Politics & Stuff

[Stingray 9,441]

A lot of you are talking complete and utter crap. It has nothing to do with being progressive. If you say we should stick to facts, you should as well.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1556756

The proportion of heterosexual to homosexual pedohiles is about 11:1

Other research suggested homosexuality is in a degree mutually exclusive

"A random sample of 175 males convicted of sexual assault against children was screened with reference to their adult sexual orientation and the sex of their victims. The sample divided fairly evenly into two groups based on whether they were sexually fixated exclusively on children or had regressed from peer relationships. Female children were victimized nearly twice as often as male children. All regressed offenders, whether their victims were male or female children, were heterosexual in their adult orientation. There were no examples of regression to child victims among peer-oriented, homosexual males. The possibility emerges that homosexuality and homosexual pedophilia may be mutually exclusive and that the adult heterosexual male constitutes a greater risk to the underage child than does the adult homosexual male."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/666571/

Edit: more research suggests a 20:1 ratio, others drop down to a 2:1 ratio. Still, no evidence Gay = more pedophiles.

[Dion 2,476]

What I never understood about people who are against gay marriage is how does gay marriage affect them negatively? I just can't see it. How can someone be against something that doesn't directly affect them negatively in any way? And one that means a lot to the people who are denied from it. Both in regards to legal rights but also emotionally speaking. But again, I was never really good at understanding people.

[Fernando 6,585]

Its pretty simple, if you have a child and they are straight they won't get gay married anyway, and if you have a child and they are gay, it doesnt matter what school they do or don't go to, they'll still be gay, and you probably shouldn't be a parent if you can't love that kid all the same.

Learning about tolerance doesn't mean all the straight kids on the block are gunna start questioning their sexuality.

True point.

But tolerance.....would you apply tolerance for religious belief as well?

How do you react when someone says that they believe in the bible and it says homosexuality is a sin?

Surely the bible believer will not have tolerance preach at but be label a hater under discrimination....

So if we are to learn about tolerance then we must truly mean it for beliefs and lifestyle.

Not get fined for not wanting to bake a cake for a gay weeding because you don't hold the same beliefs.....

[Dion 2,476]

True point.

But tolerance.....would you apply tolerance for religious belief as well?

How do you react when someone says that they believe in the bible and it says homosexuality is a sin?

Surely the bible believer will not have tolerance preach at but be label a hater under discrimination....

So if we are to learn about tolerance then we must truly mean it for beliefs and lifestyle.

Not get fined for not wanting to bake a cake for a gay weeding because you don't hold the same beliefs.....

If you think homosexuality is a sin you're free to be heterosexual while allowing others to be whatever they want and leaving it to God to punish them later if it comes to that. Because homosexuals aren't harming anyone by being attracted to people of the same gender.

[Fernando 6,585]

If you think homosexuality is a sin you're free to be heterosexual while allowing others to be whatever they want and leaving it to God to punish them later if it comes to that. Because homosexuals aren't harming anyone by being attracted to people of the same gender.

That's the thing.

I have no problems with this.

But that's not what's happening is it?

I already brought about cases where business owners are getting harassed and fined because they don't want to cater to gay weddings.

[Dion 2,476]

That's the thing.

I have no problems with this.

But that's not what's happening is it?

I already brought about cases where business owners are getting harassed and fined because they don't want to cater to gay weddings.

I was not saying you, Fernando, just a hypothetical person who believes it is a sin.

As they should. If business owners are refusing to perform gay weddings simply because they are gay weddings they should be taken to court, just like if they were refusing to perform weddings between blacks or any other sort of stupid reason people will find to discriminate.

By the way, doesn't the Bible say God is the only judge or something like that? If that is so, religious people should abide to that and treat everyone equally and let the sinners burn in hell later or whatever. Anyhow I find the argument of sin very silly because I don't see any laws that prohibit eating competitions or people becoming obese despite gluttony being one of the seven deadly sins. I could spend all day listing sins that are not as frowned upon as homosexuality. It just strikes me as a strange reasoning really.

[Iggy Doonican 4,186]

The gay wedding cake what the fuck?. If the geezer didn't want to bake it all he had to say was sorry i'm to busy you'll have to go elsewhere. What is there to object to it's a fucking cake!.His business is now suffering and as a baker i'm sure he knead's the dough (sorry about that one). But what did he actually object to that it had a couple of plastic men or women on the top?. But it's almost beyond parody a gay wedding cake did he object that he couldn't get hold of enough pink colouring. I'm pretty sure if someone said it's my mate's birthday male or female i want the cake in the shape of a cock and balls he would have done it.

It's his business and he can run it how he likes but with all the negative media he's getting he's not exactly a visionary is he?.

[Fernando 6,585]

I was not saying you, Fernando, just a hypothetical person who believes it is a sin.

As they should. If business owners are refusing to perform gay weddings simply because they are gay weddings they should be taken to court, just like if they were refusing to perform weddings between blacks or any other sort of stupid reason people will find to discriminate.

