Politics & Stuff

[lucio 5,418]

The reason why they're being abolished is because students (especially foreign ones, as it's easier to do if the govt can't even chase you for payment) took the grants and then never paid it back. If you wanna blame somebody then blame those students who did not wish to pay back in again.

Literally the only difference now is that you are now legally obligated to pay for your loans opposed to being able to blow it off. You don't have a right to have it for free.

You're part of the problem, just like all the middle class families that think they have a right to child benefit. Regarding the child poverty comment, under the old system it was possible that if everybody earned £1,000,000 a year then a family earning £200,000 a year would be considered to be in poverty. That's not right.

Finally I'm pretty sure taking lower earners out of tax altogether is a better plan than taking their money and then giving it back through the benefits system.

Regardless , child poverty is rising In the UK.

And I'm not middle class , and my family needs the benefits , thank you.

The point is , they can't be arsed to meet an important target , so they change what it means. Easy to do when dealing with poor and disabled people , their favourite targets.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Regardless , child poverty is rising In the UK.

And I'm not middle class , and my family needs the benefits , thank you.

The point is , they can't be arsed to meet an important target , so they change what it means. Easy to do when dealing with poor and disabled people , their favourite targets.

That's because we just had the worst recession since the 1929 crash, more than anything else... I agree on that point though. Maybe they should use some of the foreign aid budget to take care of our own before paying for Mubarak's next swimming pool.

The whole way student loans get granted should change. firstly on grade at A level and secondly on tax band - those in the lowest tax band but a high grade should get the most favourable offer, and ommits those that would get an unhelpful degree - ie stopping people getting a useless degree at a rough uni that accepted them with 2 Cs and a D at a level. Then again personally I reckon they'd be better off creating a leaving qualification that can get the poorest a job without having to spend £30,000 on a degree. But that's just me.

I get that Cons are seen as the nasty party but honestly it's still better than the France/Greece route. driving away the rich, creating mass unemployment and strangling the economy so people earning £40k a year can get their tax credits.

The tories are trying to make work pay better than benefits for the first time in about 10 years. And by 2020 the minimum wage for over 25s will be £9 an hour. That's progress.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Those grants have to be repaid if your income after uiniv, is above a certain thseshold, or no ?

I remember one showed me the contract. I think it was 2008 or 2009 and the university was Essex.

It mentioned 65,000 euros a year and he did n't say anything to me about not having the intention to repay, but he said "fat chance" about the 65k. I don't know quite what he is doing now.

From memory that restriction was removed.

It's remarkably easy to defraud the system, when you think about it. All you need to do is under estimate your income an bin the repayment notices.

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

Theyve just completely moved the goalposts.

A recent report from the Institute for Fiscal Studies, no political bias with them, said the number of children living in poverty in the UK would more than double from 2.3 million to 4.7 million by 2020. They said they were "deeply concerned" by reports the Government was now planning to scrap the Child Poverty Act which requires ministers to put in place measures to eradicate child poverty.

There are over 90 000 children living in temporary hostels, Band Bs. Disgusting when the UK is one of the wealthiest countries in the World.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Ok then let's look at a scenario. IN 2020, with a minimum wage of £9, working 45hrs a week (fyi, £405) in a single parent family, or £20,250 per year. £750 pcm for a 2 bed house/flat. Housing benefit (if you're not lucky enough to get one for free) would subsidise that to about £500pcm and that's high. £6000 of your 20,250 gone - or £14,250. The average yearly dual fuel bill is £765. Water = circa £35. £13,450 or £259 a week for food - £100 average shop? £160/wk and including tax you're left with £95 for disposable income. And that's without further variables like tax credits, benefits, and for example your child getting a weekend job. I'd say you're closer to £115 a week accounting for such factors. That's £460 for spending a month.

[cosmicway 1,333]

From memory that restriction was removed.

It's remarkably easy to defraud the system, when you think about it. All you need to do is under estimate your income an bin the repayment notices.

Well I suppose you have to be someone mentioned in the news to get to you.

If I had the dough though I 'd give some to my old college.

