Politics & Stuff

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Yet another video from France 24 this time clearly showing rocket silos intentionally placed next to civilian areas by Hamas. How can Israel and not Hamas be held directly responsible for civilian deaths? Hamas has always and is still is killing its own people.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Another UN Food center has come up. How long until they bomb that as well now?

abcnews.go.com/International/life-gaza-ceasefire-gazans-return-sense-normalcy/story?id=24863828

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Good!

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/08/world/middleeast/obama-weighs-military-strikes-to-aid-trapped-iraqis-officials-say.html

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Yet another video from France 24 this time clearly showing rocket silos intentionally placed next to civilian areas by Hamas. How can Israel and not Hamas be held directly responsible for civilian deaths? Hamas has always and is still is killing its own people.

Because Israel are not targeting "next to civilian buildings", they are targeting the civilian buildings themselves, and they are not looking to destroy the missiles (did you see that thing? You can take it out with a rock) because they are using bombs exceeding 1 and 2 tons each, even though they have the ability to do surgical strikes to take out just the launching pad. The Israeli airstrikes are not targeted at destroying the rocket launchers or the Hamas militants. They are targeted to collectively punish the Palestinian people for resisting the attempts to wipe them off of earth.

For the millionth time: Hamas are bad. They care very little about their people. So, yes, I wouldn't put it past them to use civilian houses as cover while they launch rockets, but Gaza is 350Km with 1.8 million people living in it. How much empty uninhabited land do you think there is to fire rockets from?

Btw, the Lebanese army has just fought with an ISIS related group in a Lebanese town called Arsal. The town has thousands of civilians in it and the militants set up their Hawns between houses and took civilian houses as shelters. The Lebanese army, using WW2 weapons killed about 200 fighter without killing a single civilian. So, no, the army actually throwing the tons and tons of explosives are responsible for the deaths of the civilians, as shocking as that may sound..

Everyone is silent on this?

This is so bullshit! Do you think that every time Hamas wants to fire a rocket, they put up a tenet?! There are hundreds of drones in the Gaza sky, don't you think that a bright blue tent would kinda make them stick out? Hamas has fired thousands of rockets, if that is how they set up rockets launchers, then you'd find a blue tenet every hundred meter. And I love how it went from "this is a very peculiar and rare sight" to "this is how Hamas usually set up their rockets".

But let us assume that that really is how Hamas sets up their rocket launchers. That would mean two things: The first is that it is a complete lie that Hamas fires from between houses because if they've set up over 3000 blue tents and only one was caught on camera then this was a one-off and the rest are obviously very far from civilian houses. And secondly, this just proves the point I was making above: this was "near a civilian building" and Israel has the weapons to take out the launch pads, so the destruction of whole houses is not by mistake.

[Fulham Broadway 16,863]

Where are the Israeli defendants now?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=635306669921691

Hundreds of children in the west bank have been detained by Israel the past month. In Gaza, kids are being murdered and burned to death, while in the west bank they are being detained and prisoned.

Thats some of the worst child abuse on camera, just because they have uniforms and weapons ithey make out its 'legitimate'.

Imagine if Palestinians had uniforms and tear gas and drove into Israel grabbing, arresting and killing children.

[Fulham Broadway 16,863]

I said this to Fernando: The situation with the Christians in Iraq is very suspicious to say the least. Not even the Vatican has said anything. Why this Western silence and lack of action? Even now the spotlight has been put on the country because of the Yazidis and the west wants to look like the rich powerful man who saved an animal of an endangered species on TV! (Sorry, I'm in a cynical mood)

Why is the issue being marginalized? Why was so little made of Ma'loola and other cities of Christian majority in Syria? Do they want a Christian-free middle east? Does the cultural diversity in the region annoy them? Are they trying to erase our culturally rich history because a middle east with a single right-wing Muslim demographic is easier to vilify and justify attacking? Do they want to "abbreviate" the middle east with the likes of ISIS for the same reason Israel calls all the Palestinians "Hamas"?

I realize how much of a conspiracy theory that sounds like, but I feel those are all valid questions.

Apologies for late reply. How inconsiderate of work making me do stuff and not allow political debate on a football forum.

I think a lot of the patchy response is because 'those christians are not our christians' . Just as there are Shia and Sunni and other shades of Islam, Hiduism etc. ''They believe in our god, not one of those ''other '' gods , but are a bit weird with it''. But now they have been branded with teh catch all ''christians'' the west is under pressure from several quarters to act. It also has the added binus of giving those IS muslims a bit of a pounding -and the best part.....drum roll please.......Iraq will foot the bill. Its a win, win situation for Washington.

