Non-Chelsea Transfer Pub

[Vesper 30,172]

40 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

United have enough attackers, who is getting benched? Cant see him going there.

especially if they buy Sancho

[Vesper 30,172]

3 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

EPL team of the year player and EPL first teamer are 2 very different things which I think you should say clearly. 

I mean if I say EPL first teamer, I am sure 99 out of 100 people will understand it to be plays in the first team for a PL club.

 

this is disingenuous as I clearly said PFA all EPL first team (about Cahill)

simply being a starter is no big deal and I never commented about anyone simply being a starter, you tried to interject that

this is what I said

it is clear what I said

I was NOT (obviously) saying Ake was never going to be a starter, he is a starter his entire time at  Bournemouth

to try and claim that I did not know that is LAUGHABLE

I was saying he will never be a first team all EPLer (like Cahill was 3 times)

 

 

 

 

nice try to move the goalposts, but still a fail

 

if we rated Ake as much as you do, why did we sell him, and then why, with multiple chances to do so, have we not bought him back (or at least made attempts at it)?

 

 

[killer1257 3,282]

 

 

 

 

if we rated Ake as much as you do, why did we sell him, and then why, with multiple chances to do so, have we not bought him back (or at least made attempts at it)?

 

 

 

Does it matter if Chelsea rates someone or not? We did not rate KDB, who I thought back then will become the best midfielder in the world sooner or later and now he has become that. Chelsea did not rate him and sold him. Then, Chelsea should have signed him again, but chose not to and he went to City. Chelsea just had to bid for him. Manchester United made a mistake with Pogba and they accepted it and bought him back. They rated him highly enough to buy him back for 100 mio. KDB is way better than Pogba and he cost less than him.

 

Salah similar case. Played 500 PL minutes and was sent on loan and sold for good later on. Chelsea did not rate him and now look what he has become. Klopp saw his potential and boom. Rest is history.

 

I am not saying Ake is Ricardo Carvahlo level or something, but Chelsea fucked up so many things that I do not rate their eye of talent judgment. Whoever did not see KDBs talent is an idiot.

 

But Chelsea did rate Willian highly and all the coaches loved him from the beginning. Marina blocked his Barcelona move lol. That is how much Chelsea rates him. 60 million pounds. If it was me, I would have accepted that big asap.

 

And you would have probably blocked Ricardo Carvalhos move to Chelsea because he is the same height as Ake. Carvalho was one of the best CBs I have seen my whole life. He had insane football IQ

 

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

 

 

 

[Vesper 30,172]

6 hours ago, Strike said:

What are the options in the man-mountain CB market? 

some are impossible, and some are too young

these the best 1.92m and up

left footedleft footedtall, but not rock-likeleft footedleft footedambipedal left footedleft footed

[Special Juan 28,141]

N'Dombele to Inter could happen.

[Vesper 30,172]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

 

 

 

 

 

Does it matter if Chelsea rates someone or not? We did not rate KDB, who I thought back then will become the best midfielder in the world sooner or later and now he has become that. Chelsea did not rate him and sold him. Then, Chelsea should have signed him again, but chose not to and he went to City. Chelsea just had to bid for him. Manchester United made a mistake with Pogba and they accepted it and bought him back. They rated him highly enough to buy him back for 100 mio. KDB is way better than Pogba and he cost less than him.

 

Salah similar case. Played 500 PL minutes and was sent on loan and sold for good later on. Chelsea did not rate him and now look what he has become. Klopp saw his potential and boom. Rest is history.

 

I am not saying Ake is Ricardo Carvahlo level or something, but Chelsea fucked up so many things that I do not rate their eye of talent judgment. Whoever did not see KDBs talent is an idiot.

 

But Chelsea did rate Willian highly and all the coaches loved him from the beginning. Marina blocked his Barcelona move lol. That is how much Chelsea rates him. 60 million pounds. If it was me, I would have accepted that big asap.

 

And you would have probably blocked Ricardo Carvalhos move to Chelsea because he is the same height as Ake. Carvalho was one of the best CBs I have seen my whole life. He had insane football IQ

 

Gesendet von meinem VOG-L29 mit Tapatalk

 

 

 

if, huge IF, we had a buyback option on De Bruyne we surely would have used it

Ake is not remotely in Carvalho's class, that is just silly, and Carvalho is 3 to 5 cm taller than Ake anyway

so so much fanboying over Ake here

IF we rate him, we will or would have bought him back

I have watched the hell out of Ake for years and just do not see this wonderback some on here see

Pep's buying him has some all hot n sweaty

Pep's record of defensive buys at Shitty is certainly not the gold standard

John Stones £50m

Benjamin Mendy  £52m

and (although he still may come good) João Cancelo (£58.5m)

plus Shitty (2 years before Pep came) spent  £41m on dregs Eliaquim Mangala and 1 year before Pep came they spent £40m on Nicolás Otamendi (one of the most overrated CB's in the last 20 years of the EPL)

5 backs, almost a quarter of a billion quid, and unless Cancelo comes good, 5 backs I would not want on our roster, especially with prices they paid. Shitty won despite Otamendi, not because of him

He hit gold with Laporte, but that was hardly rocket science, Laporte was already near WC when he came, 6 feet 3, pacy, great passer, left footed, great tackler, superb start to his career at Bilbao, 5 year starter there since he was 18/19yo.