They will make a "cosmicway fund" for future students.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

First Greek attempt at cash withdrawl this morning

[NishC300 1,865]

Varoufakis is a very interesting one. The Europeans asked for his head for the negotiations to continue even though, unlike his replacement, Varoufakis is not originally a leftist. But he's charismatic, is US schooled and speaks English very eloquently and very persuasively. Which just goes to show what the EU actually fears: it's not the Greek debt but the spreading of an anti-austerity movement that can actually make a change to the rest of Europe and beyond.

There is a huge anti-austerity anti-capitalist sentiment throughout Europe following the meltdown and the subsequent bailouts and austerity measure which are nothing short of a class war on the poor and working class. But there is no space for actual change inside the political parties and systems in Europe and the US but if a party like Syriza can win for the Greek people, then that would give rise to similar parties all over Europe. Their rise to power has already gained popular support for anti-austerity movements in Spain, Portugal, France...etc. Even Bernie Sanders in the US has been very popular as a result. Who would have thought that a socialist would be a serious presidential candidate in the US?!

And if it's not socialists like Sanders or leftists like Tsipras it's going to be right wing fascists and racists like Le Pen in France or Farage in the UK. The Germans have squeezed too hard. The need for a believable promise of genuine change is boiling under the surface. It's just a question of if someone/who can unleash the wave and then ride it.

Farage a right wing fascist?!?!?!

I love Sanders. Getting a lot of steam for his campaign, specifically from younger voters. I'm voting for him

Young voters are some of the most misinformed idiots, that would vote for someone without having a shred of knowledge about them. That's why lefties are always desperate to lower the voting age, gives them a chance to fool more kids.

The leftists approach things in childish fashion.

To them "democratic Europe" means the political parties they consider affiliated to them should win everywhere, every time.

That's impossible and even undemocratic indeed.

It further does n't follow that Europe under the influence of mainly SYRIZA type parties will knock on his door and say "here mister Tsipras, you can have all the euros you want and make them into confetti - we English, French, Portuguese patriotic socialists will pay the bill, hairdressers et al" !

In Europe there should be more direct democracy indeed.

It's not as if it is a dictatorship under generalissimo Franco now, but more democracy is needed.

Those who are in direct opposition to it are the eurosceptics who don't want any Europe at all.

Also the die hard reds who are still crying because the Soviet tanks failed to reach Calais,

In addition there should be a common fiscal policy.

We have common monetary policy but without common fiscal policiy we are like a team without goalkeeper indeed.

Once we elect who is in charge of finance -the "tzar" as is nicknamed- I don't see the problem. It's as democratic as any other democratic system.

Or rather break up this nonsense and let states look after their own business. Definitely wouldn't be a good idea to create a fiscal union.

One year since the murderous attack on Gaza killing over 2000.

One year on, there is still devastation, Israel even bans the import of planks of wood -they say they could be used as weapons.

Districts that had plumbing, electricity and communities now look like 'The Last of Us'.

Children and teenagers suffer from numerous nervous disorders, such as knawing their hands, and regularly wet the bed at night.

But what is fantastic is the spirit that has not been broken in many Palestinians

Are you talking about the spirit to eradicate the Jewish race from this planet? People sure were glad with the Nazis' spirit to mercilessly murder people, didn't die away - right?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Varoufakis is a very interesting one. The Europeans asked for his head for the negotiations to continue even though, unlike his replacement, Varoufakis is not originally a leftist. But he's charismatic, is US schooled and speaks English very eloquently and very persuasively. Which just goes to show what the EU actually fears: it's not the Greek debt but the spreading of an anti-austerity movement that can actually make a change to the rest of Europe and beyond.

There is a huge anti-austerity anti-capitalist sentiment throughout Europe following the meltdown and the subsequent bailouts and austerity measure which are nothing short of a class war on the poor and working class. But there is no space for actual change inside the political parties and systems in Europe and the US but if a party like Syriza can win for the Greek people, then that would give rise to similar parties all over Europe. Their rise to power has already gained popular support for anti-austerity movements in Spain, Portugal, France...etc. Even Bernie Sanders in the US has been very popular as a result. Who would have thought that a socialist would be a serious presidential candidate in the US?!