As far as you feeling conspiratorial, that can be quite a healthy standpoint when it comes to Western or for that matter most political decisions, but it can give the decision makers too much credit. I find a healthier standpoint is cui bono ?

I am not sure they want a single demographic Muslim entity, I think it really comes down to the old maxim divide and rule. ''Get em blowing each other up , and the situation for us is easier to control''. However I think you are right and IS will become the regions ''Hamas'' in order to justify more intervention, with teh catch all term for any opposition ''Terrorists'' an ''Terror''. Thats not to say ISIS, or IS as theyre now called, are not complete mentalists.

With Syria, I think the situation was marginalised because we all know what a darling Assad and his shopping wife were to the West for such a long time. Even if the West does more intervention in Syria or the Middle east as a whole, it is not a solution. The west would be in it for the West, like Ken Bates, however much they dress up the humanitarian angle

It’s time to cut through all this simplistic heaping of blame at the feet of individual politicians or specific policy decisions, and assert a more important truth: it was the act of intervention itself, the ideology and practice of Western interventionism, which destroyed Iraq and cultivated the calamity now enveloping large parts of that benighted nation.

Today, with no unifying or political force, whether of the ruthless Saddam variety or any other, Iraqis have fallen back on ethnic associations, one of the few things left by a war that removed the ruling regime and replaced it with nothing.

There is one caveat to Western intervention I would advocate, that would go a long way in the disolving of massive future problems, and that would be the dismantling of the state of Israel.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Apologies for late reply. How inconsiderate of work making me do stuff and not allow political debate on a football forum.

I think a lot of the patchy response is because 'those christians are not our christians' . Just as there are Shia and Sunni and other shades of Islam, Hiduism etc. ''They believe in our god, not one of those ''other '' gods , but are a bit weird with it''. But now they have been branded with teh catch all ''christians'' the west is under pressure from several quarters to act. It also has the added binus of giving those IS muslims a bit of a pounding -and the best part.....drum roll please.......Iraq will foot the bill. Its a win, win situation for Washington.

As far as you feeling conspiratorial, that can be quite a healthy standpoint when it comes to Western or for that matter most political decisions, but it can give the decision makers too much credit. I find a healthier standpoint is cui bono ?

I am not sure they want a single demographic Muslim entity, I think it really comes down to the old maxim divide and rule. ''Get em blowing each other up , and the situation for us is easier to control''. However I think you are right and IS will become the regions ''Hamas'' in order to justify more intervention, with teh catch all term for any opposition ''Terrorists'' an ''Terror''. Thats not to say ISIS, or IS as theyre now called, are not complete mentalists.

With Syria, I think the situation was marginalised because we all know what a darling Assad and his shopping wife were to the West for such a long time. Even if the West does more intervention in Syria or the Middle east as a whole, it is not a solution. The west would be in it for the West, like Ken Bates, however much they dress up the humanitarian angle

It’s time to cut through all this simplistic heaping of blame at the feet of individual politicians or specific policy decisions, and assert a more important truth: it was the act of intervention itself, the ideology and practice of Western interventionism, which destroyed Iraq and cultivated the calamity now enveloping large parts of that benighted nation.

Today, with no unifying or political force, whether of the ruthless Saddam variety or any other, Iraqis have fallen back on ethnic associations, one of the few things left by a war that removed the ruling regime and replaced it with nothing.

There is one caveat to Western intervention I would advocate, that would go a long way in the disolving of massive future problems, and that would be the dismantling of the state of Israel.

What a brilliant post

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

The worrying thing is that well educated people are joining ISIS as well now. For example a few of my school mates who were bright boys have flown from the UK to Syria to join ISIS. It was pretty big news in the UK actually:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2714833/Reyaad-Khan-British-jihadist-Syria-tried-war-crimes-jailed-life-using-Twitter-brazenly-boast-role-execution-prisoners.html

http://bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27963675

Sure, tell me more about your school mates, their age, their inititial nationality, and how recent were they Muslims or whether they were born as Muslims. Each has a way totake on and I will give you examples. BTW someone tried to recruit me in the U.S. I pretty much know their methods.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

@Fulham Broadway, another valid question about why the US are deciding to act now:

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Because Israel are not targeting "next to civilian buildings", they are targeting the civilian buildings themselves, and they are not looking to destroy the missiles (did you see that thing? You can take it out with a rock) because they are using bombs exceeding 1 and 2 tons each, even though they have the ability to do surgical strikes to take out just the launching pad. The Israeli airstrikes are not targeted at destroying the rocket launchers or the Hamas militants. They are targeted to collectively punish the Palestinian people for resisting the attempts to wipe them off of earth.

