🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Ruben Loftus-Cheek

[Unionjack 7,531]

1 hour ago, Jype said:

I'd give him a full season post-injury. It was always going to be a long and difficult road fully recovering from the achilles problem and he's played what, 300-400 minutes?

Last season was a total write-off for Ruben because even though he managed to sneak in a few sub appearances and a couple starts after the restart, those were him taking his first steps towards a return after more than a year without football so he was never going to be good immediately. And he's still clearly not there and severely lacking match fitness. Should also be noted that against Brighton it was not only him who was bad, many others looked rusty as well although not so much as Ruben. If only there was a normal full pre-season with many friendlies, RLC could have really benefited from that coming into the new season.

So this season I'd use him in a rotational role in the league and a starter in the domestic cups to see if he gets any better. Chances are he'll never fulfill his potential because of so many injuries but that doesn't mean he can't still be at least a decent squad player for the team. And he has a good fighting mentality, under Sarri he was restricted to a backup role but eventually forced his way into the starting lineup through hard work. Not saying he's likely to do that now with the likes of Mount and Havertz competing for the same positions but if he shows the same mentality now, he'll not be happy with his own performances either and try to work harder to improve.

Wouldn't play him against Liverpool in this form but next week's league cup game should be a good opportunity for him.

If by the end of the season we've not seen enough improvement a move can be considered, especially if Gallagher has played for WBA and needs to be included in the squad.

I dont see his problem now being fitness. Hes got the Yips. He doesn't want to get injured again so shys away and doesn't get stuck in. Hes a big strong boy. His majot wkill was he got into tank mode. If he cant do that its a problem. Give him a year away and hope.

[communicate 2,703]

3 hours ago, Jype said:

I'd give him a full season post-injury. It was always going to be a long and difficult road fully recovering from the achilles problem and he's played what, 300-400 minutes?

Last season was a total write-off for Ruben because even though he managed to sneak in a few sub appearances and a couple starts after the restart, those were him taking his first steps towards a return after more than a year without football so he was never going to be good immediately. And he's still clearly not there and severely lacking match fitness. Should also be noted that against Brighton it was not only him who was bad, many others looked rusty as well although not so much as Ruben. If only there was a normal full pre-season with many friendlies, RLC could have really benefited from that coming into the new season.

So this season I'd use him in a rotational role in the league and a starter in the domestic cups to see if he gets any better. Chances are he'll never fulfill his potential because of so many injuries but that doesn't mean he can't still be at least a decent squad player for the team. And he has a good fighting mentality, under Sarri he was restricted to a backup role but eventually forced his way into the starting lineup through hard work. Not saying he's likely to do that now with the likes of Mount and Havertz competing for the same positions but if he shows the same mentality now, he'll not be happy with his own performances either and try to work harder to improve.

Wouldn't play him against Liverpool in this form but next week's league cup game should be a good opportunity for him.

If by the end of the season we've not seen enough improvement a move can be considered, especially if Gallagher has played for WBA and needs to be included in the squad.

It is difficult to find playing time for ruben in this team, we have so many attacker, even Barkley right now is so much better than ruben. Unless we have injury crisis, It is hard to see ruben get enough playing time to get his mojo back

[Jype 6,398]

29 minutes ago, communicate said:

It is difficult to find playing time for ruben in this team, we have so many attacker, even Barkley right now is so much better than ruben. Unless we have injury crisis, It is hard to see ruben get enough playing time to get his mojo back

Yeah, it's certainly not an ideal situation for him. He needs minutes to even have a chance of getting back to his best but then again in most games the team can't afford to play someone who's so out of form at the moment.

It's really sad how unlucky he's been. Last season would've been perfect for him to build on his 2018/19 good form and really start cementing his place in the team but then he went and missed the whole year to the injury and is still very much playing catch-up on others competing for the same places.

I wouldn't give up on him just yet but let's see how it goes. For now he should only start in cup games and maybe play a sub role in some comfortable league games to get back some match fitness and confidence. If he starts getting better, his role can be increased later on. 

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Tomo 21,751]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

Not aimed at you but these headlines will be excruciating this season. We've got a massive squad which means players won't make the bench.

 The last time we had a squad with this much depth was Mou 1.0, pick any random game from that era and you'll notice a big abscense or 2 from the matchday squad.

[Jase 43,479]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Not aimed at you but these headlines will be excruciating this season. We've got a massive squad which means players won't make the bench.

 The last time we had a squad with this much depth was Mou 1.0, pick any random game from that era and you'll notice a big abscense or 2 from the matchday squad.

But in the case of our midfield, it is quite bloated to be honest.

1. Jorginho

2. Kante

3. Kovacic

4. Barkley

5. Gilmour

6. Mount

7. Havertz

8. Loftus-Cheek

If we play 4-3-3, then Mount and Havertz could be counted as options for the midfield and that would mean we have 8 players for that area, which is A LOT. Even if we take those two out, 6 for 3 positions is a lot and if we play 4-2-3-1, then it is SERIOUSLY TOO MANY players for the midfield area.

