Non-Chelsea Transfer Pub

[Stats 7,142]

20 minutes ago, the wes said:

Watching psv game this kid Donyell Malen looks the Real deal he's very similar to Depay 

Arsenal keep letting these talented youngsters slip from their academy. Gnabry and Malen. Malen got 5 goals in one game the other day IIRC. We have gone through the pain with KDB and Salah, but at least they weren't from our academy and have gotten over that now. That is why I was so relieved when we spurned Bayern's attempts to get CHO. 

 

[Vesper 30,183]

41 minutes ago, the wes said:

Watching psv game this kid Donyell Malen looks the Real deal he's very similar to Depay 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

1 hour ago, the wes said:

Watching psv game this kid Donyell Malen looks the Real deal he's very similar to Depay 

The player we need is Hakim Ziyech from Ajax. He scores goals and assists and will replace ageing willian on our right wing. His Left foot will give our attacking style a new dimension, him and CHO on the wings would be deadly for opponents.

[Vesper 30,183]

6 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

The player we need is Hakim Ziyech from Ajax. He scores goals and assists and will replace ageing willian on our right wing. His Left foot will give our attacking style a new dimension, him and CHO on the wings would be deadly for opponents.

pass, we would only get two full sub 30yo seasons out of him

I am done with buying older players with short peak windows left

[kellzfresh 7,229]

3 minutes ago, Vesper said:

pass, we would only get two full sub 30yo seasons out of him

I am done with buying older players with short peak windows left

Ziyech is 26 and about to enter his prime.... not that old

[Vesper 30,183]

1 minute ago, kellzfresh said:

Ziyech is 26 and about to enter his prime.... not that old

do your maths

buy him in summer 2020 (he will be 27)

he turns 28 in March of the 2020-21 season (ie next season)

turns 29 in the 2021-22 season

so only 2 full sub 30yo seasons

pass

 

 

[bigbluewillie 1,930]

18 hours ago, the wes said:

Watching psv game this kid Donyell Malen looks the Real deal he's very similar to Depay 

What the Manure Depay

or

The Ajax Depay

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

56 minutes ago, bigbluewillie said:

What the Manure Depay

or

The Ajax Depay

PSV Eindhoven* not Ajax.

Malen is definitely a talent though and has made his full Netherlands debut I am sure. Has also scored 20 goals in 54 games for PSV in the last 2 seasons. 

Also at Lyon Depay has probably been playing some of the best football of his career. He looks as if hes matured. 

[the wes 7,212]

1 hour ago, bigbluewillie said:

What the Manure Depay

or

The Ajax Depay

Lyon depay 

[LAM09 7,056]

PSV Eindhoven* not Ajax.
Malen is definitely a talent though and has made his full Netherlands debut I am sure. Has also scored 20 goals in 54 games for PSV in the last 2 seasons. 
Also at Lyon Depay has probably been playing some of the best football of his career. He looks as if hes matured. 

Never get overexcited about young talent in Holland during their first season. Dolberg is one that comes to mind in recent times.

[Vesper 30,183]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

PSV Eindhoven* not Ajax.

Malen is definitely a talent though and has made his full Netherlands debut I am sure. Has also scored 20 goals in 54 games for PSV in the last 2 seasons. 

Also at Lyon Depay has probably been playing some of the best football of his career. He looks as if hes matured. 

Malen actually has 25 goals and 10 assists in around 2400 total minutes over the past two seasons in top flight football, including Europe (CL and EL). He is tearing shit up at 19 and 20 years of age

that rate translates out to around 40 goals and 15 assists over a full seasons minutes, all comps

let's see if he can keep up that rate

[Atomiswave 6,117]

So whats the verdict Vesper? You think we will be allowed to spend in Jan? If so you think we will grab some? I doubt it.

[OneMoSalah 8,886]

1 hour ago, LAM09 said:

2 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

PSV Eindhoven* not Ajax.
Malen is definitely a talent though and has made his full Netherlands debut I am sure. Has also scored 20 goals in 54 games for PSV in the last 2 seasons. 
Also at Lyon Depay has probably been playing some of the best football of his career. He looks as if hes matured. 

Never get overexcited about young talent in Holland during their first season. Dolberg is one that comes to mind in recent times.

His record so far is pretty respectable. Got 47 goals in 123 games (Ligue 1, Europa League, League, Dutch Cup etc) which for someone under the age of 23 and plays CF, isnt nowhere near half as bad as youd think, that youd think would excite some people considering his age etc.

Hes still only 21 and can improve his goal return yet but he is a good player, just hasnt maintained that momentum he had in his first full season (understandably so as well being a 18 year old CF).