 

 

[Pizy 18,904]

34 minutes ago, Special Juan said:

N'Dombele to Inter could happen.

One by one José is going to weed out the creative flare players and replace them with robots basically.

I'm sure Spuds fans are delighted to see an exciting, highly technical player like Ndombele sold and replaced by that bang average Hojbjerg from Southampton. 

[Puliiszola 519]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

this is disingenuous as I clearly said PFA all EPL first team (about Cahill)

simply being a starter is no big deal and I never commented about anyone simply being a starter, you tried to interject that

this is what I said

it is clear what I said

I was NOT (obviously) saying Ake was never going to be a starter, he is a starter his entire time at  Bournemouth

to try and claim that I did not know that is LAUGHABLE

I was saying he will never be a first team all EPLer (like Cahill was 3 times)

 

 

 

 

nice try to move the goalposts, but still a fail

 

if we rated Ake as much as you do, why did we sell him, and then why, with multiple chances to do so, have we not bought him back (or at least made attempts at it)?

 

 

Do you have a problem reading and understanding?

"Ake will will never be on an EPL first team, I will just be shocked if he was "

your words, not mine and post has been linked.

 

And I am moving goal posts? Lol

You said, he is a player from a relegated team so we should not buy.(simpleton thinking to say the least)

I pointed out we bought GC.

You said GC was PFA team of year

I said all his nominations were post 2011 when he was bought by us. 

And you don't even answer it because you simply have no answer to your simplistic opinion.

Next "oh ake is short"

I give you the example of Puyol and cannavaro, and again you simply side step the issue. No comment, because well, pointless opinion.

Then the fact that United and citu were/are interested in him and city havr actually bought him. Not even a cut price deal but proper 40m£ transfer. Again, nothing from you. 

Just keep bringing up 'oh but he is not a PFA team player'. Rubbish

 

[Vesper 30,172]

54 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

Do you have a problem reading and understanding?

"Ake will will never be on an EPL first team, I will just be shocked if he was "

your words, not mine and post has been linked.

 

And I am moving goal posts? Lol

You said, he is a player from a relegated team so we should not buy.(simpleton thinking to say the least)

I pointed out we bought GC.

You said GC was PFA team of year

I said all his nominations were post 2011 when he was bought by us. 

And you don't even answer it because you simply have no answer to your simplistic opinion.

Next "oh ake is short"

I give you the example of Puyol and cannavaro, and again you simply side step the issue. No comment, because well, pointless opinion.

Then the fact that United and citu were/are interested in him and city havr actually bought him. Not even a cut price deal but proper 40m£ transfer. Again, nothing from you. 

Just keep bringing up 'oh but he is not a PFA team player'. Rubbish

 

 

it was clear what I meant

don't try and play games by trying to insinuate that I was saying he would never be a starter, that is ludicrous

pure bollocks m8

I was saying he will never be all epl first team

and so what that Cahill became all epl after we bought him

Ake will never be a first team all EPLer at centre back

he is simply not that good of a CB

book it

as for his height (which again, I am calling bullshit on his being listed at 1.80m as well, unless they are adding in his locks), I am not going to play ludicrous games and start comparing Ake to two of the greatest CB's  in the past 25 years in global football

also CB's from two different leagues as well, including La Lia, which is far shorter league than the EPl, and then the ultra tactical Serie A

their heights are also the exception to the rule in modern football

look at Ake's aerial duel %, it is poor

he is not good enough in the air for what we need

we need a commanding presence in the air and all the gas-lighting in the world will not change the fact he is not that

if we do sign him by matching Shitty's offer I am going on record that it is a large mistake

unless we are going to try and play him at DMF, which is where he started off

 

 

Chelsea cool interest in £40m Nathan Ake after scouting report raises concerns

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-nathan-ake-concerns-transfer-news-a4333856.html

Chelsea are reassessing their defensive transfer targets after cooling their interest in Bournemouth centre-back Nathan Ake.

The Blues have been heavily linked with a move to re-sign the 24-year-old after inserting a £40million buy-back clause in the deal which took him to the south coast in 2017.