And if it's not socialists like Sanders or leftists like Tsipras it's going to be right wing fascists and racists like Le Pen in France or Farage in the UK. The Germans have squeezed too hard. The need for a believable promise of genuine change is boiling under the surface. It's just a question of if someone/who can unleash the wave and then ride it.

You are aware that all of the countries currently propping up the EU are all right wing countries ie UK and Germany. Austerity has worked for the UK at least, despite what you read fiscally we are in good shape. What Greece, France, Portugal etc need to learn (and has or will do) is that you don't bite the hand that feeds you, and once you survive on handouts instead of defaulting then you lose the liberty of fiscal choice.

Socialism has never worked. France tried it with Hollande, imposing super taxes on the rich and reducing working hours and brought a strong economy to its knees as the rich aka employers fled to other countries where it's cheaper to live and taking their business with them (see the Goodyear debacle) and I think he ended up implementing austerity anyway.

If somebody unleashes such a so called wave then all of the countries who are pro austerity will leave those countries to it (and the UK will leave the EU) and stop funding when they beg for a handout.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Farage a right wing fascist?!?!?!

Right wing racist, yes. His whole party is based on the idea of building fear from immigration. He almost literally has nothing else about him.

Are you talking about the spirit to eradicate the Jewish race from this planet? People sure were glad with the Nazis' spirit to mercilessly murder people, didn't die away - right?

Yes, because Palestinians are chasing Jews around the world to eradicate them right? It's not like Zionists came from all over the world to Palestine to take the lands and eradicate the people.

Even forget historical context for a second, your genuine belief is that the people besieging a small over-populated land with jets in the sky and tanks and warships all around are the ones being 'eradicated' while the ones trapped inside with little resources and a lot of destruction are the eradicators?! Do you even think, even for a second, about the rhetoric you repeat...

[CHOULO19 24,332]

You are aware that all of the countries currently propping up the EU are all right wing countries ie UK and Germany. Austerity has worked for the UK at least, despite what you read fiscally we are in good shape. What Greece, France, Portugal etc need to learn (and has or will do) is that you don't bite the hand that feeds you, and once you survive on handouts instead of defaulting then you lose the liberty of fiscal choice.

Yeah, absolutely, this world is owned by the rich and those undeserving poor should learn who's boss! They need to do as they are told in what benefits the rich and be happy about it because after all they themselves are owned by the rich that 'feed them'.

And that applies to all levels: be it poor people inside a country or poor countries inside a union. They shouldn't have a right to choice, they shouldn't have a say in what happens. They're fucking poor which is obviously all their fault and can only mean that they can't run anything. The rich and the powerful are the only ones entitled to decide for every one.

Brilliant, mate. Couldn't agree more!

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Yeah, absolutely, this world is owned by the rich and those undeserving poor should learn who's boss! They need to do as they are told in what benefits the rich and be happy about it because after all they themselves are owned by the rich that 'feed them'.

And that applies to all levels: be it poor people inside a country or poor countries inside a union. They shouldn't have a right to choice, they shouldn't have a say in what happens. They're fucking poor which is obviously all their fault and can only mean that they can't run anything. The rich and the powerful are the only ones entitled to decide for every one.

Brilliant, mate. Couldn't agree more!

?? missed the point completely. At the start of the Euro in 02 there were no poor countries and in fact, Greece should not have been allowed in anyway - it cooked its books.

The Eurocrats should have let Greece go bust anyway. It would have been best for the country but they decided giving them more debt to service to prop up the euro for a few more years would be better.

All you're suggesting is the poorer countries uprising and literally telling the creditors "Hey, while you're at it you can support our whole state cos we don't want to cut anything" when you live off somebody else's money, you make sacrifices. That's a pretty basic concept. When you live off food from food banks, you don't get to have steak anymore.

So I'll turn the argument on its head. Why do they have a right to live off my country's money? It's not like we're rolling in cash to give away.