For the millionth time: Hamas are bad. They care very little about their people. So, yes, I wouldn't put it past them to use civilian houses as cover while they launch rockets, but Gaza is 350Km with 1.8 million people living in it. How much empty uninhabited land do you think there is to fire rockets from?

Btw, the Lebanese army has just fought with an ISIS related group in a Lebanese town called Arsal. The town has thousands of civilians in it and the militants set up their Hawns between houses and took civilian houses as shelters. The Lebanese army, using WW2 weapons killed about 200 fighter without killing a single civilian. So, no, the army actually throwing the tons and tons of explosives are responsible for the deaths of the civilians, as shocking as that may sound..

This is so bullshit! Do you think that every time Hamas wants to fire a rocket, they put up a tenet?! There are hundreds of drones in the Gaza sky, don't you think that a bright blue tent would kinda make them stick out? Hamas has fired thousands of rockets, if that is how they set up rockets launchers, then you'd find a blue tenet every hundred meter. And I love how it went from "this is a very peculiar and rare sight" to "this is how Hamas usually set up their rockets".

But let us assume that that really is how Hamas sets up their rocket launchers. That would mean two things: The first is that it is a complete lie that Hamas fires from between houses because if they've set up over 3000 blue tents and only one was caught on camera then this was a one-off and the rest are obviously very far from civilian houses. And secondly, this just proves the point I was making above: this was "near a civilian building" and Israel has the weapons to take out the launch pads, so the destruction of whole houses is not by mistake.

Self denial.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Self denial.

Way to tackle the points made

But keep on posting mistranslated and out of context YouTube videos instead of making a proper argument with logic and facts from reliable sources.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Way to tackle the points made

But keep on posting mistranslated and out of context YouTube videos instead of making a proper argument with logic and facts from reliable sources.

i noticed he linked NDTV. The channel's a pile of horseshit.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

Way to tackle the points made

But keep on posting mistranslated and out of context YouTube videos instead of making a proper argument with logic and facts from reliable sources.

The thing is you're not even willing to consider anything. For instance, you based your entire argument on blue tents. Was it ever suggested that Hamas always use tents everytime they are building rocket silos? I never claimed that and neither did the video. Instead, that's just one example of a brave journalist that captured on camera what IDF has been claiming since, and something the reporters of the MSM in Gaza don't have the balls to touch on but the truth will prevail as always. Another example was the France 24 video which was ignored. Mistranslated? Out of context? Videos of Imam's preaching genocide against Jews while backing it up from Qur'an is out of context? Or Hamas spokesmen saying their "human shield strategy is effective" is mistranslated? Please provide us with your translations then because I happen to trust MEMRI's translations very much. Then you go out of your way to say (speaking out of both sides of your mouth) "Hamas are bad, but what do you expect them to do? Gaza is densely populated anyway". We all have google earth and that's simply untrue. There are sparsely populated areas on the Gaza strip but Hamas intentionally build their rocket silos in civilian areas and then feed "dead baby porn" to the mainstream media. Fortunately, people in the USA are fully aware of this tactic Hamas uses and even leftist Europeans are waking up. Why should anyone take the word of Hamas to task on anything if even you admit they're a terrorist organisation? They have it in their charter they want to kill every last Jew and I believe them.

Video evidence of Hamas placing rocket launchers in civilian areas wouldn't do for you and the Muslim guys on this thread. Why should any Muslim side with Israel (by extension, the Jews) on anything anyway, especially in favour of other Muslims. It's almost impossible and it shows on this thread and in everyday life. Direct quotes from Hamas officials won't do. It's all a grand conspiracy and the Jews are committing genocide against the Palestinians (even though their population increases year after year as I showed from the CIA database and wikipedia). What is happening is so black and white to you and you've already made up your mind.

All this leads me to conclude that you just don't want to see that Hamas are chiefly responsible for civilian deaths. You don't have to respond everytime to my posts if I don't directly quote you, CHOULO. If you don't like it, just ignore it. This thread is just a huge cluster fuck of "let's bash Israel". It's only right someone shows the other side.

