🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[Iggy Doonican 4,187]

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If we can get even four to the level of their potential or close (one down three to go as James is a dead cert for me) and a further four as solid squad players that's a third of our squad down, and hundreds of millions saved which will allow scope for bigger signings in the market

To many ifs and buts to be honest. The stand out player is Reece the rest and I am factoring in their age are not guarantees I hope they are.

[Tomo 21,751]

Just now, Iggy Doonican said:

To many ifs and buts to be honest. The stand out player is Reece the rest and I am factoring in their age are not guarantees I hope they are.

Maybe, but given the amount we've invested in the academy plus their results at that age it would be mental not to give it a go. Low risk, huge reward. City and Liverpool being where they gives all the more reason to as we don't have the option of a quick fix (like we did in 2014/15 when we replaced KDB/Salah with more ready now players) as we're building to pounce on any drop off.

[Iggy Doonican 4,187]

7 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Maybe, but given the amount we've invested in the academy plus their results at that age it would be mental not to give it a go. Low risk, huge reward. City and Liverpool being where they gives all the more reason to as we don't have the option of a quick fix (like we did in 2014/15 when we replaced KDB/Salah with more ready now players) as we're building to pounce on any drop off.

Good post and makes perfect sense but it's Chelsea and we are so unpredictable that anything could happen.

[Superblue 6,372]

1 hour ago, Iggy Doonican said:

To many ifs and buts to be honest. The stand out player is Reece the rest and I am factoring in their age are not guarantees I hope they are.

None will be a guarantee at that age, not even Reece.

We only have to look at the manager, someone who looked nowhere near the player he would become until he was 24/25.

I think at the very least, and what @Tomo is saying is all of the younger players have shown in stages this season (or last season for RLC and CHO) that they are capable of performing at this level and being big important factors in Chelsea winning games, it's just not on a consistent enough basis at present (and that would include Pulisic into that bracket also). The hope is that consistency will come with experience but if it doesn't I think what this season has at least shown is the club can be confident now to lean far more on the academy in the future compared to previously. If some of these players never reach their full potential all of them have proven at the very minimum they can be solid Premier League players and offer depth as squad players.

In turn this will stop us forking out small fortunes on players such as Drinkwater and Zappacosta. That summer we really should have kicked on but chose quantity over quality and look how far back we are now. Instead of spending £75m on Drinkwater and Bakayoko we would have been better served giving RLC more chances and spending top dollar on a higher quality midfielder. Instead we sold a first choice midfielder and let RLC out on loan who performed well enough at Palace to go to the World Cup and we were left with two midfielders who turned out to be a living nightmare.

This time 6 months ago most of us were looking at our squad and it seemed easier to count how many players were good enough to keep rather than how many were not, but with the influx from the academy and some of the positive contributions they've made this season I think if we can add 2 or 3 top quality players over this window and the summer and another couple the following summer we'll hopefully be in an extremely strong position to take advantage of City and Liverpool then needing to start making changes to sides who's mostly best players will be on the wrong side of 30 by then. City and Liverpool are well ahead of the pack at present and therefore it makes even more sense over the next couple of seasons to build slowly and quietly and see just how far some of these players can reach.

 

[Atomiswave 6,120]

If Lampard thinks our defeat was all about finishing and that Kante played excellently then we really have to worry.

Kante was far from excellent and our defeat had fuck all to do with finishing. Maybe he is bullshiting.

Corners and set-pieces are a huge part of the game but sadly we really suck ass at both ends.

[Special Juan 28,758]

1 minute ago, Mana said:

Sorry, this is a lie. He has THIS window. I'm not stupid, he needs more than one window to sort the shite out. I get that. But to bring in nobody? Not even a loan? You can't even do a Pulisic and secure a player for next season? We are drowning and in the next 4 games we could be completely drowned.

 

This window isn't over, and even me as one of the most skeptical Chelsea fans when it comes to transfers is optimistic, we will get something done I am sure of it.

On the flip side I am not sure we leave stuff so late all the time.

[OneMoSalah 9,098]

I dont think City and Liverpool are that far away. It is maybe difficult to see it now but remember the season we recalled Courtois, bought Costa and Cesc for our starting 11 and went to win the league? After finishing 3rd the previous season where Hazard, Matic and Azpi were probably our best quality of players in that period compared with the others?

Weve still got good players but with 3 or 4 players of the right quality, in key positions and an improvement in our shape/organisation/team structure (which has been an issue this season), we can compete.

Hopefully Tammy, Mason, Andreas, Ruben, Tomori, Reece will continue to play (if they deserve to thought) and develop, becoming better players too in the next season or two but I do think with 3 or 4 very good additions in weakspots in our team, we can be right up there. Maybe not next season but the one after? The young guys do need to come of age and there is huge potential with some of them but it will be a gradual process undoubtedly. I think a few players between 23-26 who are already pretty established at a good level and experienced along with one or two smart short term deals (ie Cavani) can definitely help us.