[killer1257 3,282]

Loan him out

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[Costa19 858]

Another strange one from Frank. He starts vs Brighton and now left out completely. Only Mountnaldo is safe around Franky..

[NikkiCFC 8,319]

With Havertz here one of RLC or Barkley was always extra. We thought Barkley would be sold but Frank rates him and RLC did not used his chances.

[Atomiswave 6,117]

RLC needs a loan this window, injuries and lack of playing time have fucked him up.

[Jase 43,479]

Aston Villa reportedly interested in Loftus-Cheek...

 

[Jype 6,398]

18 minutes ago, Jason said:

Aston Villa reportedly interested in Loftus-Cheek...

 

Would be a decent move for him I think.

I haven't given up on him at all, but in this current moment I can't see him getting enough games to fully overcome his problems if he stays this season. A year out on loan at a PL side could do him a lot of good and depending on how he gets on, there might still be a place for him to return next year. 

Barkley has been playing decently in the first few games this season and is clearly ahead of RLC in Lampard's books at the moment. Ruben was mysteriously missing from the lineup altogether tonight despite the League Cup being one of the best opportunities for him to gain match sharpness so I think there might be some truth to this rumor.

Zouma got his act together out on loan after his bad injury and made a return so I don't see any reason why RLC couldn't as well. 

[King Kante 1,643]

For me if RLC was sold I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The guy is pushing 25 and has yet to prove he can keep himself fit for more than six months, still does zero work off the ball and continues to dine off the hype that he built up 7 years ago. 

For sure, Barkley is similar but I do not really see much difference as whilst RLC has a little more quality on the ball at least you know Barkley can stay fit.

[Jype 6,398]

10 minutes ago, King Kante said:

For me if RLC was sold I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. The guy is pushing 25 and has yet to prove he can keep himself fit for more than six months, still does zero work off the ball and continues to dine off the hype that he built up 7 years ago. 

For sure, Barkley is similar but I do not really see much difference as whilst RLC has a little more quality on the ball at least you know Barkley can stay fit.

Thing is though, RLC at his best is/was a much better player than Barkley has ever shown to be.

But he needs game time and a continued period without injuries to have any chance of making it. He won't do that at Chelsea atm but if he was loaned out there's a chance he might get there elsewhere.

Under no circumstance would I sell him on a permanent deal now and I don't think there'd be anyone willing to pay good money for him right now anyway due to his achilles problem. He's under contract till 2024 and has no transfer fee amortisation value hanging over his head so a loan should be relatively straightforward to sort out because the loaning club would only need to pay his wages, so for a club like Aston Villa it'd be a low-risk high-reward deal. If he can't get regain his pre-injury level out on loan, a more permanent solution can be found in another year or two but if he were to get back to his best level he would most certainly still be an asset to the club and could take a place in the squad again next year when some changes in midfield are bound to happen (some question marks over Jorginho, Kante, Barkley).

Of course there's a concrete chance he would never return again with younger prospects like Gallagher, Gilmour trying their best to break through but still a loan deal would be 1000x better than selling now. I don't think Lampard has given up on him either.

[Hutcho 8,443]

Villa loan would be decent. Playing with jack grealish may not be a bad thing and villa whilst aren't a great team may be a better fit for him than if he went to a less attacking (but maybe better) team

[King Kante 1,643]

14 minutes ago, Jype said:

Thing is though, RLC at his best is/was a much better player than Barkley has ever shown to be.

But he needs game time and a continued period without injuries to have any chance of making it. He won't do that at Chelsea atm but if he was loaned out there's a chance he might get there elsewhere.

Under no circumstance would I sell him on a permanent deal now and I don't think there'd be anyone willing to pay good money for him right now anyway due to his achilles problem. He's under contract till 2024 and has no transfer fee amortisation value hanging over his head so a loan should be relatively straightforward to sort out because the loaning club would only need to pay his wages, so for a club like Aston Villa it'd be a low-risk high-reward deal. If he can't get regain his pre-injury level out on loan, a more permanent solution can be found in another year or two but if he were to get back to his best level he would most certainly still be an asset to the club and could take a place in the squad again next year when some changes in midfield are bound to happen (some question marks over Jorginho, Kante, Barkley).

Of course there's a concrete chance he would never return again with younger prospects like Gallagher, Gilmour trying their best to break through but still a loan deal would be 1000x better than selling now. I don't think Lampard has given up on him either.

This is all well and good but RLC is 25 in January, he isn't 21 anymore. Further, he has serious deficiencies (zero off the ball work) in his game, that were still clearly there when he had is sole consistent 3 months for us at the end if Sarri's reign. 

Let's be honest, RLC has been riding a hype train since he was 16/17 and there hasn't been any hard proof that the talent he showed in the youth ranks can translate to the pro game on a consistent basis. Sure, he is silky on the ball when in the mood and fit, but that has only been glimsped twice which was the middle of his spell at Palace and then Feb/March-May 2019. That is about a total of 6 months for a 24 year old bloke that made his debut at 17. 

