Non-Chelsea Transfer Pub

[Essien19 1,415]

I actualy think they will go for someone like Pogba and sell Rakitic/Turan to finance the deal.

Maybe they offload Turan, but in my view not Rakitic.

I hope we're not in for Turan, not worth the hustle, imo.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

27 minutes ago, Essien19 said:

Maybe they offload Turan, but in my view not Rakitic.

I hope we're not in for Turan, not worth the hustle, imo.

I wouldnt rate Turan based on his barca days because he plays wrong position and not regulary, but yeah his age and possible lack of fitness, not to mention price; we shouldnt get near unless he would be ~15m. 

Biglia is also one of underrated CMs out there, but for 30 y.o. Lazio price of 30m is plain stupid.

[robsblubot 3,498]

On 4/21/2016 at 7:57 AM, Rmpr said:

Well, like I said before, I agree with your evaluations. I just dont think its nearly as easy to offloads those players as you think.

JT, Pato and Falcao are execptions as their contracts end. However, all other players are hard to get rid off. In order to sell players of the caliber of Oscar, Fabregas, Pedro and Cahill; we would need to find a club who can afford their wages and transfer fee and, at the same time, is atractive enough for them to accept the move. They all have families, etc. Its not simple!

Replacing players is complicated too. There are numerous expenses to count for: juridical, medical, traveling and housing for the first few months, agent fees, etc. Its easier to just stay with the current players imo. They already have their routine in place and so on. Not to count the fact those individuals are not too bad for bench options. I mean, which bench player in England is better than Cahill or Mikel? Apart from City, which bench midfielder is better than Oscar or Pedro? 

Also, Chelsea has a hard enough task by signing at least top 3-4 players. Imagine having to do that plus filling in bench options. It will only  unnecessary deviate the board from its true objective...

EDIT: In resume, what I am trying to say is that I believe CFC should try to first do the basic. Lets sign the key pieces we need and then use the new season to reevaluate our current squad. Who knows, maybe some of them regain form with Conte, but if they dont, they will not be first options anyways.

You make great points there, especially the link with wages, which is something people forget often.

Ironically, that's one of the couple things you've missed: you propose a false dilemma in that we need to find a bench player to replace our bench players. Even if it were true, it doesn't really matter because the likes of PSG and other top sides have just so many options that it becomes unfair, as it has been. BTW, liverpool has Cam and Lucas, both far better players than Mikel (I'd even take Allen to be honest), but again I digress.

Point being that at around 75k and 95K weekly, I am sure Wanyama or any other midfield/defender from mid or smaller sides in the PL would suffer through sitting on our bench. Also, this idea of having bench warmers who accept their role as such is something very unique with us, and not common in other top sides: competition is important! Often I feel our players could use more competition - they look way too comfortable. And why do you say England? Are we not planning on competing in Europe anymore? There are good players all over the place and we have the expensive scouts to find them.

Accepting the status quo is accepting defeat. Even if I admit that Oscar may not cut it at chelsea, which disappoints me, I cannot understand why people still want players who have proven over and over again, over many years, that they are not good enough to make us competitive against the top sides. Should we take a loss with them? we've done it before.

[chelseafan26 293]

14 hours ago, Rmpr said:

Well, like I said before, I agree with your evaluations. I just dont think its nearly as easy to offloads those players as you think.

JT, Pato and Falcao are execptions as their contracts end. However, all other players are hard to get rid off. In order to sell players of the caliber of Oscar, Fabregas, Pedro and Cahill; we would need to find a club who can afford their wages and transfer fee and, at the same time, is atractive enough for them to accept the move. They all have families, etc. Its not simple!

Replacing players is complicated too. There are numerous expenses to count for: juridical, medical, traveling and housing for the first few months, agent fees, etc. Its easier to just stay with the current players imo. They already have their routine in place and so on. Not to count the fact those individuals are not too bad for bench options. I mean, which bench player in England is better than Cahill or Mikel? Apart from City, which bench midfielder is better than Oscar or Pedro? 

Also, Chelsea has a hard enough task by signing at least top 3-4 players. Imagine having to do that plus filling in bench options. It will only  unnecessary deviate the board from its true objective...

EDIT: In resume, what I am trying to say is that I believe CFC should try to first do the basic. Lets sign the key pieces we need and then use the new season to reevaluate our current squad. Who knows, maybe some of them regain form with Conte, but if they dont, they will not be first options anyways.

Good points mate. But I think the point that you make regarding the wages and fee would be applicable to the likes of Mikel and maybe even Cahill, I dont think that would be a problem at all with Oscar. Moreover, we cant guarantee CL/EL football to our players, the likes of united/juve/roma/bvb can. Pedro was chased after United, Oscar is still being linked with juve, Cahill is a Homegrown player. I can see the likes of everton going for him (with Jagielka getting closer to retirement). With Mikel, it would obviously be difficult. Accepted. 

