they going to text or e mail their plans ?

The main reason they want control over it is theyre terrified of people getting together and bringing down their corrupt, greedy, morally bankrupt regime.

Its getting more like that film V for Vendetta every day

[-Kaplan- 410]

Israel and The USA own the world. We want war. Can we end this topic now?

[LDN Blue 7,903]

  On 10/07/2014 at 18:39, -Kaplan- said:

Israel and The USA own the world. We want war. Can we end this topic now?

Again, why? These guys are having a discussion about it.. No one's forcing you to rea it?

[-Kaplan- 410]

  On 10/07/2014 at 18:40, LDN Blue said:

Again, why? These guys are having a discussion about it.. No one's forcing you to rea it?

Gee, no one offers an opinion that favors israel. Its good to have a forum where the admins favor something. Every jew is satan.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

  On 10/07/2014 at 18:45, -Kaplan- said:

Gee, no one offers an opinion that favors israel. Its good to have a forum where the admins favor something. Every jew is satan.

Why do you insist on turning these discussions into a religious issue?????!!!!! Man, chill. It is politics no more.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

  On 10/07/2014 at 18:45, -Kaplan- said:

Gee, no one offers an opinion that favors israel. Its good to have a forum where the admins favor something. Every jew is satan.

Like Seif just said..

  On 10/07/2014 at 18:47, Mohammed Seif said:

Why do you insist on turning these discussions into a religious issue?????!!!!! Man, chill. It is politics no more.

this is politics, religion is scarcely mentioned. the word zionist was mentioned, but the rest of discussion is about the current issues. I don't know why you keep mentioning mods being involved.. are they not allowed an option like the rest of us?

[haranr 485]

  On 10/07/2014 at 16:47, Fulham Broadway said:

Well it seems silly when the corporate media call it a 'war'. Still I suppose it keeps the arms manufacturers shareholders happy in the US with nice dividends.

It's not a war. I agree.

[Despiadado.Maleante 1,046]

http://m.smh.com.au/world/gaza-crisis-deadly-missile-at-beachside-cafe-hits-world-cup-fans-20140711-zt3o6.html

[jasonlol 154]

soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo how bout them taxes?

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 10/07/2014 at 18:45, -Kaplan- said:

Gee, no one offers an opinion that favors israel. Its good to have a forum where the admins favor something. Every jew is satan.

What about those Jews:

  Reveal hidden contents

[xPetrCechx 13,565]

Alarm During The night In my town...

[jasonlol 154]

http://ari.aynrand.org/issues/foreign-policy/middle-east/Israel-Has-a-Moral-Right-to-Its-Life

Although this was written in 2002, you can replace plo/arafat with hamas and its still valid.