By the way, doesn't the Bible say God is the only judge or something like that? If that is so, religious people should abide to that and treat everyone equally and let the sinners burn in hell later or whatever. Anyhow I find the argument of sin very silly because I don't see any laws that prohibit eating competitions or people becoming obese despite gluttony being one of the seven deadly sins. I could spend all day listing sins that are not as frowned upon as homosexuality. It just strikes me as a strange reasoning really.

But see you can't put the same category of black and homosexual. Black is out of racism, homosexuality is out of religions beliefs.

However you point to a great fact. That is that people tend to treat the sin of homosexuality as the greatest which is wrong.

A sin is a sin. No difference then lying, cursing, pre marital sex, adultery and such.

So yes there is a lot of hypocrisy there.

[DavidEU 2,023]

But see you can't put the same category of black and homosexual. Black is out of racism, homosexuality is out of religions beliefs.

It's nothing to do with religious beliefs. It's to do with some people in this world just being fucking stupid.

[Dion 2,476]

But see you can't put the same category of black and homosexual. Black is out of racism, homosexuality is out of religions beliefs.

However you point to a great fact. That is that people tend to treat the sin of homosexuality as the greatest which is wrong.

A sin is a sin. No difference then lying, cursing, pre marital sex, adultery and such.

So yes there is a lot of hypocrisy there.

To be honest, I think the religious argument is just a cop out for a discrimination that already exists, this is the reason why you don't see the same hate against other sins. Also, justifying a discrimination with religion has happened before, even with the example of blacks. In the past people tried to justify the existence of black skin and slavery in the bible too, they used the curse of Ham that time. I find it funny how religion is often used to oppress other people or justify terrible actions. Regardless of that, even if it is purely out of religion beliefs, it still doesn't make it right. It is not right to force your beliefs on others, especially when their actions cause 0 harm to you.

[Fernando 6,585]

To be honest, I think the religious argument is just a cop out for a discrimination that already exists, this is the reason why you don't see the same hate against other sins. Also, justifying a discrimination with religion has happened before, even with the example of blacks. In the past people tried to justify the existence of black skin and slavery in the bible too, they used the curse of Ham that time. I find it funny how religion is often used to oppress other people or justify terrible actions. Regardless of that, even if it is purely out of religion beliefs, it still doesn't make it right. It is not right to force your beliefs on others, especially when their actions cause 0 harm to you.

From a biblical point stand homosexuality is a sin. But it's not a case to put a person as an outcast. You suppose to love them, not reject them.

However we should let them know, hey this is what the bible says and that's wrong. Just like it's wrong to lie and do all the other stuff I mentioned.

That being said I believe in the bible and believe this is wrong.

But I will love them and forgive them.

Even when some homosexual offend my religious belief like this:

The true power of the gospel is this. To love your enemy and pray for them that they might convert.

Like the guy in South Carolina. He killed church members but the real power of the life changing gospel stood up and said we forgive this guy and we will pray for him that he will come to know the lord.

Or like this widow that forgives and pray that the ISIS member that martyr his husband will come to repentance.

Widow's Joy: He Didn't Deny Christ When Beheaded

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/June/Widows-Joy-He-Didnt-Deny-Christ-When-Beheaded/

[Dion 2,476]

From a biblical point stand homosexuality is a sin. But it's not a case to put a person as an outcast. You suppose to love them, not reject them.

However we should let them know, hey this is what the bible says and that's wrong. Just like it's wrong to lie and do all the other stuff I mentioned.

That being said I believe in the bible and believe this is wrong.

But I will love them and forgive them.

Even when some homosexual offend my religious belief like this:

The true power of the gospel is this. To love your enemy and pray for them that they might convert.

Like the guy in South Carolina. He killed church members but the real power of the life changing gospel stood up and said we forgive this guy and we will pray for him that he will come to know the lord.

Or like this widow that forgives and pray that the ISIS member that martyr his husband will come to repentance.

Widow's Joy: He Didn't Deny Christ When Beheaded

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2015/June/Widows-Joy-He-Didnt-Deny-Christ-When-Beheaded/

I'm not saying those portrayals of Christ are right or anything, but you must see that in context. Homosexuals as of today are a minority and they are discriminated. This is a fact. It is also a fact that one of the main obstacles they face is the religious lobby against them, as such it is no wonder that they are attacking what they see as one of their main enemies. If Christianity wasn't threatening their existence and their legal rights I don't think they would have done that. Seriously doubt it. I can't even imagine what it must be like for them. I mean, it annoys me enough that people are against homosexuality for seemingly no valid reason at all, I'd probably be burning down churches if I was being denied civil rights for being gay on top of that.

[iseah100 5,612]

Well there's other problems that bother me.

If I don't believe in gay marriage then how does it feel when they teach this as Okay in the school for kids?

This leads no choice but to go to some private school or home school since public schools are teaching things that go against my belief.

So that thing annoys me already.

It is okay. That's why.

It's nothing to do with religious beliefs. It's to do with some people in this world just being fucking stupid.

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[NishC300 1,865]

Lol I think, really you know that Israel is a bullying state inflicting holocaust on the Palestinians, slaughtering women and children with high tech weaponry

ah a BDS lover.

That's not really answering the points, to be honest. You'd of thought that if Scalia thinks that the justice system and the way the supreme court works is an "attack on democracy" he would not have become a judge...

