🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 Frank Lampard

[Nicco 927]

12 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Are you waiting for Reece's first blip to tell us all Dujon Sterlings better?

So you can't respond to the question, not surprised people don't even know what to say about Mount except he is a "goal threat", and linking midfield to attack gimmick.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 minute ago, Nicco said:

So you can't respond to the question, not surprised people don't even know what to say about Mount except he is a "goal threat", and linking midfield to attack gimmick

I actually have in my post just now.

3 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Just to add further context these were Mount's stats upto and including the Liverpool game. There's no denying he's been average to poor recently, but you think a start like this alone would buy anyone new to the league some time, let alone a 20 year old homegrown kid.

And we have the cheek to moan at Roman for supposedly being impatient, some of our fanbase make him look as patient as the guy who decided to stick by SAF.

 

[Nicco 927]

5 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Just to add further context these were Mount's stats upto and including the Liverpool game. There's no denying he's been average to poor recently, but you think a start like this alone would buy anyone new to the league some time, let alone a 20 year old homegrown kid.

And we have the cheek to moan at Roman for supposedly being impatient, some of our fanbase make him look as patient as the guy who decided to stick by SAF.

Those stats are from the first 5-7 matches when Jorgingo and Kovacic were doing everything in the midfield, and everything was clicking, what has he done since then? 

[Tomo 21,751]

Just now, Nicco said:

Those stats are from the first 5-7 matches when Jorgingo and Kovacic were doing everything in the midfield, and everything was clicking, what has he done since then? 

Everything was clicking? Did you see our results in August? 

Point is he came in and was for two months one of our better players, surely that alone earns him a bit of patience through his first serious sticky spell in his entire career? That's the exact thing we'd be saying about a player who was new to the league from abroad for big money, so why can't that apply to a 20 year old HG lad?

[Nicco 927]

13 minutes ago, Tomo said:

Everything was clicking? Did you see our results in August? 

Point is he came in and was for two months one of our better players, surely that alone earns him a bit of patience through his first serious sticky spell in his entire career? That's the exact thing we'd be saying about a player who was new to the league from abroad for big money, so why can't that apply to a 20 year old HG lad?

He plays full matches so either he shows something for it or he gets rightfully criticized. Pulisic was thrown on the bench when he was just finding his feet so what exactly warrants this guy starting and playing full matches since lately it looks like were playing in 10 men right now with him. Lampard is definitely obsessed with playing him, no explication on why he should start and not try Barkley he can't possibly be worse. 

Whats your point we should have patience with him and continue playing him until he suddenly gets half good again? Lampard is definitively biased with this guy and I don't understand why, he dropped Tomori for no reason but keeps playing Mount.

[Tomo 21,751]

9 minutes ago, Nicco said:

He plays full matches so either he shows something for it or he gets rightfully criticized. Pulisic was thrown on the bench when he was just finding his feet so what exactly warrants this guy starting and playing full matches since lately it looks like were playing in 10 men right now with him. Lampard is definitely obsessed with playing him, no explication on why he should start and not try Barkley he can't possibly be worse. 

Whats your point we should have patience with him and continue playing him until he suddenly gets half good again? Lampard is definitively biased with this guy and I don't understand why, he dropped Tomori for no reason but keeps playing Mount.

I've already said he shouldn't be immune to criticism or even took out the side, it's writing him off totally I've taken exception too (that's what I mean by patience). Similar was being said about Pulisic in September and Tammy after Istanbul.

And Mount has been dropped in 3 of our last 7 games, we're not exactly talking a Jose/Ivanovic situation.

[Nicco 927]

6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I've already said he shouldn't be immune to criticism or even took out the side, it's writing him off totally I've taken exception too (that's what I mean by patience). Similar was being said about Pulisic in September and Tammy after Istanbul.

And Mount has been dropped in 3 of our last 7 games, we're not exactly talking a Jose/Ivanovic situation.

I'm no expert obviously but I don't see anything in this guy unlike James, Tomori and maybe CHO that makes me believe he will be anything else than another squad number, hope I'm wrong though. That said I still hope Lampard drops him on the bench next few matches and starts the normal Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante midfield since that's easily our best.

[Superblue 6,372]

1 hour ago, Nicco said:

I'm no expert obviously but I don't see anything in this guy unlike James, Tomori and maybe CHO that makes me believe he will be anything else than another squad number, hope I'm wrong though. That said I still hope Lampard drops him on the bench next few matches and starts the normal Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante midfield since that's easily our best.

Alongside Rudiger, I would completely agree that they are our best players in the squad and all at a prime age in their careers.

But I don't think the three as a combination is actually our best midfield and this is where things are problematic at the moment.

In my opinion all three are better suited to playing in a midfield two. Playing the three together just doesn't seem to click properly.