[cosmicway 1,333]

Farage appears to be one of the extremists indeed.
All he cares about is immigration.
About everything else he either does n't comprehend or does n't care (economy - global security).
The congratulations he mailed to Greece for the so called "no" result of the referendum were read by the opposition in an effort to take the mickey out of the situation, but no government spokesman of mr. Tsipras party made any reference to them.

The Farage-Lepen doctrine turns the world into an endless domino of rival baathist regimes shooting rockets against one another. There are some sour grapes already, there will be new ones.

I believe he is one of the men in the Paris metro incident really.

As for Greece it was always European.
Leave the ancient and medieval history alone and look at today's world, the geopolitical structures that were created in the latter half of the twentieth century. It begins with Greece and the -Churchillian- Britain. The two countries were immensely different in size and strength but we talk in terms of the development of political doctrines, not size and strength.

Ok, the Moscow lovers will have none of it, I know, but that's how it happened. Can't be changed now guys. Sorry !

The British people themselves under a Farage regime will enjoy a junta like that of generalissimo Franco and Antonio de Oliveira Salazar.


Below one of Nigel's friends talking to the BBC:

[CHOULO19 24,332]

missed the point completely. At the start of the Euro in 02 there were no poor countries and in fact, Greece should not have been allowed in anyway - it cooked its books.

The Eurocrats should have let Greece go bust anyway. It would have been best for the country but they decided giving them more debt to service to prop up the euro for a few more years would be better.

All you're suggesting is the poorer countries uprising and literally telling the creditors "Hey, while you're at it you can support our whole state cos we don't want to cut anything" when you live off somebody else's money, you make sacrifices. That's a pretty basic concept. When you live off food from food banks, you don't get to have steak anymore.

So I'll turn the argument on its head. Why do they have a right to live off my country's money? It's not like we're rolling in cash to give away.

Was just pointing out how your point was coming across.

The reason they did not let Greece go bust was because Greece owed the vast majority of it's initial debt to German and French banks and since those banks actually run European finances and politics there was no way that they would allow Greece to go bankrupt and lose their money. So the Troika gave Greece 'bailouts' so that the German and French banks get their money back and at the same time force austerity measures that ensured that those new loans would be paid back not from the Greek banks and corporations that had the biggest hand in the debt in the first place but from ordinary working people.

At no point were the European loans handouts to Greece. They were loans with interest rates. The issue is that because Greece is in the Eurozone they could not deal with problems properly because they could not print out more money which is what they would have done if they had their own currency. Instead, the EU forced the austerity measures which are known to not work during with debts. That is a simple financial fact. The country's economy will always shrink faster than the debts.

What should have happened is what I posted on the previous page Iceland has done and proved to work. But the EU did not care about the Greek people from the start. They weren't bailing our the Greek people they were bailing out the Greek bankers as well as their own bankers back home. They bailed them out because the Euro and their own economy is liked to Greece's. It was a continuation of how Europe and the US coped with the crisis: bailing out the rich bankers that caused the crisis with the tax money of the already suffering poor and working people.

Finally, yes, Greece did already have a debt, but the largest part of its current debt is due to the 2008 financial crisis that was cause by the American and European banks. So the European governments are not guilt free of this crisis.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

Was just pointing out how your point was coming across.

The reason they did not let Greece go bust was because Greece owed the vast majority of it's initial debt to German and French banks and since those banks actually run European finances and politics there was no way that they would allow Greece to go bankrupt and lose their money. So the Troika gave Greece 'bailouts' so that the German and French banks get their money back and at the same time force austerity measures that ensured that those new loans would be paid back not from the Greek banks and corporations that had the biggest hand in the debt in the first place but from ordinary working people.

At no point were the European loans handouts to Greece. They were loans with interest rates. The issue is that because Greece is in the Eurozone they could not deal with problems properly because they could not print out more money which is what they would have done if they had their own currency. Instead, the EU forced the austerity measures which are known to not work during with debts. That is a simple financial fact. The country's economy will always shrink faster than the debts.