They also have first refusal on Ake with head coach Frank Lampard in the market for a centre-back this month following the Court of Arbitration for Sport’s decision to reduce their Fifa transfer ban on appeal. Lampard was at Chelsea as a player when Ake came through the ranks following his arrival from Feyenoord as a teenager in 2011 and has had the Dutchman extensively scouted since the season started.

Standard Sport understands those reports have raised concerns about Ake’s suitability for the Blues with Lampard harbouring doubts over whether he is the right fit for the higher defensive line he prefers to play with.

Although Bournemouth beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge last month, they have lost nine of their last 11 Premier League matches and have slipped into the relegation zone. Ake started six of those matches including Sunday’s 3-0 home defeat to Watford. It remains possible Chelsea could yet pursue a deal for Ake given the simplicity of doing so in a typically fraught January market but the fact they are actively exploring other options is further evidence of their uncertainty over his ability.

Chelsea are keen to strengthen at the back, however, with other candidates under consideration including Albanian teenager Marash Kumbulla.

The 19-year-old, who plays for Hellas Verona in Italy, is attracting interest from several European clubs and is thought to be available for less than £20m, although a potential bidding war could drive that price up.

[Puliiszola 519]

48 minutes ago, Vesper said:

it was clear what I meant

don't try and play games by trying to insinuate that I was saying he would never be a starter, that is ludicrous

pure bollocks m8

I was saying he will never be all epl first team

and so what that Cahill became all epl after we bought him

Ake will never be a first team all EPLer at centre back

he is simply not that good of a CB

book it

as for his height (which again, I am calling bullshit on his being listed at 1.80m as well, unless they are adding in his locks), I am not going to play ludicrous games and start comparing Ake to two of the greatest CB's  in the past 25 years in global football

also CB's from two different leagues as well, including La Lia, which is far shorter league than the EPl, and then the ultra tactical Serie A

their heights are also the exception to the rule in modern football

look at Ake's aerial duel %, it is poor

he is not good enough in the air for what we need

we need a commanding presence in the air and all the gas-lighting in the world will not change the fact he is not that

if we do sign him by matching Shitty's offer I am going on record that it is a large mistake

unless we are going to try and play him at DMF, which is where he started off

 

 

Chelsea cool interest in £40m Nathan Ake after scouting report raises concerns

https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-nathan-ake-concerns-transfer-news-a4333856.html

Chelsea are reassessing their defensive transfer targets after cooling their interest in Bournemouth centre-back Nathan Ake.

The Blues have been heavily linked with a move to re-sign the 24-year-old after inserting a £40million buy-back clause in the deal which took him to the south coast in 2017.

They also have first refusal on Ake with head coach Frank Lampard in the market for a centre-back this month following the Court of Arbitration for Sport’s decision to reduce their Fifa transfer ban on appeal. Lampard was at Chelsea as a player when Ake came through the ranks following his arrival from Feyenoord as a teenager in 2011 and has had the Dutchman extensively scouted since the season started.

Standard Sport understands those reports have raised concerns about Ake’s suitability for the Blues with Lampard harbouring doubts over whether he is the right fit for the higher defensive line he prefers to play with.

Although Bournemouth beat Chelsea at Stamford Bridge last month, they have lost nine of their last 11 Premier League matches and have slipped into the relegation zone. Ake started six of those matches including Sunday’s 3-0 home defeat to Watford. It remains possible Chelsea could yet pursue a deal for Ake given the simplicity of doing so in a typically fraught January market but the fact they are actively exploring other options is further evidence of their uncertainty over his ability.

Chelsea are keen to strengthen at the back, however, with other candidates under consideration including Albanian teenager Marash Kumbulla.

The 19-year-old, who plays for Hellas Verona in Italy, is attracting interest from several European clubs and is thought to be available for less than £20m, although a potential bidding war could drive that price up.

Hahhahaha. I am sure you meant "exactly that". I should somehow magically understand what "you meant" instead of answering to what you actually wrote.

Just your regular drivel as usual. Stubborn as shit, despite being given proof again and again.

Well there is a reason vesper is typing on a Chelsea forum, while pep, Eddie howe, ole and a lot of clubs and managers think that he is a quality CB worth spending multi million dollars on. 

Also, I was not comparing ake to Puyol and cannavaro. I was simply debunking an argument as stupid as "he is short, hence we should not buy'. Nothing with how good he is defensively, his positional awareness, his actual jumping makes his height a moot point. You even have a problem with Google and various sources listing his height as 180cm, but somehow have no problem using the same sources to make whatever ridiculous point you are trying to make most times 

[Jase 43,479]

 

[Jase 43,479]

9 hours ago, Puliiszola said:

Well there is a reason vesper is typing on a Chelsea forum, while pep, Eddie howe, ole and a lot of clubs and managers think that he is a quality CB worth spending multi million dollars on. 

