Politics & Stuff

[Fernando 6,533]

Reuters: Turkish PM equates Israel's Netanyahu to Paris attackers. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwud_C_x8

Despite what you think about loses of casualties from a war, this is uncalled for.

And it makes you wonder if this is how a Turkish leader thinks then what else they view in light of events......

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 15/01/2015 at 12:53, Fernando said:

Didn't you belittle someone for using YouTube to bring ideas of what's the truth?

And where did I say that that is the truth? The guy is a nut job FFS

I said he makes some good points. Mainly about the reasons behind this rather than portraying "good" and "evil". Obviously not even close to a complete picture.

  On 15/01/2015 at 12:52, Fernando said:

Just read that copies was sold out in minutes.

Anyways I'm baffled that some Islamic leaders think that the cover is wrong.

Really?

Where is the love and forgiveness in this ideology?

Doesn't Islam has a love your enemies and forgive as I have forgiving you?

In Islam, it is "haram" to draw/paint the prophet, particularly his face. Even if it is saying something good about him, it's not allowed. The objection is to that and not the message of the comic.

And please don't fake tolerance. Unless you are willing to make this:

your avatar in support of freedom of speech even when you don't like it, then you can't feel indignant over Muslims not supporting freedom of speech when it is aimed against them.

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 15/01/2015 at 13:15, CHOULO19 said:

And where did I say that that is the truth? The guy is a nut job FFS

I said he makes some good points. Mainly about the reasons behind this rather than portraying "good" and "evil". Obviously not even close to a complete picture.

In Islam, it is "haram" to draw/paint the prophet, particularly his face. Even if it is saying something good about him, it's not allowed. The objection is to that and not the message of the comic.

And please don't fake tolerance. Unless you are willing to make this:

your avatar in support of freedom of speech even when you don't like it, then you can't feel indignant over Muslims not supporting freedom of speech when it is aimed against them.

I think that's blasphemy but certainly not reason to go on a killing rampage.

Most certainly I will forgive them, pray for them and show love to them.

And I think this Haram sounds similar to what God said to the Israelites in not drawing up an image of himself.

But people still don't listen....

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Another hostage situation in Paris today. All the interest and the media coverage evaporated when the French police announced that the situation was "not terror related", meaning the hostage taker is a non-Muslim white man. After that, the issue is done as far as the public is concerned and won't make it into your news again, or if it did, it would be something along the lines of "suspicion of a terrorist hostage situation that turned out to be a man with a mental illness".

The involvement of Muslims has now become a necessary condition for anything to be labeled as "terrorist" by the media and no one even contests that. "Why do we feel like it's always the Muslims doing the terrorist acts?" Maybe because that is how your media defines terrorism?!

In reality, according to Europol, between 2006 and 2013, only 0.7% of all the terrorist acts committed in the EU have been done by radical Muslims. 6% in the USA between 1980 and 2005 according to official FBI records. The perception of the public of the so called "Islamic threat" is hugely magnified by the Islamophobic propagandist media in order to create a crippling fear in the public to secure and increase state power. This is shown pretty conclusively by this graphic by the Economist:

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 16/01/2015 at 14:37, CHOULO19 said:

Another hostage situation in Paris today. All the interest and the media coverage evaporated when the French police announced that the situation was "not terror related", meaning the hostage taker is a non-Muslim white man. After that, the issue is done as far as the public is concerned and won't make it into your news again, or if it did, it would be something along the lines of "suspicion of a terrorist hostage situation that turned out to be a man with a mental illness".

The involvement of Muslims has now become a necessary condition for anything to be labeled as "terrorist" by the media and no one even contests that. "Why do we feel like it's always the Muslims doing the terrorist acts?" Maybe because that is how your media defines terrorism?!

In reality, according to Europol, between 2006 and 2013, only 0.7% of all the terrorist acts committed in the EU have been done by radical Muslims. 6% in the USA between 1980 and 2005 according to official FBI records. The perception of the public of the so called "Islamic threat" is hugely magnified by the Islamophobic propagandist media in order to create a crippling fear in the public to secure and increase state power. This is shown pretty conclusively by this graphic by the Economist:

Interesting take, but tell me of those committing terror acts then what are they?

Are they not Muslim?

Are they Christian?

Buddhist?

Catholics?

etc etc

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 16/01/2015 at 14:49, Fernando said:

Interesting take, but tell me of those committing terror acts then what are they?

Are they not Muslim?

Are they Christian?

Buddhist?

