🇪🇸 Juan Mata

[Jase 43,479]

8 minutes ago, Tomo said:

He was very good in 11/12 (although just how good was being exaggerated due to how bad Kaloudanelka and Torres were) and was brilliant for the first half of 12/13 but after that season hit the new year his form fell off a cliff and it was Hazard, not him, delivering the goods to get us Europa and top four.

Really? If we look at the stats - from January till May 2013 - Mata contributed 6 goals and 19 assists (5 goals and 14 assists in PL + Europa League) while Hazard contributed 7 goals and 9 assists (6 goals and 7 assists in PL + Europa League). I know you aren't exactly fond of Mata but you're over-exaggerating when you said Hazard delivered the goods to get us top four and Europa League. He did contribute to some important goals, notably the equalizer against Sparta Prague and two assists at Aston Villa but in no way he was as influential as you made him out to be that season.

[Tomo 21,751]

Just now, Jason said:

Really? If we look at the stats - from January till May 2013 - Mata contributed 6 goals and 19 assists (5 goals and 14 assists in PL + Europa League) while Hazard contributed 7 goals and 9 assists (6 goals and 7 assists in PL + Europa League). I know you aren't exactly fond of Mata but you're over-exaggerating when you said Hazard delivered the goods to get us top four and Europa League. He did contribute to some important goals, notably the equalizer against Sparta Prague and two assists at Aston Villa but in no way he was as influential as you made him out to be that season.

I am fond of Mata, i just think his overall influence with us during his time here was greatly exaggerated. 

[MrExcalibur100 7,124]

2 hours ago, Tomo said:

 

I'd say it's more revisionist claiming he was brilliant right up until the moment he was sold when in reality was he was under par for the best part of a year before we let him go to Man U, and he has got even worse since then.

He was very good in 11/12 (although just how good was being exaggerated due to how bad Kaloudanelka and Torres were) and was brilliant for the first half of 12/13 but after that season hit the new year his form fell off a cliff and it was Hazard, not him, delivering the goods to get us Europa and top four. Judging by the comments on his thread in Redcafe then he hasn't got any better atall, in fact (ironically) most of them are talking about him in the same vein we did Oscar at the very end.

He was a decent player for us and his arrival (and creativity) came at a time it was so desperately needed but to get £37m out of him when we did was incredible business, the big mistake that window was the other AM that slipped through the net!!!

I'll say from March onwards not from the 2nd half i.e January. Hazard started playing at a different level and surpassed him at that point. 

[DDA 10,204]

3 hours ago, Tomo said:

I am fond of Mata, i just think his overall influence with us during his time here was greatly exaggerated. 

Hardly exageratted. He was a very good player for us Tomo. You have a better memory than myself, so you are able to pluck stats from out of the blue but everytime I went to The Bridge which was a lot during Matas time here... I would often leave thinking Mata was excellent.

[Tomo 21,751]

9 minutes ago, DDA said:

Hardly exageratted. He was a very good player for us Tomo. You have a better memory than myself, so you are able to pluck stats from out of the blue but everytime I went to The Bridge which was a lot during Matas time here... I would often leave thinking Mata was excellent.

He was very good in his prime, but he seemed to nosedive around about early 2013 and hasn't gone back to his best to this day. Watching him for United these days i can't believe he's actually the same player.

[DDA 10,204]

1 hour ago, Tomo said:

He was very good in his prime, but he seemed to nosedive around about early 2013 and hasn't gone back to his best to this day. Watching him for United these days i can't believe he's actually the same player.

I know man. He was always slow but made up for it with his technical ability on the ball. Now he looks even more lack lusture, weak and even deprived of any serious ability on the ball. It's quite astonishing how much enviornment and lack self belief can negitively affect a player.

[RoyalBlues 4,050]

https://juanmata8.com/en/blog/not-the-time-for-posts/

....must be something serious happened there 

[Special Juan 28,730]

Probably JM being a cunt again.

[OneMoSalah 9,089]

For a player who seems to split opinions now he was crucial for us when he played here. Always came up with something in big games too, although he won't get the credit for that as perhaps others would. Think we are sometimes blinded by the fact we have Eden but reckon the team wouod of been better if both Eden and Juan played with each other for more seasons. Also imagine Mata playing with Costa, Pedro and Fabregas? What could have been. Espeically Pedro and Costa, his ability to find players in behind teams was brilliant. Selling him worked out okay though after initial outrage, same with KDB, both weren't exactly improving or showing why they should have stayed, especially KDB who was demoted tontrain with u21s after playing absolutely pish against a league 1 side. Maybe now he's flourished but.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

Just now, OneMoSalah said:

For a player who seems to split opinions now he was crucial for us when he played here. Always came up with something in big games too, although he won't get the credit for that as perhaps others would. Think we are sometimes blinded by the fact we have Eden but reckon the team wouod of been better if both Eden and Juan played with each other for more seasons. Also imagine Mata playing with Costa and Fabregas? What could have been.

I never realized that he split opinion.  I assumed that everyone knew he was class, on and off the pitch.

[OneMoSalah 9,089]

Just now, Sideshow Luiz said:

I never realized that he split opinion.  I assumed that everyone knew he was class, on and off the pitch.

Well based on some United fans and the looks of this forum it would seem he is being looked back upon as good as opposed to being our best player at the time when he was here. He always delivered something in matches. Even after Eden and Oscar arrived, always did. Mourinho was the beginning of the end for him though.

[Jase 43,479]

7 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Well based on some United fans and the looks of this forum it would seem he is being looked back upon as good as opposed to being our best player at the time when he was here. He always delivered something in matches. Even after Eden and Oscar arrived, always did. Mourinho was the beginning of the end for him though.