Again, while I accept the first part of your argument, I just cant accept the 2nd. GC, mikel, Pedro and Oscar are average players and not worthy of Bench options. They add nothing to the team. If we had andreas in place of christensen, musonda in place of pedro, RLC starting every minute in place of Oscar would it affect us one bit? I honestly dont think so. I think the price tags have made it look differently. We are a club which boasts of the best Youth academy or rather the most Successful Youth Academy in the world. Its time they are a part of this.

Thats the point mate. We dont need to buy players to replace the bench options. We already have them. They are simply out on loan playing for vitesse, betis, monchengladbach. Thats it. Again, I do get the point of not going over baord with the overhaul, but by god, if any team ever needed a overhaul, its us.

[11Drogba 2,000]

Zidane is not using Kovacic much. We need two great dribblers in the team. That's what the most successful teams are doing. A fit Hazard and Kovacic would create a lot of problems for defenders.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

17 hours ago, Rmpr said:

Well, like I said before, I agree with your evaluations. I just dont think its nearly as easy to offloads those players as you think.

JT, Pato and Falcao are execptions as their contracts end. However, all other players are hard to get rid off. In order to sell players of the caliber of Oscar, Fabregas, Pedro and Cahill; we would need to find a club who can afford their wages and transfer fee and, at the same time, is atractive enough for them to accept the move. They all have families, etc. Its not simple!

Replacing players is complicated too. There are numerous expenses to count for: juridical, medical, traveling and housing for the first few months, agent fees, etc. Its easier to just stay with the current players imo. They already have their routine in place and so on. Not to count the fact those individuals are not too bad for bench options. I mean, which bench player in England is better than Cahill or Mikel? Apart from City, which bench midfielder is better than Oscar or Pedro? 

Also, Chelsea has a hard enough task by signing at least top 3-4 players. Imagine having to do that plus filling in bench options. It will only  unnecessary deviate the board from its true objective...

EDIT: In resume, what I am trying to say is that I believe CFC should try to first do the basic. Lets sign the key pieces we need and then use the new season to reevaluate our current squad. Who knows, maybe some of them regain form with Conte, but if they dont, they will not be first options anyways.

I agree few team have better bench than Mikel, Oscar, Pedro etc. But our players despite their quality, have little impact and influence and that is main reason why you put them in game at some point. 

Maybe its man managment at chelsea or players are simply not up to it. 

I mean we had Kalou who was arguably far worse player than Pedro, but he still scored several goals that were important. In fact I would have another Kalou over Pedro, Oscar, Pato, Falcao combined.

[Blue Colored Sky 1,807]

15 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

What do you guys think of Rakitic?

IMO he is not having the best season with Barca and despite brilliant last one, he never realy suited them and replicated his sevilla form.

Im almost certain he will be available in summer and for relatively small amount if barca goes for another CM. 

Problem is he isnt fast or dynamic midfielder (and I dislike such players) but he could be perfect to set up counter attacks. He has that mentality of a winner and usualy performs well despite those physical flaws. He is still miles more useful in bigger games than Cesc. 

I usualy dont want any player from barca, except for those that dont suit them from the begining like Yaya, Alexis, Rakitic, Ibra etc...because they usualy play alot better in teams that play opposite stlye than barca. 

If there will be no better alternatives, I think Rakitic could be one to at least observe before sticking to Cesc for another season.

Barca has too much problems in keeping those three forwards in the team and pay their wages. They have the biggest payroll and I don't think they're in position to sign Pogba. From what is rumoured, they would have to sell one of Messi/Neymar/Suarez.

Oh, and they revealed yesterday that they're starting rebuilding the Camp Nou from 2017 for 600m€ and have to take credit for it. How they can break the transfer record and add Pogba's wages to already bad situation, I don't think they can.

[LAM09 6,742]

Barca has too much problems in keeping those three forwards in the team and pay their wages. They have the biggest payroll and I don't think they're in position to sign Pogba. From what is rumoured, they would have to sell one of Messi/Neymar/Suarez.

Oh, and they revealed yesterday that they're starting rebuilding the Camp Nou from 2017 for 600m€ and have to take credit for it. How they can break the transfer record and add Pogba's wages to already bad situation, I don't think they can.

I can see Neymar leaving in the near future. He wants to be the main star and that ain't happen when Messi is around

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

1 hour ago, LAM09 said:

I can see Neymar leaving in the near future. He wants to be the main star and that ain't happen when Messi is around

It may be so and I certainly can't claim to know that it is not, but this sounds pretty far fetched to me. Of course, under the guidance of his agent, Neymar might be quite happy to keep Barca's contract negotiators on their toes with allusions to dissatisfaction, but actually wanting to leave for such a reason? I can't see it. At all.

[LAM09 6,742]

It may be so and I certainly can't claim to know that it is not, but this sounds pretty far fetched to me. Of course, under the guidance of his agent, Neymar might be quite happy to keep Barca's contract negotiators on their toes with allusions to dissatisfaction, but actually wanting to leave for such a reason? I can't see it. At all.