Last season they were probably Sarri's chosen midfield three and it was a massive struggle because none of them offer huge attacking ability and/or instinct. Last season any attacking play and impetus we had was nearly exclusively courtesy of Hazard and without that luxury this season Lampard has had to try and change our approach and be more attack minded to plug that gap. I feel reverting to a midfield three of Jorginho, Kovacic and Kante takes far too much away from us offensively, especially in some of the recent games where we should be winning anyway.

I think this is where Mount's importance comes into play as he is the one that can link the midfield and attack together. Barkley would be the other option but he's been injured for a fairly substantial period and wasn't on the bench Saturday (still suffering) so options have been limited. The other option would be to bring Willian or Pulisic into a central role and play CHO or Pedro but both have looked pretty abysmal in recent times.

A fully fit RLC this season would have flourished in this role I believe. It's tailor made for him to have a bit of a free reign to drop deep, push forward, etc. It would have helped Mount too because at the moment he probably is suffering a little and needs a rest but other's aren't performing either.

But I think the idea he's overrated is way off the mark. He might not be the classiest of players but he is very effective at what he does and he's the sort of player that manager's love to have at their disposal because he's extremely hard working and intelligent (his pressing, the spaces he picks up, etc). It's not a coincidence that our loss of form has coincided with Mount's, much in the same way that Derby last season went through a difficult period when Mount got injured.

[communicate 2,703]

5 hours ago, Nicco said:

He plays full matches so either he shows something for it or he gets rightfully criticized. Pulisic was thrown on the bench when he was just finding his feet so what exactly warrants this guy starting and playing full matches since lately it looks like were playing in 10 men right now with him. Lampard is definitely obsessed with playing him, no explication on why he should start and not try Barkley he can't possibly be worse. 

Whats your point we should have patience with him and continue playing him until he suddenly gets half good again? Lampard is definitively biased with this guy and I don't understand why, he dropped Tomori for no reason but keeps playing Mount.

So Mount should not start game. Who should start over him?

You can't play kova and Kante every game. 

[NikkiCFC 8,516]

7 hours ago, Tomo said:

Are you waiting for Reece's first blip to tell us all Dujon Sterlings better?

Incomparable. Gallagher is having even better season than Mason with Derby and Sterling cannot make it to the Wigan's starting lineup while Reece was theirs POTY. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Gallagher is having even better season than Mason with Derby

What is this based on? Trend of the month? Stats? Or have you been watching Gallagher closely? 

[Jase 43,479]

This place is seriously getting more ridiculous of late. Results go downhill, players go out of form and then people - some who even rarely show up - suddenly appear to call them useless, overrated, shit, Player X is better than Player Y or whatever else along those lines. What a fucking joke! Almost make me want to just ban them all! 

[NikkiCFC 8,516]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

What is this based on? Trend of the month? Stats? Or have you been watching Gallagher closely? 

Based on everything you mentioned. 

[Jase 43,479]

Well, well, well...

[Johnnyeye 7,581]

21 minutes ago, Jason said:

Well, well, well...

overkill

[OneMoSalah 9,104]

3 hours ago, Jason said:

What is this based on? Trend of the month? Stats? Or have you been watching Gallagher closely? 

When Mount was at Vitesse the same things were said by many in here. Its just a constant rotation of young player X or Y being better than a current squad member. Mount had 2 seasons on loan before making the break here, largely due to a coach he had worked with coming in and a transfer ban as well as his potential obviously. If Gallagher can do something similar at a team that gets promoted/nearly does then bring him back definitely but until then just let the guy develop at his own rate.

[milka 3,407]

What a team , what a players , what a spirit we had ... miss so much these days ...  

 

[Vesper 31,105]

Chelsea: Frank Lampard’s best path forward may require a step back

https://theprideoflondon.com/2019/12/18/chelsea-frank-lampards-best-path-forward-may-require-step-back/

Chelsea has had a rough few weeks since returning from break. To stop the rot, Frank Lampard may need to retreat to an old set up.

In preseason, Frank Lampard played around with a few different formations with the same basic tenants. High, aggressive pressing led to fast vertical attacks. If the ball was lost while trying to attack, the numbers were already there to press. If the press succeeded, it was easier to move the ball forward in the chaos.

The issue was when the press failed. A year and a half of management is not much to make a sweeping judgement about Frank Lampard’s style, but the defensive side of things is where he lags behind. The press does most of the work and often does well, but if it is beaten, a high line is left to rely on individuals doing something great rather than a set up shielding the goal.

Lampard already had this issue before, but earlier in the season he had more goal scorers to at least push Chelsea along. Since they have all dried up bar Tammy Abraham, the results have dipped. Lampard solved the issue last time by taking a step back briefly. That worked in the short term to allow the winning streak in the long term. Something similar is needed again.

Following the return from the first international break this season, two changes were made. The first was the switch to a 3-4-3. That was largely injury enforced but also served to better shield Chelsea from the crosses that were tearing the Blues apart. The second was a deeper defensive line but that only tells part of the story.

snip

[OneMoSalah 9,104]

12 hours ago, Vesper said:

Chelsea: Frank Lampard’s best path forward may require a step back

https://theprideoflondon.com/2019/12/18/chelsea-frank-lampards-best-path-forward-may-require-step-back/

Chelsea has had a rough few weeks since returning from break. To stop the rot, Frank Lampard may need to retreat to an old set up.