Catholics?

etc etc

In Europe for the years 2006, 2007 and 2008 (from Europol):

And here you can find the FBI record I mentioned of all of the 318 terrorist attack in the USA between 1980 and 2005 and who committed each: https://www.google.com.lb/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fbi.gov%2Fstats-services%2Fpublications%2Fterrorism-2002-2005&ei=WTy5VJi_CYfZatXggLAO&usg=AFQjCNF8fW7KVr5Vy8YgfT8zyDKPzAFyJQ&sig2=l9J0kdooxFnkHcbg8-57Dw&bvm=bv.83829542,d.d2s

(right at the end there is a table summarizing everything that includes the perpetrators of each terrorist act)

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 16/01/2015 at 15:02, CHOULO19 said:

In Europe for the years 2006, 2007 and 2008 (from Europol):

And here you can find the FBI record I mentioned of all of the 318 terrorist attack in the USA between 1980 and 2005 and who committed each: http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05

(right at the end there is a table summarizing everything that includes the perpetrators of each terrorist act)

That FBI link is not working.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 16/01/2015 at 16:05, Fernando said:

That FBI link is not working.

Very weird. When I copy the link and paste it here, it stops working. Try it this way: google "fbi reports and publications terrorism 2002 2005" and it should come up as the first result. Should work this way.

EDIT: Original link works now.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Reading that this clip has been banned on dailymotion in France. Some freedom of speech defenders....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0brG6JLrpYE

PS: Le-pen! :lol:

[lucio 5,418]

  On 16/01/2015 at 15:02, CHOULO19 said:

In Europe for the years 2006, 2007 and 2008 (from Europol):

And here you can find the FBI record I mentioned of all of the 318 terrorist attack in the USA between 1980 and 2005 and who committed each: https://www.google.com.lb/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB4QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.fbi.gov%2Fstats-services%2Fpublications%2Fterrorism-2002-2005&ei=WTy5VJi_CYfZatXggLAO&usg=AFQjCNF8fW7KVr5Vy8YgfT8zyDKPzAFyJQ&sig2=l9J0kdooxFnkHcbg8-57Dw&bvm=bv.83829542,d.d2s

(right at the end there is a table summarizing everything that includes the perpetrators of each terrorist act)

how lethal were those attacks? i read all the 8 most lethal terrorist organizations are islamic.

and why is there just a few european countries on the list.

didnt boko capture/ kill hundreds like last week. does it count as 1 attack? compared to how ever many enviromentalist "terror" attacks which usually equate to a school prank level of damage.

you have to look at damage causes/lives lost, rather than number of incidents.

what are the other main terrorists

[CHOULO19 24,332]

  On 16/01/2015 at 19:02, lucio said:

how lethal were those attacks? i read all the 8 most lethal terrorist organizations are islamic.

and why is there just a few european countries on the list.

didnt boko capture/ kill hundreds like last week. does it count as 1 attack? compared to how ever many enviromentalist "terror" attacks which usually equate to a school prank level of damage.

you have to look at damage causes/lives lost, rather than number of incidents.

what are the other main terrorists

Those are Europol stats about Europe alone. I doubt you can find anything like that for Africa, or even make an estimation for that matter. Countless tribe on tribe violence, separatists attacks, militias, ivory trade mobs, drug wars...etc. Boko Haram are inhuman, but there are plenty of other pretty terrible militias and tribes in Africa.

The attacks listed are the ones that are defined by the police as terrorist. So, no, I really doubt that school pranks are there. Those also include the failed and foiled attacks. So plans that have been stopped before they materialize are also on the list (talking about the ones in Europe, the FBI link shows the attacks that actually took place).

The environmentalists are probably mostly burning down offices or attempts at placing homemade bombs or plans for hostage taking or things of the sort. Is the definition of terrorism subjective? Of course it is. For example, there have been an estimated 60 attacks in France since the Chrlie Hebdo incident on mosques, Muslim cultural centers...etc. with guns, grenades and Molotovs but these are not classified by the French police as "terrorist". In the US and most of Europe, attacks against Muslims are labeled "hate crimes".

But yes, you are obviously right. The attacks by radical Muslims in recent years tend to be a lot more deadly and there is a very simple explanation for that: these radical Muslim groups originate from countries that have been for decades the stage for for world power conflicts which has created environments of complete chaos due to the intervention of those world powers like Iraq Libya and Syria now or Afghanistan, Pakistan and Chechnya before. This and the enormous amounts of funding and weapons that were and are still are being poured into these countries (mostly by those same western countries they are targeting) gives rise to groups that are very organized, very well trained and with access and experience in a lot of weapons that are capable of these more lethal attacks.