This kind of logic is not really good to say the least. It is like saying we should not criticize Jorginho and appreciate him - despite the flaws we have seen from him - because Guardiola wanted him. 

[Special Juan 28,141]

43 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

The Arsenal balloon deflated again.

[Puliiszola 519]

30 minutes ago, Jason said:

This kind of logic is not really good to say the least. It is like saying we should not criticize Jorginho and appreciate him - despite the flaws we have seen from him - because Guardiola wanted him. 

It will be if the person you are having a "discussion" with refuses to literally acknowledge any point and simply states "if we buy he will be a disaster". No real reasoning as to why? How? What makes him worse than any of our current crop, because defensively I feel he is definitely better. Footballing IQ is awesome, playing out of the back, not even a question. .

Hence the final bomb of maybe the people actually making such decisions do know what they are doing.

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

It will be if the person you are having a "discussion" with refuses to literally acknowledge any point and simply states "if we buy he will be a disaster". No real reasoning as to why? How? What makes him worse than any of our current crop, because defensively I feel he is definitely better. Footballing IQ is awesome, playing out of the back, not even a question. .

Hence the final bomb of maybe the people actually making such decisions do know what they are doing.

That is just what you feel or see about Ake but using the reasoning like 'he's great because Manager X, Y, Z wants him', like you did, is dumb because if that is the case, then shouldn't we keep and play Jorginho at all cost because Guardiola wanted him?

[Pizy 18,904]

CB market getting smaller and smaller. That's now 3 CB's we've been linked with (Ake, Ginter, Upamecano) off the market in recent days.

Are we going to go all in on the Declan Rice as a CB route? Not ideal. Feels like a move for Rice would go like several sagas of past windows where we chase a big target all summer, fail, and then settle for a lesser player at the last minute.

 

[Puliiszola 519]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

That is just what you feel or see about Ake but using the reasoning like 'he's great because Manager X, Y, Z wants him', like you did, is dumb because if that is the case, then shouldn't we keep and play Jorginho at all cost because Guardiola wanted him?

That is taking things out of context. There were 3/4 back and forth a with the same poster.

She said "he is from a relegation team"

I gave an example of Cahill.

Then came the height argument.

I gave an example of Puyol, cannavaro (and now to think of it, Carvalho was barely any taller).

But despite putting all these arguments, you can still stick to your opinions, but accept them. I said what I said, only after a post in which the poster clearly passed judgement on the player that 'he can't be a PFA player of the year member" and 'wont be a good buy'. No reasons, just judgements. Hence I felt it was totally valid to point out that there are better judges and better scouts out there.

[Jase 43,479]

Tonali expected to join Inter for 35 million very soon...

https://forzaitalianfootball.com/2020/07/brescia-starlet-close-to-joining-inter/

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Puliiszola said:

That is taking things out of context. There were 3/4 back and forth a with the same poster.

She said "he is from a relegation team"

I gave an example of Cahill.

Then came the height argument.

I gave an example of Puyol, cannavaro (and now to think of it, Carvalho was barely any taller).

But despite putting all these arguments, you can still stick to your opinions, but accept them. I said what I said, only after a post in which the poster clearly passed judgement on the player that 'he can't be a PFA player of the year member" and 'wont be a good buy'. No reasons, just judgements. Hence I felt it was totally valid to point out that there are better judges and better scouts out there.

I don't think that is taking things out of context because that logic is silly. Have seen situations where people use that logic when it suits to them but don't mention it when it doesn't.

• Person A likes Player B but person C doesn't. Person A then tells C that he/she is FOS because Manager/Club A/B/C want Player B and therefore Player B is good OR
• Person A doesn't like Player B but Manager A continues to play Player B. Person A doesn't use 'Manager A want Player B and therefore Player B is good' logic. Instead, Person A criticizes the manager instead

[Puliiszola 519]

10 minutes ago, Jason said:

I don't think that is taking things out of context because that logic is silly. Have seen situations where people use that logic when it suits to them but don't mention it when it doesn't.

Again, we have had discussions and have I used such arguments? Or with nicco, even though the 2 of us have had some heated ones too.

Difference is that A and C can have a difference of opinion but still try to understand each other's PoV. If C (for some weird reason), thinks they know better, and pass judgement then I feel A is within his rights to point out that their judgment might be massively wrong as better judgers have taken a very different call.

It's not something that I normally do or would do, but there is only so much anyone can so to 'i know this will happen'.

Anywyas, apologize if I crossed a line here. Or if this is against forum rules