Anyway, let's stop pretending it's about how it happened because there is a very clear fear in your posts that make it evident that it is not. Whether it is fear of the unknown or due religious beliefs or some other reason I do not know but it is very irrational.

Yes they have and continue to be although I really don't understand why that needs to be a 'prerequisite' to them getting their human rights. They are humans and humans have the right to equality under the law and the right to marry. Hence their human rights were being violated prior to the ruling on Friday(?).

No, that's incest and that has nothing to do with homosexuality as you can easily replace that example with a brother and sister. Incest is illegal and will remain so because because it is not a human characteristic. No one is born incestuous, a lot of people are born homosexual. That is a scientific fact.

Anyway, that is some incredible piece of fear-mongering. What you are scared of literally has NOTHING to do with homosexuality. What happens now that gay marriage is legal? Well it really doesn't take a fortune teller to answer that, just look at the TENS of countries that have long since legalized it. I'm happy to tell you that the sky has not fallen in any of them.

The rest of the post is more of the same along with victimizing homphobes, so let me try to make it very simple:

If you are interested only in a 'traditional marriage' then gay marriage does not affect that in any possible manner. That is simply a fact. You're calling the continued brutal attack on the rights and freedom of LGBT people a 'defense of traditional marriage' even though traditional marriage literally and demonstrably has nothing to do with this. I'm sorry that those homophobes don't get to persecute and marginalize this minority that they are so used to abusing and mistreating, but if we are to live in democratic states based on equality then that it simply not possible.

No one can be 'brainwashed' into homosexuality. Unless you are born with that sexual orientation you can't be 'talked into it'. That is a scientific fact. Kids are being 'brainwashed' to accepting homosexuals for what they were born as in hopes that the abuse they get decreases. Too radical, I know...

Usually in controversial 'issues' there are valid points for both views. This is NOT one of those issues. There simply is NO case for preventing a minority from practicing their basic human rights that do not affect you, your rights and freedom in any possible way just because it doesn't conform with your version of morality.

So please STOP.

So for starters yes, I am a believer in traditional marriage and no, my original point was regarding the SCOTUS. As for this 'fear mongering' homophobe nonsense, I didn't know voicing genuine concerns about how people could exploit, turning the definition of marriage from the union of a man and a woman to "2 people who love each other" is considered homophobic or voicing concerns about how this may result in people losing their religious freedom. I'm guessing you consider people like Ryan Anderson (not the NBA player) homophobic too.

In that case I think you clearly don't know the definition of 'homophobe'. Homophobes are those people who go around making banners like "God Hates Fags" not people who are concerned and wish to have civilised discourse regarding the situation. If anything it's those who believe in traditional marriage who are behaving in a more civilised manner. Gay rights activists freely go around labeling anyone they disagree with 'homophobes' while despite all this demonisation of traditional marriage believers, they have kept their calm and continue to engage in civlised discourse.

Ever heard anyone say anything about Dan Savage's countless hateful comments? I'm guessing the fact that numerous gay rights activists openly display bigotry towards those who disagree with them is of no concern to you, but however a baker who kindly declines an offer for a cake is a bigot to you.

Just think about this for a moment, imagine if someone stood up and cracked a joke on religion or even went as far as insulting religion. No would even bat an eyelid as a matter of fact people freely and fearlessly insult religion. Almost all the major comedians do. However, imagine if that same person cracked a joke on let's say...................... homosexuals? People would rage with their 'politically correct anger', pretending to gasp and being highly offended on behalf of someone else. Forget that, you're labeling people homophobes for politely declining an offer to bake a cake!!!!! Wonder which side is bigoted here.....

I'm guessing ofc you have no problem with a priest getting spat on in a gay parade (what's beautiful though was that the priest actually forgave them for that). I guess you don't have a problem with some of the ways that bakers are being bullied and having their religious freedom infringed upon. I guess you don't have a problem with some of the pictures which @Fernando posted.

But ofc none of that is hateful but those who want to find a solution to this issue through civilised discussion are bigots, homophobes etc.

As for the how you claim it won't affect traditional marriage believers, well that's wrong as it has - in Canada. This is being used as a mechanism to bully religious institutions and you can check out this video where Brian Lilley talks about some of them (as well as something he doesn't mention about the new sex-ed program in place in Canada).

And yes there are valid points for both sides, it's not my fault if you haven't researched them and don't read both side's point of views.

As for why I believe in traditional marriage? It has nothing to do with my religion - as I stated earlier, Hinduism makes no reference to homosexuality. Furthermore, many gay rights activists claim that it tolerates it. My views are entirely my own. They have been crafted through research and reading what each side has to say until I made my own opinion. Additionally, I'm not someone who'll just believe what 'everyone else does' like some lamb (there is a Greek saying about that) because I'm more than capable of thinking for myself.

As for this myth that 'only religious people' believe in protecting traditional marriage because 'some book orders them to' is an utterly false notion. There are many secular cases to protect traditional marriage and I know some atheists/agnostics personally who believe in traditional marriage.

[Fulham Broadway 17,311]

ah a BDS lover.

Whats BDS ?