As stated above by Vesper in the next 4 or 5 years City and Liverpools main bulk of their squad will be older. Theyll buy to replace but even then City lost Kompany and you can see the impact thats had, they will lose Silva at the end this season and Aguero probably the season after. They werent/arent just top players, they are huge figureheads in the dressing room which you need to be successful too. Leroy Sane is definitely not a cert to stay either. De Bruyne, Sterling and B. Silva are still incredible players but at the same time I dont think any team can just replace an Aguero or a David Silva or a Kompany. These guys arent/werent just top players, they are almost as vital to City as Drogba, Cole  Lampard, Cech and Terry were to us as figures. 

[Tomo 21,751]

26 minutes ago, Mana said:

 

Lampard has failed with Derby County 

Absolute bolax.

[Tomo 21,751]

Just now, Mana said:

Lol. He took Derby from 6th to 6th. 

Nonsense, he maintained a league position while completely overhauling their style of play and then going one better in the play off.

Critisize some of his tactics or recent performances all you like, heck even say you'd rather someone else, but to say he failed at Derby and is showing absolutely zero signs of becoming a top coach is the biggest load of horseshit I've ever read.

[Atomiswave 6,120]

He could become a supreme manager IF he fucking learns from his mistakes and is backed with quality, not 1sec before. I for one dont get the Klopp comparison, Klopp was proven, Lamps aint.

[Atomiswave 6,120]

2 minutes ago, Mana said:

I'm just asking what has he done that he should manage one of the biggest clubs in world football?

Nothing, its a risk we took, the same with utd. He has shown he can cut it here and there but at the same time plenty signs that he is a rookie. Lets hope for the best.

[OneMoSalah 9,098]

24 minutes ago, Mana said:

Lol. He took Derby from 6th to 6th. He lost in the championship play-off final. That to me (especially the last part), is failure.

He didnt neccessarily fail but I said before we appointed him it was hardly a hugely outstanding feat. Thats the stark truth but for his first job, it was a step in the right direction for his trajectory as a manager.

There was a lot of subplots because they cut their wage bill, reduced the average age of the squad and changed their style etc but his records at Derby and here show one thing: his teams really cannot keep clean sheets and arent clinical enough. 

I still think Frank has put his stamp on the team, the youngsters are proof of that but if he keeps us in the top 4 this season he will remain for sure. There is a lot to be desired still about how we play and some of it is down to the quality we have and some of it due to coaching. The defensive set up at corners, ingame management at times and restricted use of more senior players who maybe arent amazing but could have offered something different to others (in a season where he wouldnt know if he could buy players) has annoyed me though. He was making mistakes earlier on tactically but looked as if he was learning from them but now it seems as if he isnt. Hopefully he will go back to learning from his own mistakes and get us going again.

His saving graces so far are his affinity with the club (although his reputation as a player has to be put to one side when regarding him as a manager), the fact we are still in the top 4 and the youngsters being given a chance. We have been lucky that Spurs Mourinho appointment hasnt neccessarily brought the results many would of expected and that OGS has been the managerial equivalent of Ali Dia at United. How he has walked into that job and continued to keep it is beyond me (and how we havent beaten his side everytime weve played them too).

He does need to add to the group, anyone can see that and as well as the young guys who didnt play PL football last season who are quickly learning and need to mature, he also has to learn and mature as a manager. He was a risky appointment, undoubtedly, but there have been some good signs this season although there have been some worrying ones too. I said before Sarri went we should of tried harder to keep him, although the discontent and uncertainty from the fans and board, he was never gonna stay as soon as Juve moved - I mean Juve are Juve and they wanted him. Or went all out for Allegri. But here we are so we have to back what weve got.

The Pep and Zidane comparisons regarding ex players at their clubs was always a bad thing to hold Lampard to though. And many on here did it or used it as some sort of hope that it would be straight forward for Frank as it perhaps was for those 2 at Barca and Real.

[Tomo 21,751]

3 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

He could become a supreme manager IF he fucking learns from his mistakes and is backed with quality, not 1sec before. I for one dont get the Klopp comparison, Klopp was proven, Lamps aint.

If it's all about being "proven" then we should have appointed Jose or Wenger and be done with it.

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

Derby were played off the park in the final. It's not as if Derby were unlucky in the final.

People seem to forget that football is a results-business. He lost. He failed to take Derby to the PL. He could have tried again, and finish what he started but in the end abandoned the project because we came calling for him.

I'm not saying he hasn't got ZERO signs of being a top coach. I'm just asking what has he done that he should manage one of the biggest clubs in world football? Why should I trust Lampard that he is going to take Chelsea to the top?

What he's doing in Chelsea right now is nothing more than work experience. This is his SECOND season coaching.

That doesn't mean he outrightly failed, and the irony is you're suggesting we should replace him with someone who's repeatedly been outsmarted at crunch moments himself.

At the start of the season many people (and I'm guessing you were one of them) were saying we'd be lucky to even make Europe, so surely the fact were in the top four in itself is encouragement he's got something about him? 

I'm not 100% sure he will become a top manager but I've seen more than enough to encourage me he could, and there's a projected end product that looks good, here's a few bullet points.