[Jype 6,398]

8 minutes ago, King Kante said:

This is all well and good but RLC is 25 in January, he isn't 21 anymore. Further, he has serious deficiencies (zero off the ball work) in his game, that were still clearly there when he had is sole consistent 3 months for us at the end if Sarri's reign. 

Let's be honest, RLC has been riding a hype train since he was 16/17 and there hasn't been any hard proof that the talent he showed in the youth ranks can translate to the pro game on a consistent basis. Sure, he is silky on the ball when in the mood and fit, but that has only been glimsped twice which was the middle of his spell at Palace and then Feb/March-May 2019. That is about a total of 6 months for a 24 year old bloke that made his debut at 17. 

I don't think at this point anyone's under any illusion that all flaws in Ruben's game will magically disappear and he'll turn into an absolute world beater but that doesn't mean he can't still be a very useful player if he can overcome his current problems. For all his deficiencies, he offers some qualities no one else in the team has and for me that's enough to earn himself a place in the squad but probably not in his current state.

He had a good year out on loan at Palace and under Sarri it wasn't just three months of good performances, I'd say he impressed pretty much every time he played but Sarri only realised that halfway through the season when he began using RLC more regularly. The Ruben from August 2017 - May 2019 was definitely good enough to be a Chelsea player, he only needed a platform to really show what he can do. Even then he might not have been a world class player and with the likes of Havertz having joined he probably wouldn't start in this current Chelsea team even at his best but I won't accept anyone telling me he wasn't a lot better than the likes of Ross Barkley. If he can go on loan to see if he can get back to that level and show some consistency, I'd happily let him go and then see later whether he should come back or not.

[Jase 43,479]

Southampton latest to be linked with Loftus-Cheek...

 

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

22 hours ago, Costa19 said:

Another strange one from Frank. He starts vs Brighton and now left out completely. Only Mountnaldo is safe around Franky..

Hardly as it Ruben has done anything to put tree ups under Frank. I get he was injured but even Callum after a long lay off had a foot in and did much better at the start of the year. 

Ruben is the same sort of player as Pogba or an Ozil, not playing style wise or stature wise but he is effectively a luxury player and only useful if you have the ball. If he doesnt affect the game in the offensive actions, what does he do? Really? When we don’t have the ball he is liable to be a weakness highlighted by other teams in terms of his languid style and lack of effort or intensity off it, be it pressing or getting back into position.

It may be a bit unfair to brand him as this but even under Sarri I felt the same, he was an issue if we pressed teams because his intensity wasn't the same as the others and he would be on his heels as opposed to going on the triggers. Little things like this can affect your pressing hugely. Its all good everyone has to go together but its got to be coordinated.

The links to Southampton is weird also because they are a high line, pressing sort of team....

[King Kante 1,643]

On 24/09/2020 at 0:10 AM, Jype said:

I don't think at this point anyone's under any illusion that all flaws in Ruben's game will magically disappear and he'll turn into an absolute world beater but that doesn't mean he can't still be a very useful player if he can overcome his current problems. For all his deficiencies, he offers some qualities no one else in the team has and for me that's enough to earn himself a place in the squad but probably not in his current state.

He had a good year out on loan at Palace and under Sarri it wasn't just three months of good performances, I'd say he impressed pretty much every time he played but Sarri only realised that halfway through the season when he began using RLC more regularly. The Ruben from August 2017 - May 2019 was definitely good enough to be a Chelsea player, he only needed a platform to really show what he can do. Even then he might not have been a world class player and with the likes of Havertz having joined he probably wouldn't start in this current Chelsea team even at his best but I won't accept anyone telling me he wasn't a lot better than the likes of Ross Barkley. If he can go on loan to see if he can get back to that level and show some consistency, I'd happily let him go and then see later whether he should come back or not.

I would disagree that he was good in the initial part of Sarri's reign or that he was good throughout his whole Palace loan (of which I think he only played 24 games with some of those being sub appearances and with a lot of his starts he would get subbed off.) In both seasons he took a while to get going and had niggly/long term injury problems. 

My views on Barkley v RLC is that both are deeply flawed players. For me, Barkley lacks any football intelligence and doesn't have anywhere near the ability on the ball that some people give him credit for. However, he does make a good fist of recovering the ball and is able to track runners from midfield. RLC on the other hand is completely dire off the ball and cannot a) play 90 minutes of football (even in his good Sarri spell he was always subbed off between 60-70 mins looking knackered) and stay off the treatment table to even play 60 minutes consistently across a season. However, he is good on the ball and can be a difference maker.

Hence, as both players are essentially going to play back up to Mount/Havertz the question has to be, which one do you prefer? If you favour pure ability on the ball and are unconcerned about fitness, then RLC is your boy, if you want someone who will always be ready and can help close games out, then it will be Barkley. 

To be honest, I do not really have really strong opinions on which one gets to stay as I think both of them are seriously flawed. These flaws are also why I will not lose any sleep over the final decision as I accept one has to go and who ever does stay will continue to infuriate but in different ways.