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

i noticed he linked NDTV. The channel's a pile of horseshit.

Owned by Zionists, I presume right . Seriously, they are generally very leftist (i.e pro-Palestine) so it's a miracle they have reporters with balls to report what they see. The video is already viral btw, so the truth is slowly creeping out.

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Owned by Zionists, I presume right . Seriously, they are generally very leftist (i.e pro-Palestine) so it's a miracle they have reporters with balls to report what they see. The video is already viral btw, so the truth is slowly creeping out.

That's NDTV. New Delhi Television limited. They can't report what's right in their own country. I can speak from experience.

[Clevemayer 764]

Bro, tell me about the Yezidis more. And tell me about the attacks on them prior to ISIS. A know Saddam oppressed you guys and the She'as too.

Bro, we ezidîs are not a sect like Obama told the press, this is a common misunderstanding. We don't have an ultimate goal which we have to reach, an we don't force ppl. to stay with us or to give us all theyr money but most important we don't have a big leader whos word stands above everything. We are an ancient Religion that is sometimes dated to 4000 before christ, others say 2000 before Christ. We belive only in god as the source of all power. Although he has seven angels beside him, whom have different tasks to fullfill. The biggest of them is Tawis-Î-Melek, which means Peacock-Angel. This 7 Angels stand for the 7 planets surrounding the sun, the sun is the 8th ans biggest planet, and for us is the Symbol of god (most probably god himself, because everything else in our universe surrounds it). Tawis-Î-Melek is the biggest one because he has to oversee the happenings of the earth.

I'll tell you a few things but you must read books and the tellings of different yezidis are not always the same, because our prayers and religious songs are not written down, and only given from generation to generation by learning to sing them, there are very few differences and different interpretations. I've got my versions from an now dead religios priest, who told me, they don't go out and tell what he was going to tell me to everybody because ppl don't understand what he is going to explain to me, but he thinks I was fit enough to understand our true story which he had learned from his father and he did from his father and so on... Maybe I will have some issues telling it.

God made a white pearl of pure power (think of the big-bang in physics when you read please), he placed the pearl at the back of a piegon (you see birds and animals for us have a holy status) which flew with that pearl at his back for 4000 years when there was nothing existing. This pearl exploded and out of the dust the planets and the universe, the moon and the earth was builded. When he builded everything it was chaos and planets where burning (think of planets when they start to build). He placed the sun as his symbol in the center of the Universe. The world was so far away from the big sign of god (named Shams), it took some days untill the light of the sun enlighted the earth (quite amazing how much details in that time far back they thought of don't it?), and the whole earth was the first time blessed by god and was RED, this they was a wednesday, for this wednesday is the sabbatical day of Êzdîs, its the mid of the week and is called Carshemba. The wednesday which was the first day the light of the sun enlightned the earth, was the first Wednesday in April and it is one of ore most important feasts and is called Carshemba Sôr (red wednesday). After this, the World cooled down. Then he did sent Berat (means smthg like Gift) to the earth from heaven which brought water and and with the water came Life (think of the metroit that did probably hit the earth from Mars which was out of water with microbiological bakteria). Before this all he although created Angel Peacock out of his light (in Ezdi songs about our religion, the defenders of the religion often say, I'm made out of the light of lights = light of god, and if you think of that Light is the quint essence of power, power in his pure form according to Einstein till a few years ago, when some questionmarks where raisd, this is even more interesting). The Angel Peacock first didn't know he was and where he came from, then he wanted to settle on the first tree that arose in the big ocean the earth was now. But he couldn't because god hindered him. God asked him who am I and who are you? Peacock answered I 'dont understand you are you and me is me, God answered: you are wrong, and god asked two further times and Tawis-i-Melek answerd wrong one further time till he said, You made Me and I'm your servant. God Accepted his answer and let him settle on the Tree. And god made further Angels, for differing work they had to do.

Then God told them, they should create Life on Earth, but the Life they should create should differ from what was already existing (Animals, Trees and so on), they should hav his Sir (hard to describe, his air, his soul, his light maybe, means too much to convert it to english) inside them. And they searched for something that could keep the Sir of god. They asked different Materials of the earth, if they would lend them they're material they're of to create something like god wanted, all said no but the earth. The earth told the angels: "I will lend you, but only lend you me as material, when the part of god leaves what you are gonna have to give me back", thats why ppl rot to earth again when they're Sir leaves. So they used Earth and Water and formed the human body and made them robust in burning them with fire, and after god gave his Sir to the humans (thats why we hounour earth, water, fire and air).