- He's had us winning three big away games (Ajax, Arsenal, Spurs) after more than two years not winning a single one, and ALL three of them were in a lot part down to his tactics/adjustment's.

- We went toe to toe with two of the best sides in PL history, if not the top two. Liverpool had to park the bus to escape the Bridge with three points, this was finished article Liverpool vs young players and a manager five games into top flight football. We lost the games due to them being more experienced and clinical but the fact we actually went toe to toe with them and competed at this stage was outstanding.

- When it's come off it's been really good. Watford away especially was an absolute delight to watch.

- He has improved players despite you saying otherwise. Tomori looked like he was finding his level in the Championship until Frank got hold of him, Kova looks a different player this season, Pulisic has started producing numbers that he wasn't really known for, Tammy and Mount are better all round players, Willian is probably having his best season with the club.

Am I happy with everything he's done? No, I'm particularly vocal at my irritation of the Jorgi/Kova/Mount midfield being broke up prematurely (which in my opinion had cost us atleast 7 points) and i do expect evolvement year on year (less and less of the naiveity we can sometimes see) but all things considered (transfer embargo, losing Hazard, trying to rebuild a core with academy players, all in sundry thinking we'd be lucky to finish top half) he's doing a fine job and I've seen more than enough encouragement there's a potential top coach there.

[Atomiswave 6,120]

2 minutes ago, Tomo said:

If it's all about being "proven" then we should have appointed Jose or Wenger and be done with it.

No thats a very simplistic way to look at it. Both them you mentioned was proven but got old and stubborn. Poch for instance aint proven either as many would say but most would say he is a class manager.

[Vesper 31,084]

Potential blow for Frank Lampard as key staff member in talks with Turkish club

https://www.caughtoffside.com/2020/01/20/potential-blow-for-frank-lampard-as-key-staff-member-in-talks-with-turkish-club/

It’s so easy to think of the manager as being the main person at every club and presume they are the sole reason for success and failure, but they tend to just be the figurehead for a huge coaching staff.

Only Frank Lampard will know how important his assistants are to him, but he’s an inexperienced manager who just made a big step up, so you have to think that he’s heavily relied on some experienced heads around him at times.

snip

 

[Tomo 21,751]

Just now, Atomiswave said:

No thats a very simplistic way to look at it. Both them you mentioned was proven but got old and stubborn. Poch for instance aint proven either as many would say but most would say he is a class manager.

Point is we should be looking at what we see on the pitch to access where things are heading, not what was done in previous clubs in previous league's. 

Forget Klopp for a minute look at Rodgers as an example early on at Liverpool, he had no track record in terms of challenging at the top and results wise gave them their worst start for generations but they were all universally behind him, why? Because when it did come off (and even on some occasions it didn't) they looked very good and it gave them optimism and the next season they were a slip away from the title. 

[Jase 43,479]

Death.

Taxes.

Same people moaning about the same thing over and over and over again. 

[Special Juan 28,758]

Things are nowhere near as bad as people are making out, this window and the summer and secure 4th hopefully and things will be fine.

This season was always going to be bumpy, but we are 4th now and better last half of the season and we secure it.

KTBFFH

[Vesper 31,084]

4 minutes ago, Mana said:

We can only hope. Just hands on heads moment here. It wasn't just a risk, it was a gigantic risk. Hiring a rookie coach, coaching rookie players (and mates he used to play with).

Lampard did well to maintain their league position, but the reason why the "FAILURE" is stamped on Lampard's Derby campaign is because he jumped ship. A Derby fan would want Lampard to finish what he's suppose to do, put Derby back on the map in the PL. I wanted to see if Lampard can do that before hiring him. We obviously never know now, and we took a massive gamble on a coach who has done only one season.

One season isn't enough to determine if the coach is good enough.

It would have been much clearer if Lampard did a second season with Derby. I'm not that worried about the clinical part though, that's down to the players more than Lampard.

If he gives us top 4, we will go again with Lampard but, I seriously hope he improves his coaching. We cannot have another season like this, because next season we may not be THIS lucky. Our form since the last international break is near relegation form and yet we are still 4th. That shows how awful the PL has been, and again - how bloody lucky we are.

Ole walked in to the United job because of the same reason as Lampard. Club legend status with some coaching experience. He is still in the job because he has been beating top sides like City, us, Spuds.

*sigh* Yeah...

Derby were never going to go up, nor should they

little cheap shit club

live off our loanees to big degree

waste of an EPL slot if they had pulled it out

they never would have spent the funds to stay up

[Atomiswave 6,120]

3 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Point is we should be looking at what we see on the pitch to access where things are heading, not what was done in previous clubs in previous league's. 

Forget Klopp for a minute look at Rodgers as an example early on at Liverpool, he had no track record in terms of challenging at the top and results wise gave them their worst start for generations but they were all universally behind him, why? Because when it did come off (and even on some occasions it didn't) they looked very good and it gave them optimism and the next season they were a slip away from the title. 

And he got sacked yes? Or did he resign I cant remember. Anyway we all have decent points, one can only hope it pays off down the line.