What should have happened is what I posted on the previous page Iceland has done and proved to work. But the EU did not care about the Greek people from the start. They weren't bailing our the Greek people they were bailing out the Greek bankers as well as their own bankers back home. They bailed them out because the Euro and their own economy is liked to Greece's. It was a continuation of how Europe and the US coped with the crisis: bailing out the rich bankers that caused the crisis with the tax money of the already suffering poor and working people.

Finally, yes, Greece did already have a debt, but the largest part of its current debt is due to the 2008 financial crisis that was cause by the American and European banks. So the European governments are not guilt free of this crisis.

Oh yes, I'm not condoning what Germany and France did to Greece a) to keep its Euro project afloat and b ) to repatriate its money. Ironic in that I'm saying that that was how your point was coming across.

Austerity is, imo, the way forwards, but in Greece's case, clearly the brakes were put on too quickly and without enough consultation from Greek ministers to know its effects. It also doesn't help that in joining the Euro it revoked most of its capital controls to the ECB and cannot print its own money - this was a massive factor, because it could not increase the viability of its core markets by depreciating its currency - see tourism.

I know you won't be a fan of Farage because you are left leaning, but left or right he makes sense on the Euro and Greece: (and this was 4 years ago, btw, and some of the speeches 6 years ago)

"Trapped in the Euro prison"

Fiscal union of such vibrantly different economies would never work (I'm confident that had the UK joined the Euro we would currently be in a Spain-sized hole). And giving Greece loans is just giving them further debt to service.

Greece should have gone bust early on, it would have saved them much pain now. But Eurocrats prioritised their grand project. The only comparable situation I can think of is the ERM I mechanism, where the pound was linked to the Deutschmark and Black Wednesday of 1992 where it all went tits up.

The whole EU is corrupt, many of its Eurocrats come from the CCCP, and it's now just a power grab based on the whole crux that the German taxpayer will pay for the Eurozone, while everything is centralised.

Regarding the Iceland way out, I haven't read about it enough to comment on it. But my preliminary view would be that it is a too small scale economy to be able to directly scale that up to an economy the size of PIIGS.

Apologies if my point came across in a snobbish way btw - it wasn't supposed to.

[cosmicway 1,333]

Or rather break up this nonsense and let states look after their own business. Definitely wouldn't be a good idea to create a fiscal union.

If there is a union at all it can only be of this type.

Otherwise it works like a man who has lost control of parts of his brain.
The alternative "lift the bridge - back to the trees", is whatever one thinks it is but rejects the entire union idea - or has to do so ultimately.

[cosmicway 1,333]

That's unfair as it comes with the "cooking of the books".

It happened but why did it happen ?

Since the poster goes back in time, I have to go back in time too, even though I don't like doing this a lot.

In 1967 a dictatorship was installed in Greece and NATO-EEC did n't do anything about it.
Some active support too.
In 1974 the pet dictatorship invades Cyprus, the Turkish allies betray them and counter-invade themselves.
Dictatorship falls, but Cyprus remains occupied.
Again NATO-EEC whistle carelessly.

Go stop the left wing lunatic fringe from growing in numbers now (n.b. the eventual book cookers or whatever).

So it's an anti-Greek statement really coming straight out of the ss-kommandatur of her Himmler.

In 1977 the EEC accepted Greece and Greece remained in NATO in spite of the afore mentioned injustices.
That was before the socialists gained power, K. Karamanlis was trying to mend things allover.
The precise of the European states was thus:

it is desirable to have Greece in the EEC for political and military reasons. It's weak economy makes it a little premature but the size of the country is small and so any problems are also likely to be small.

With socialists after 1981 it became dangerous.
I was expecting huge problems because at the same time Margaret Thatcher -the strict monetarist- was pm in London.
But nothing happened.
It appears Ronald Reagan came in between lured Andreas Papandreou and at the same time asked Maggie to stay quiet.
NATO was the all important thing those days.

Anyway the same men who are now anti-Greek on the bailout issue, were then calling for its destruction, the imposition of another dictatorship and so on.

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

[quote name="NishC300" post="1114968" timestamp="1436430265

Are you talking about the spirit to eradicate the Jewish race from this planet? People sure were glad with the Nazis' spirit to mercilessly murder people, didn't die away - right?