This Mata-Mourinho relationship is something I'll never understand. Mourinho couldn't wait to bin him when he returned in 2013 and Mata himself left at the earliest opportunity. Now at United, Mourinho has used him more often - though not consistently - while Mata seems content with not starting games and happy to just come off the bench and make an impact. And speaking of Mata, it feels like he's lost the desire to win things and playing and making impact week in week out. Compare to what he did here, he now just feels content to let his career drift into nothingness. He's 30 years old this year, should have been at his peak over the last 2-3 years but as things stand, his career is just gonna drift away like any other average player. *sigh*

[El P. 1,354]

48 minutes ago, Jason said:

This Mata-Mourinho relationship is something I'll never understand. Mourinho couldn't wait to bin him when he returned in 2013 and Mata himself left at the earliest opportunity. Now at United, Mourinho has used him more often - though not consistently - while Mata seems content with not starting games and happy to just come off the bench and make an impact. And speaking of Mata, it feels like he's lost the desire to win things and playing and making impact week in week out. Compare to what he did here, he now just feels content to let his career drift into nothingness. He's 30 years old this year, should have been at his peak over the last 2-3 years but as things stand, his career is just gonna drift away like any other average player. *sigh*

Should have returned to Spain after Mou came to United...

[Tomo 21,751]

48 minutes ago, Jason said:

This Mata-Mourinho relationship is something I'll never understand. Mourinho couldn't wait to bin him when he returned in 2013 and Mata himself left at the earliest opportunity. Now at United, Mourinho has used him more often - though not consistently - while Mata seems content with not starting games and happy to just come off the bench and make an impact. And speaking of Mata, it feels like he's lost the desire to win things and playing and making impact week in week out. Compare to what he did here, he now just feels content to let his career drift into nothingness. He's 30 years old this year, should have been at his peak over the last 2-3 years but as things stand, his career is just gonna drift away like any other average player. *sigh*

I think you have basically answered your own question, Mata choose to leave us and choose to stay at United. I think the main aspect of his decision comes down to the fact there was serious demand for him while he was with us which wasn't really the case when Mou rocked up at United.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

I think you have basically answered your own question, Mata choose to leave us and choose to stay at United. I think the main aspect of his decision comes down to the fact there was serious demand for him while he was with us which wasn't really the case when Mou rocked up at United.

Should have known you would reply!  

The likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona might not want him but if he's in the market, I'm sure clubs like Inter or Milan or slightly lesser ones would want him and I don't think he has high wage demands anyway. 

[OneMoSalah 9,089]

6 hours ago, Jason said:

This Mata-Mourinho relationship is something I'll never understand. Mourinho couldn't wait to bin him when he returned in 2013 and Mata himself left at the earliest opportunity. Now at United, Mourinho has used him more often - though not consistently - while Mata seems content with not starting games and happy to just come off the bench and make an impact. And speaking of Mata, it feels like he's lost the desire to win things and playing and making impact week in week out. Compare to what he did here, he now just feels content to let his career drift into nothingness. He's 30 years old this year, should have been at his peak over the last 2-3 years but as things stand, his career is just gonna drift away like any other average player. *sigh*

Perhaps but he never fit United traditionally as a player, same with Kagawa in a way. They played with out and out wingers and where as now they still have wingers but who are more inside forwards and are very narrow at times.

Regardless,  he needs to be in a more offensive team with midfield runners, that's when he's at his best, when he can come into that half spaces and find people running in behind. That's why I think if he was here with Pedro and Costa he'd of been a huge plus for us playing as a 10 because those 2 love to run in behind teams (although Mourinho preferred Oscar to Mata because he would hunt the ball down, sigh). Costa's movement especially would of been fantastic for Juan but we all know how it went. I would imagine Conte could of found use for him too in that wide 10 roles we used in a 343 too.

Even when he signed for United he was arguably better than any other attacking MF players they had but they shunted him on the right and his lack of pace affected his performances (traditionally youd expect a Ronaldo, Nani, Giggs, somebody who had real pace and energy in those positions) and Moyes tried to keep United playing in that style with wingers and crosses into the box that Ferguson's teams had become renowned for and been very successful with. Hence why he also signed Fellaini, a strong aeriel player who would be a handful in the box. Again I'm not fully convinced Moyes wanted Mata 100% like he did Fellaini but United were desperate after their summer failings too... it worked our alright for us though, he's not a bad player but unless playing as a 10 (where Rooney played mostly) he wasn't exactly a United player in that sense. Although he had some good games under van Gaal as a right winger or a false right winger as van Gaal called it 😂

There have been times where I've seen us play though and thought we could do with him for that final pass because Willian and Pedro can be very poor with that and force it. If Mata was around the box he'd conjure up something. Also for a more creative player he would chip in with 10 plus goals a season on top of the chances he created/assisted, he has managed it 5 times in his career in England. 

He has been unfortunate with his international career as well because Spain have got so many talented players across the board in those positions too. Same can be said for a lot of Spaniards though.

Edited December 4, 2018 by OneMoSalah

[nyikolajevics 2,829]

Still got class

[Yeboii 1,844]

1 minute ago, nyikolajevics said:

Still got class

Showed that he has no class when he celebrated his goal against us

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, nyikolajevics said:

Still got class

Shouldn't have left us...

[Tomo 21,751]

22 minutes ago, Jason said:

Shouldn't have left us...

I got nothing to say just commenting because i know what you'll be thinking when you see i quoted you