So the severity of the attacks is more down to circumstances, funding, arming, freedom to plot and plan and lack of ability to stop these groups from outside the target states than to religion or culture or race as is largely being advertised for in mainstream media. It is not even questionable that the so called "Islamic threat" is being magnified beyond belief in the public eye. The actual threat, and there undoubtedly is one, is no where near what the perception for it is (I refer you to the Economist graphic I posted above in this page).

[kellzfresh 7,229]

  Quote

Mayor Of Rotterdam Says Those Who Don't Like Freedom Should Pack Their Bags

The Huffington Post | By Cavan Sieczkowski

Posted: 01/13/2015

The mayor of the second largest city in the Netherlands has some words for those who don't support freedom: Get lost.

Ahmed Aboutaleb, the Muslim mayor of Rotterdam, recently sat down with Dutch news program "News Hour" to speak about the attack on the Charlie Hebdo office in Paris by Islamic extremists.

"It's incomprehensible that you can be against freedom like that. But if you don't like that freedom, pack your bags and leave," Aboutaleb said, per a Huffington Post translation. "Be honest with yourself about [not liking freedom] and don't kill innocent journalists . It's so stupid. It's so incomprehensible. If you can't find your place in the Netherlands, in the way we want to build a society together, leave." Adding: "If you don't like it here because you don't like cartoonists who make a little newspaper, get lost."

He said he believes other Muslims should take a stand against such attacks.

"This is such an incomprehensible form of barbarism, such an incomprehensible form of stupidity, that every sane person in the world, from whichever faith, should condemn," he continued. "As a Muslim, I'm furious. This has touched me very profoundly ... I can't comprehend that someone kills people in cold blood in name of a religion ... I think it's really important that Muslims distance themselves from this en masse and make clear there's no justification for this. "

Originally from Morocco and the son of an imam, Aboutaleb describes himself as a "secular Muslim", according to the Telegraph. He moved to the Netherlands in 1976 when he was 15 years old.

Since becoming mayor in 2009, Aboutaleb has acknowledged he feels a responsibility to other immigrants and minorities, not only in his country, but also across Europe.

"There is a huge group of people in the Netherlands that is happy that there is someone who is Muslim-born and is part of the power system," he told HuffPost during a 2011 interview, "but if I fail in this mission it will be difficult for people to participate in this field."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/0...n_6462754.html

Dutch mayor to Muslim immigrants: If you dont like democracy, f off!

By Bob Fredericks

January 13, 2015

But if you dont like freedom, for heavens sake pack your bags and leave. If you do not like it here because some humorists you dont like are making a newspaper, may I then say you can ​f off!

http://nypost.com/2015/01/13/dutch-m...cracy-f-k-off/

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Conspiracy theories

[CHOULO19 24,332]

On the hypocrisy and the media double-standards on the "right to offend": http://www.medialens.org/index.php/2015/783-charlie-hebdo-and-the-war-for-civilisation.html

An excellent must-read article.

[Fernando 6,533]

Reuters: Five killed in second day of Charlie Hebdo protests in Niger. http://google.com/newsstand/s/CBIwkbadgCA

[Stingray 9,441]

I remember cringing on here when I read religious guys claiming 'morality'. Also, further research on the topic:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html

Religion and the hybris those believing display when they make statements.... Sigh. #yourabsolutetruthistheequivalentofafairytale #opiumforthemasses #enlightenmentwassometimeago

[Fulham Broadway 17,091]

  On 17/01/2015 at 14:49, CHOULO19 said:

On the hypocrisy and the media double-standards on the "right to offend": http://www.medialens.org/index.php/2015/783-charlie-hebdo-and-the-war-for-civilisation.html

An excellent must-read article.

Good article and I forgot abour Media Lens , used to look at their stuff a lot.

So true as well, as Joe Strummer sung in Know Your Rights " You have the right to free speech, as long as youre not dumb enough to actually try it"

[Fernando 6,533]

  On 18/01/2015 at 17:10, Stingray said:

I remember cringing on here when I read religious guys claiming 'morality'. Also, further research on the topic:

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0115-zuckerman-secular-parenting-20150115-story.html

Religion and the hybris those believing display when they make statements.... Sigh. #yourabsolutetruthistheequivalentofafairytale #opiumforthemasses #enlightenmentwassometimeago

Yet the research don't take into account that they live in a structure society with rules and guidelines. Rules and guidelines taken from the bible.

It would be totally different if they grew up like the animals not knowing right from wrong, where no rules or laws exist and everyone does as they see right in their eyes.