No the spirit of an oppressed people slaughtered and tortured by a racist state with endless state of the art weaponry supplied free by the US. You know this.

[NishC300 1,865]

Right wing racist, yes. His whole party is based on the idea of building fear from immigration. He almost literally has nothing else about him.

Yes, because Palestinians are chasing Jews around the world to eradicate them right? It's not like Zionists came from all over the world to Palestine to take the lands and eradicate the people.

Even forget historical context for a second, your genuine belief is that the people besieging a small over-populated land with jets in the sky and tanks and warships all around are the ones being 'eradicated' while the ones trapped inside with little resources and a lot of destruction are the eradicators?! Do you even think, even for a second, about the rhetoric you repeat...

It's not my fault you've not read the UKIP manifesto and actually seen their policies, but that doesn't matter Britian is waking up as now UKIP is the 3rd most popular party. So I'm not too worried about them. Actually talk to some UKIP supporters and you'll see what they truly stand for as a party. Yea a racist party which had an Indian girl promoting UKIP youth (and I believe even had a Muslim MP running in one of the constituencies).

Didn't know a guy who believes in small government and freedom was a fascist.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________

I am more than aware about the Israel issue, thank you very much. As a matter of fact, I wrote a resolution on it during my MUN (whole conference was full of anti-Israel bigots and had to hear all these people going on about Israel being an apartheid state).

Dunno where to start since this is a huge issue. I had no idea first of all, that one of the most tolerant countries in the world, Israel, is eradicating Palestinians. While barbaric, savage, murderous terrorists like Hamas (what's even more scary is they were democratically elected) who were building tunnels to murder innocent Israeli children, are the ones being oppressed.

Hamas leaders and their allies have all openly expressed on countless occasions, their desire to finish off Hitler's holocaust.

Are you aware about how much aid Israel sends to Gaza and how many Gazans are treated in Israeli hospitals? Who would do that to someone they were so hellbent on murdering? Do you think any Israeli would be helped by Hamas? HA NO WAY!

Israel gives them cement to build buildings, they build tunnels to kill Israelis. Oh those cruel Jews are torturing those poor Palestinians!

You know that they literally show cartoons of Mickey Mouse YES MICKEY MOUSE being killed by the Jews to get children ready to fight Israelis.

Those are some facts about the poor 'oppressed' Palestinians, and the 'evil' Israelis.

And finally, Israel uses the iron dome to protect their people from missiles, Hamas uses its people to protect their missiles.

EDIT: So to answer your question.

Do you honestly believe that the Zionists are the oppressors while the genocidal Hamas are the ones being oppressed?

No the spirit of an oppressed people slaughtered and tortured by a racist state with endless state of the art weaponry supplied free by the US. You know this.

RACIST STATE!?!?!? Israel is the only state where muslims can live freely and people of all faiths can happily practice their religion, while Hamas has stated this in their own charter:

"The prophet, prayer and peace be upon him, said:The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him!"

Yea support these people. Support the eventual aim to eradicate the Jewish race from the face of this planet.

The US sends countless amounts of aid to Gaza, WHICH HAMAS USES TO BUILD MISSILES RATHER THAN HELP THEIR OWN PEOPLE! They literally place rockets in UNWRA schools, the aid that we send to help Gazans is used to make the tools by which they aim to carry out their genocide of the Israeli people.

The Americans even refuse to move their embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem as well as the fact that they fund the Palestinian authority.

They're willing to open an embassy in Havana but not Jerusalem!?!?!

"You know this."

You know what I know?

I know that the media is cunningly depicting Israel, a symbol of freedom and democracy, in the Middle East seem evil while depicts its genocidal, extremist neighbours seem like victims.....

[cosmicway 1,333]

If UKIP picks on Greece they way they do -and make mrs Merkel look a saintly figure in the process- imagine what they have in store for the Brits. Probably that instrument with which they were measuring peoples noses in "der alte vaterland".
Their numbers is no surprise. The disaffliliation from the traditional Tories may be a surprise.