If you look all around Europe at CFs his goal returns is better than other modern day young CFs in their first 123 games, better return than guys like Rashfords, Balotelli who were dubbed huge talents, or even later bloomers such as Kane, Dolbergs first 123 games at club level is better IIRC. Its also very close to Agueros first 120 odd games as well. Hard to say somebody whos scored 46 goals in about 130 games is overrated or still not entirely exciting in terms of how much more they can improve. Depay was also a very good talent from Holland just didnt work at United. The amount of talent coming out of the Dutch league is still incredible. Not every players Frenkie de Jong or de Ligt but guys like Depay, Wjinaldum, even Lozano who developed there have all gone onto other clubs and found success or played at a higher level.

[LAM09 7,056]

His record so far is pretty respectable. Got 47 goals in 123 games (Ligue 1, Europa League, League, Dutch Cup etc) which for someone under the age of 23 and plays CF, isnt nowhere near half as bad as youd think, that youd think would excite some people considering his age etc. Hes still only 21 and can improve his goal return yet but he is a good player, just hasnt maintained that momentum he had in his first full season (understandably so as well being a 18 year old CF).

If you look all around Europe at CFs his goal returns is better than other modern day young CFs in their first 123 games, better return than guys like Rashfords, Balotelli who were dubbed huge talents, or even later bloomers such as Kane, Dolbergs first 123 games at club level is better IIRC. Its also very close to Agueros first 120 odd games as well. Hard to say somebody whos scored 46 goals in about 130 games is overrated or still not entirely exciting in terms of how much more they can improve. Depay was also a very good talent from Holland just didnt work at United. The amount of talent coming out of the Dutch league is still incredible. Not every players Frenkie de Jong or de Ligt but guys like Depay, Wjinaldum, even Lozano who developed there have all gone onto other clubs and found success or played at a higher level.

 

I never said he's overrated. Just believe people should keep their excitement in check, as there has been countless names in the last decade that have either been a flash in the pan or unable to consistently deliver in Holland or abroad. 

 

 

Numbers alone ought to be taken with a pinch of salt unless they are over a sustained period. Locadio scored 29 goals during 12/13 (19 years old).

[NikkiCFC 8,324]

1 hour ago, LAM09 said:

I never said he's overrated. Just believe people should keep their excitement in check, as there has been countless names in the last decade that have either been a flash in the pan or unable to consistently deliver in Holland or abroad. 

 

 

Numbers alone ought to be taken with a pinch of salt unless they are over a sustained period. Locadio scored 29 goals during 12/13 (19 years old).

Agree. Lewis Baker had amazing season there. Now he can't play in Championship. Another great example is Tadic. He was very average player for 3 years in Southampton and last season for Ajax he had 38 goals and 24 assists. Only Messi contributed to more goals in Europe. 

[Vesper 30,183]

22 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Agree. Lewis Baker had amazing season there. Now he can't play in Championship. Another great example is Tadic. He was very average player for 3 years in Southampton and last season for Ajax he had 38 goals and 24 assists. Only Messi contributed to more goals in Europe. 

Baker is starting for Fortuna Düsseldorf tonight in the Hertha Berlin game

he should have earned a pen when he was chopped down in the box

probably their best player do far

 

Dušan Tadić already has 8 goals and 10 assists for Ajax this year

so an insane 48 goals and 34 assists in the last 1 and a quarter or so seasons

that is indeed Messi-like numbers

granted, against lesser competition for a lot of those games

 

[LAM09 7,056]

Agree. Lewis Baker had amazing season there. Now he can't play in Championship. Another great example is Tadic. He was very average player for 3 years in Southampton and last season for Ajax he had 38 goals and 24 assists. Only Messi contributed to more goals in Europe. 

Or this "wonderkid" - https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/vincent-janssen/leistungsdaten/spieler/207015/plus/0?saison=2015

 

[Vesper 30,183]

CIES Football Observatory Monthly Report
n°48 - October 2019

---

Ten years of loans in the big-5 European leagues (2009-2019)

https://football-observatory.com/IMG/sites/mr/mr48/en/

The 48th Monthly Report of the CIES Football Observatory analyses the evolution of the number and characteristics of footballers having played on loan for teams of the five major European championships during the last decade. It shows that clubs from these leagues take more and more players on loan: from 2.62 per club and season between 2009 and 2014, up to 3.09 between 2014 and 2019 (+18%). In 2018/2019, footballers on loan played a record number of minutes in the big-5: 11.5%.

This evolution is notably explained by the tendency of wealthy teams (Manchester City, Chelsea, Juventus, etc.) to put under contract an increasing number of footballers with a sufficient sporting level to play in the major European leagues. This puts other clubs in a greater state of dependency when making up their squads, thus increasing their likelihood to take players on loan.

The study also shows that loans constitute in most of the cases a step towards a definitive departure. Indeed, only 29.6% of footballers lent to big-5 league clubs between 2009/10 and 2018/19 return to their owner team at the end of the loan period. In 27% of the occurrences, they were loaned again, while in the remaining 43.4% of cases they were transferred on a permanent basis to another team.

Regulation makes sense in avoiding the misuse of loan strategies orientated not towards a legitimate sporting logic to develop the potential of a young player on which the loaning team really counts, but rather towards an economic logic that aims to generate profits from the transfer market or a political logic aiming at exercising undue influence on rival clubs. In order to be effective, these measures should be implemented in parallel to the regulation of the questions of buy-back options (recompra) and the multi-ownership of clubs.