Till then Tawis - i -Melek wasn't the highest of the angels. After god created the human beings, he wanted the Angels to pray to them, all followed his advice and prayed to them only Tawis-i-Melek didn't. The other angels asked god why he doesn't do what he advices and prays to the human beings and if he thinks he was better then them. God asked Tawis -i-melek why he didn't what he said to him and was angry with him, Tawis-I-Melek said, yes I'will never pray to the humans, this is because you told us when you made us out of your fire (light), you told us never to pray to anything else then you and only you, so I will never do so.

This is a critical part in our mythology, thats where Islamic ppl have somehow changed the story and made Tawis-I-Melek the fallen angel and call im S****an. They said god sent him to hell, we say god was proud he remembered what he said to him and didn't follow what he said blindly, he thought of doing something before to do it. Funny thing is S****an in his original meaning is built out of two words Sha and Tan which means Holy and soul. Even Lu***fer means The Light bringer, the other religions just gave it a bad meaning. Thats all why Muslim-Religion and Muslim-Fanatics kill us. We belive God honored Tawis-I-Melek for his thoughtfull acting and like all religious story there is a deeper meaning, Tawis-I-Melek didn't follow all the rest, he didn't just do what he told him, even he was his creatore, he thought before doing it or not carefully and made a decision for himself but with a reasoning that hit the nail on his head. (sorry for my bad english).

The massacres I will tell you another time, this is our genesis....

So this is our idea of how the world was created. Further like I've said there is no intervention of go

[Fernando 6,465]

Apologies for late reply. How inconsiderate of work making me do stuff and not allow political debate on a football forum.

I think a lot of the patchy response is because 'those christians are not our christians' . Just as there are Shia and Sunni and other shades of Islam, Hiduism etc. ''They believe in our god, not one of those ''other '' gods , but are a bit weird with it''. But now they have been branded with teh catch all ''christians'' the west is under pressure from several quarters to act. It also has the added binus of giving those IS muslims a bit of a pounding -and the best part.....drum roll please.......Iraq will foot the bill. Its a win, win situation for Washington.

As far as you feeling conspiratorial, that can be quite a healthy standpoint when it comes to Western or for that matter most political decisions, but it can give the decision makers too much credit. I find a healthier standpoint is cui bono ?

I am not sure they want a single demographic Muslim entity, I think it really comes down to the old maxim divide and rule. ''Get em blowing each other up , and the situation for us is easier to control''. However I think you are right and IS will become the regions ''Hamas'' in order to justify more intervention, with teh catch all term for any opposition ''Terrorists'' an ''Terror''. Thats not to say ISIS, or IS as theyre now called, are not complete mentalists.

With Syria, I think the situation was marginalised because we all know what a darling Assad and his shopping wife were to the West for such a long time. Even if the West does more intervention in Syria or the Middle east as a whole, it is not a solution. The west would be in it for the West, like Ken Bates, however much they dress up the humanitarian angle

Its time to cut through all this simplistic heaping of blame at the feet of individual politicians or specific policy decisions, and assert a more important truth: it was the act of intervention itself, the ideology and practice of Western interventionism, which destroyed Iraq and cultivated the calamity now enveloping large parts of that benighted nation.

Today, with no unifying or political force, whether of the ruthless Saddam variety or any other, Iraqis have fallen back on ethnic associations, one of the few things left by a war that removed the ruling regime and replaced it with nothing.

There is one caveat to Western intervention I would advocate, that would go a long way in the disolving of massive future problems, and that would be the dismantling of the state of Israel.

So your whole point is because western nation intervene everything went to hell?

Then how come it didn't happen in Nicaragua when USA was there?

How come it didn't happen in Dominican Republic when USA was there?

They did not become terrorist organization like all these countries in the middle east!

And dismantle Israel, you have no idea what your asking.

[Fernando 6,465]

@Fulham Broadway, another valid question about why the US are deciding to act now:

https://twitter.com/JFXM/status/497687614607347712

Why does USA always have to act in every problem of the world? Are they the world police?

Half the world doesn't even like them, but they sure want their help....

Why doesn't your country goes and help?