Just seems probable to me. He was supposedly the best paid at Barca until a year ago and that might be an added motive. I just can't see Barca keeping that front three for much longer

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

9 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

Just seems probable to me. He was supposedly the best paid at Barca until a year ago and that might be an added motive. I just can't see Barca keeping that front three for much longer

A motive to agitate for a new contract maybe, a motive even for using the threat of moving on as part of the negotiations, but for actually wanting to move? Players love playing for Barca. They love the adulation, they love the Catalan's passion for their team, they revel in the team's dominance, and they enjoy the style of football. If, like Cesc, a player knows that he isn't good enough to hold a place in the side then maybe, but I'd say that a nailed on starter is highly unlikely to want to leave.

Now, Barcelona finding themselves needing to sell is another thing but I don't actually believe that either. There are plenty of other wage bill reductions they'd take before they part with any of their front three.

[LAM09 6,742]

A motive to agitate for a new contract maybe, a motive even for using the threat of moving on as part of the negotiations, but for actually wanting to move? Players love playing for Barca. They love the adulation, they love the Catalan's passion for their team, they revel in the team's dominance, and they enjoy the style of football. If, like Cesc, a player knows that he isn't good enough to hold a place in the side then maybe, but I'd say that a nailed on starter is highly unlike to want to leave.

Now, Barcelona finding themselves needing to sell is another thing but I don't actually believe that either. There are plenty of other wage bill reductions they'd take before they part with any of their front three.

They wouldn't push any of the three out, but their team needs strengthening all over IMO. Some cuts are going to have to be made to do that. The La Liga monopoly can only take them so far.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,890]

9 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

They wouldn't push any of the three out, but their team needs strengthening all over IMO. Some cuts are going to have to be made to do that. The La Liga monopoly can only take them so far.

Do you know when the new La Liga distribution policy comes into effect? That's going to reduce their income somewhat. No matter how big their debts however, their income is simply incredible so I'm guessing that no lender will feel the need to call in their loans. That said, I do not know the first thing about Barca's financial situation so that guess might be complete nonsense.

[LAM09 6,742]

Do you know when the new La Liga distribution policy comes into effect? That's going to reduce their income somewhat. No matter how big their debts however, their income is simply incredible so I'm guessing that no lender will feel the need to call in their loans. That said, I do not know the first thing about Barca's financial situation so that guess might be complete nonsense.

Next season IIRC. Their income won't change much and could possibly exceed what they currently earn. It will just create parity and hopefully prevent smaller teams from going bankrupt.

I'm just aware of the things that are reported. At the end of the day, the expansion will inevitably affected them one way or another.

[Yakk 2]

There are still many 'hidden' gems who we can bring over for small fees. We should look at those instead of always looking at the usual suspects.

We could for example bring in Ricardo Rodriguez and Kalilou Koulibaly, and have the best defence in the EPL.

Add one or two worldclass attacking players to this like Griezmann and Draxler who are very versatile, and we will compete for the title again next season I'm pretty sure.

We shouldn't make the mistake again to bring in already proven players who weren't outstanding at their current clubs. Like Cavani, Pedro, Rakitic, Benzema.

Adding those players won't make us compete with the likes of Real, Barca and Bayern.

 

[the wes 7,212]

[LAM09 6,742]

There are still many 'hidden' gems who we can bring over for small fees. We should look at those instead of always looking at the usual suspects.

We could for example bring in Ricardo Rodriguez and Kalilou Koulibaly, and have the best defence in the EPL.

Add one or two worldclass attacking players to this like Griezmann and Draxler who are very versatile, and we will compete for the title again next season I'm pretty sure.

We shouldn't make the mistake again to bring in already proven players who weren't outstanding at their current clubs. Like Cavani, Pedro, Rakitic, Benzema.

Adding those players won't make us compete with the likes of Real, Barca and Bayern.

 

All about the scouting team being thorough. Names won't necessarily win you things and make a difference.

[!Hazard! 3,394]

Talking about hidden gems, I think the next proper Dutch striker is currently playing in AZ and his name is Vincent Janssen.

Top scorer in Eredivisie with 25 goals and only 21 years old . He seems pretty complete with ball control, strength and finishing ability. He caused problems for Jagielka and Stones in NL - ENG match earlier this year. His dribbling is on the level of Diego Costa (hopefully it will get better) but his vision and passing range are way better. Could be a bit of a gamble as a 2nd striker for next season but I think he has a lot of potential. 

 

Edit. Looking at Bayern's line-up today, I think Muller and Benatia might be available in the summer. Whether we could get them is a whole another story, of course. Also, who knows if they will be favoured by Ancelotti next year but maybe Muller wants to look for new challenges. Same for Benatia. At the moment, they are clearly seem to be surplus for Guardiola.