 

1. Introduction

A long-standing tradition in professional football, the loan of players fulfils different functions. The recourse to this strategy notably allows lending clubs to obtain experience for their young talents, most often with teams that are less financially well off, whilst keeping full control over transfer rights. From this point of view, the loan follows a logic that is both sporting and economic.

This Monthly Report analyses the evolution of the number and characteristics of footballers having played on loan for teams of the five major European championships (English Premier League, Spanish Liga, Italian Serie A, German Bundesliga and the French Ligue 1) over a ten season period between 2009/10 and 2018/19.

2. How many loans?

During the decade studied, the number of players on loan within clubs taking part in the five major European leagues has grown considerably. An increase of 18% was recorded between the first and last five seasons analysed: from 2.62 to 3.09 per club on average. In 2018/2019, footballers on loan played a record number of minutes within the big-5: 11.5%.

This evolution is notably explained by the tendency of wealthier teams to put under contract an increasing number of footballers with a sufficient sporting level to play in the major European leagues. This puts other clubs in a greater state of dependency when making up their squads, by increasing their likelihood to take players on loan.

The use of player loans varies widely according to league. The Serie A teams are by far those having the most players on loan: on average of 4.87 per club and season during the decade studied. Teams from the Spanish Liga are also strongly inclined to resort to loans (3.85), while their counterparts from the remaining three major European leagues are far less so. Between 2009/10 and 2018/19, footballers on loan only played 6.3% of minutes in the Bundesliga, compared to 14.5% in the Liga.

All the big-5 league teams having taken the biggest contingent of players on loan per season were Spanish or Italian. These are mainly clubs with limited financial resources. Most of the time, the heavy reliance on loans did not bring the expected results (10 relegations in 18 cases, best ranking for Genoa in 2014/15, 6th).

In the three other leagues of the big-5, the record number of players on loan by club and season was 8 in the French League 1 (Arles in 2010/2011 and Bastia in 2014/15), 7 in the German Bundesliga (Eintracht Frankfurt in 2018/19) and only 6 in the English Premier League (Portsmouth in 2009/10, Hull City in 2016/17 and Fulham in 2018/19).

The average age of players loaned to teams of the five major European championships has changed little over ten years with an average of 24.6 years. Considerable differences exist between leagues. At one extreme, German Bundesliga clubs mainly take young players on loan (23.1 years of age on average). At the other, teams from the English Premier League loan more experienced footballers (25.3 years of age).

3. Who loans?

While clubs taking the most players on loan have limited resources, among those who loan frequently are several dominant teams: Chelsea, Inter, Rome, Naples, Manchester City, etc. However, at the top of the rankings is a relatively modest team: Udinese. This position is linked to the fact that the owners of the Italian club were for a long period also the owners of Granada, where they lent many footballers.

snip

much more at the link above

[BigMabz 61]

Absolutely cant wait to see what Football Manager 2020 says about this years Chelsea team and the quality of our academy. Always thought that the game did no justice to the few academy's in world football that churn out top prospects. In FM, maybe 1 out of 50 youngsters from an academy becomes a good player. We are seeing right now that we have a group of talented youngsters right here in London. Sounds as though FM 2020 is going to make some tweaks to player development and the nurturing of younger prospects. Will be interesting to see what happens with the academy and how the likes of CHO, Pulisic, Abraham, Mount, James etc get rated. 

Anyway. UP THE CHELS

[Atomiswave 6,117]

Chelsea have been linked with a move for Neymar as soon as their transfer ban ends in the summer.

Spanish outlet Don Balon say the Blues want to sign Neymar for $230 million and after an entire year of not spending, Chelsea will certainly have some cash in the bank. But will they really have that much to spend?

Neymar, 27, wanted to leave Paris Saint-Germain this summer but his move to Barcelona or Real Madrid didn’t materialize and the Brazilian superstar is now lambasted by his own fans in the French capital.

It’s clear his move to PSG hasn’t quite worked out, as his main aim was to lead PSG to the UEFA Champions League title. That hasn’t happened and in his own words every PSG home game is now ‘like an away game’ as banners and chants against him are commonplace.

Would Frank Lampard and Chelsea want Neymar at Stamford Bridge?

There’s no doubting his sensational talent and his box office name will certainly generate plenty of extra income and cover a large chunk of the transfer fee and wages. However, Chelsea may struggle to fit in Neymar’s wage demands when it comes to financial fair play.

Hogwash most likely......but if it were to be true then I'll say fuck that. He has a lot of bags with him, EPL will rough him up like no other League he has been at. Would want high wages, costs a bomb. Much rather Sancho for less money and wages. Sancho would slot right in with our youngsters. Yes I know City has first option, but if he says no then they cant do Jack shit. And that is some BS reagrding we cant afford his wages etc......we are more than capable to afford anyone.