In preseason, Frank Lampard played around with a few different formations with the same basic tenants. High, aggressive pressing led to fast vertical attacks. If the ball was lost while trying to attack, the numbers were already there to press. If the press succeeded, it was easier to move the ball forward in the chaos.

The issue was when the press failed. A year and a half of management is not much to make a sweeping judgement about Frank Lampard’s style, but the defensive side of things is where he lags behind. The press does most of the work and often does well, but if it is beaten, a high line is left to rely on individuals doing something great rather than a set up shielding the goal.

Lampard already had this issue before, but earlier in the season he had more goal scorers to at least push Chelsea along. Since they have all dried up bar Tammy Abraham, the results have dipped. Lampard solved the issue last time by taking a step back briefly. That worked in the short term to allow the winning streak in the long term. Something similar is needed again.

Following the return from the first international break this season, two changes were made. The first was the switch to a 3-4-3. That was largely injury enforced but also served to better shield Chelsea from the crosses that were tearing the Blues apart. The second was a deeper defensive line but that only tells part of the story.

snip

Honestly if he makes huge adjustments, whats the point in the work hes done in the last few months since coming in?

If he, like Sarri and Conte, has a method he believes in he may as well continue implementing it.  Once coaches go totally against their philosophy or whatever you want to call it, whats the point? All that other work basically goes out the window.

We will make mistakes continuing in this way but at least we will implement what he wants. Pep and Klopp had same issues when they arrived in England but persisted with it and improved their squad. We lack a few top quality players in some positions, the set up is vunerable on transitions and at set plays but that can be sorted with minor tweaks, more coaching and a few additions as opposed to going back to basics playing 10 men behind the ball.

As much as Sarri wasnt everyones cup of tea I had respect for him because he came to do things his way and barely wavered from his philosophy. We played some nice sequences coming out from the back under pressure but struggled in the final third due to shortcomings in quality, if Frank goes and makes huge changes to his philosophy then we will just go back to old ways imo and the ground work Sarri had also instilled is rendered useless too. We have got the technical players to play football where we play out, control the midfield and look to dictate the game with quick football in the final third. A great deal of squad is made for it, especially in midfield and offensive positions. Defence we maybe lack a CB and LB who are of top quality. As well as maybe lacking another winger, 10 and CF who can push the other players/relieve the weight on their shoulders (ie. Tammy and Pulisic who have been leading the way for us in attack imo).

As I have said many times the shape and set plays are an issue but I believe its more coaching and a lack of players than Franks general idea of how we should play and set up. Yes we need to have tactical flexibility but we do have it already,  we can play 343, 433 or 4231 as weve seen but these problems are always evident. That means for me its more the coaching side of that and personnel in some areas as opposed to the actual formation or way he wants us to play.

[Vesper 31,105]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Honestly if he makes huge adjustments, whats the point in the work hes done in the last few months since coming in?

If he, like Sarri and Conte, has a method he believes in he may as well continue implementing it.  Once coaches go totally against their philosophy or whatever you want to call it, whats the point? All that other work basically goes out the window.

We will make mistakes continuing in this way but at least we will implement what he wants. Pep and Klopp had same issues when they arrived in England but persisted with it and improved their squad. We lack a few top quality players in some positions, the set up is vunerable on transitions and at set plays but that can be sorted with minor tweaks, more coaching and a few additions as opposed to going back to basics playing 10 men behind the ball.

As much as Sarri wasnt everyones cup of tea I had respect for him because he came to do things his way and barely wavered from his philosophy. We played some nice sequences coming out from the back under pressure but struggled in the final third due to shortcomings in quality, if Frank goes and makes huge changes to his philosophy then we will just go back to old ways imo and the ground work Sarri had also instilled is rendered useless too. We have got the technical players to play football where we play out, control the midfield and look to dictate the game with quick football in the final third. A great deal of squad is made for it, especially in midfield and offensive positions. Defence we maybe lack a CB and LB who are of top quality. As well as maybe lacking another winger, 10 and CF who can push the other players/relieve the weight on their shoulders (ie. Tammy and Pulisic who have been leading the way for us in attack imo).

As I have said many times the shape and set plays are an issue but I believe its more coaching and a lack of players than Franks general idea of how we should play and set up. Yes we need to have tactical flexibility but we do have it already,  we can play 343, 433 or 4231 as weve seen but these problems are always evident. That means for me its more the coaching side of that and personnel in some areas as opposed to the actual formation or way he wants us to play.

i do not think we have the offensive players atm other than Tammy and Pulisic and maybe Mount (who is pants lately) for this offensive football. Willian, Pedro, Barkley, Bats, Giroud, and unfortunately an atm still-damaged CHO are simply not capable as of right now. RLC remains out . Hopefully we bring in somebody in January.