Romelu Lukaku

[Pizy 18,368]

2 minutes ago, Stats said:

I think it may help Lukaku more if he is playing with likes of CHO also. When Havertz and Mount are behind Lukaku, there is not enough pace. CHO runs at defenders and his directness makes us more fluid and even allows likes of James and Chilwell to overlap and pass into the box. I think Lukaku, when he comes into the team would benefit playing with him in the team.

Bingo. I think and hope Rom will benefit massively from speedy or tricky players who are now in great form like CHO, Pulisic, and even Ziyech around him. Perhaps the Lukaku and Werner combo.

I’m not writing this signing off as a mistake like so many here have yet. If we still look poor with him in the team come the end of the season then questions can be asked. 

[Alabama 1,992]

32 minutes ago, Stats said:

I think it may help Lukaku more if he is playing with likes of CHO also. When Havertz and Mount are behind Lukaku, there is not enough pace. CHO runs at defenders and his directness makes us more fluid and even allows likes of James and Chilwell to overlap and pass into the box. I think Lukaku, when he comes into the team would benefit playing with him in the team.

Finally a sane post... 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, King Kante said:

Apprantly the xG average with him in the side is 1.5 whereas, without him it is 2.5. Of course the quality of opposition has gone down a bit but that is not a good look at all. What is pleasing is that we know TT looks and values this stat a lot. 

Am perhaps a tad more interested to see how will our pressing go.

You only have to see yesterday's game, for example, at how effective and relentless we pressed Juventus from back to front. We constantly harassed and never allowed them to settle (until we went 3-0 up) and build any sort of momentum. We know pressing is not an issue with Havertz, Werner, Pulisic, Mount, CHO and Ziyech. But Lukaku? Would we have been able to press the way we did last night had Lukaku played? 

[Jase 43,479]

47 minutes ago, Stats said:

I think it may help Lukaku more if he is playing with likes of CHO also. When Havertz and Mount are behind Lukaku, there is not enough pace. CHO runs at defenders and his directness makes us more fluid and even allows likes of James and Chilwell to overlap and pass into the box. I think Lukaku, when he comes into the team would benefit playing with him in the team.

Is it really that simple?

We have always tended to look better without a traditional #9 - something Lukaku only is in the team - leading the line under Tuchel. Our attacking play is more fluid because there's constant movement and interchanging and the pressing is also much more effective (take yesterday's game for example). 

Not writing Lukaku off but there are definitely still question marks to be answered as to how he will fit in effectively to the team. 

[King Kante 1,476]

58 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Bingo. I think and hope Rom will benefit massively from speedy or tricky players who are now in great form like CHO, Pulisic, and even Ziyech around him. Perhaps the Lukaku and Werner combo.

I’m not writing this signing off as a mistake like so many here have yet. If we still look poor with him in the team come the end of the season then questions can be asked. 

Thing is he has Rashford and Martial to play with at Utd and that didn't work either. As @Jase says, it isn't even just his technical limitations and off the ball work but also his pressing that is a big issue. 

As for writing him off, I personally did that as soon as we were linked as the player I saw in Italy was the same player that Utd couldn't wait to get rid of. 

[Tomo 21,733]

18 minutes ago, King Kante said:

Thing is he has Rashford and Martial to play with at Utd and that didn't work either. As @Jase says, it isn't even just his technical limitations and off the ball work but also his pressing that is a big issue. 

As for writing him off, I personally did that as soon as we were linked as the player I saw in Italy was the same player that Utd couldn't wait to get rid of. 

I can't find the article again but I read somewhere (just before Rom got injured) that we were marginally above Spurs at pressing at that point and we know how lifeless they were under Nuno.

If Lukaku comes back and earns his spot like Callum has fine, but given how good we look without him it's up to him to adapt to us not the other way round.

[Stats 7,054]

2 hours ago, Jase said:

Is it really that simple?

We have always tended to look better without a traditional #9 - something Lukaku only is in the team - leading the line under Tuchel. Our attacking play is more fluid because there's constant movement and interchanging and the pressing is also much more effective (take yesterday's game for example). 

Not writing Lukaku off but there are definitely still question marks to be answered as to how he will fit in effectively to the team. 

I also think our attacking play has been more fluid, because there is actual WIDTH! Mount and Havertz, as good as they are, when they play together in the attacking trio, it narrows our width and I would say it is easier to mark Lukaku. When you have wide players who run at opposition, it creates gaps. I genuinely reckon Lukaku would thrive of this. Lukaku's movement is really good too. It is not as if he is a static player.

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, Stats said:

I also think our attacking play has been more fluid, because there is actual WIDTH! Mount and Havertz, as good as they are, when they play together in the attacking trio, it narrows our width and I would say it is easier to mark Lukaku. When you have wide players who run at opposition, it creates gaps. I genuinely reckon Lukaku would thrive of this. Lukaku's movement is really good too. It is not as if he is a static player.

Not sure I'd agree with that. Lukaku hasn't played with Mount and Havertz every time and the last time all 3 played together was at Spurs, IIRC. If you look at the games, you'd find Lukaku mostly static through the middle and doesn't offer much movement compared to when Havertz or Werner lead the line. In fact, I don't see this width factor being brought up last season but it's suddenly an issue with Lukaku? 

[NikkiCFC 7,948]

What a smart business by Inter. Dzeko already 10 goals.

He is doing what Lukaku was doing but they sold Lukaku for 115m euros and bought him for zero.

You dont lose any quality but you get huge profit. Such a shame we were the sheep in this case.

[Stats 7,054]

2 hours ago, Jase said:

Not sure I'd agree with that. Lukaku hasn't played with Mount and Havertz every time and the last time all 3 played together was at Spurs, IIRC. If you look at the games, you'd find Lukaku mostly static through the middle and doesn't offer much movement compared to when Havertz or Werner lead the line. In fact, I don't see this width factor being brought up last season but it's suddenly an issue with Lukaku? 

I am more referring to the point that Lukaku has not played with CHO often. Werner was paired with him a few times and that has shown glimpses of working, however Werner has not got CHO directness on the ball. I think Lukaku would benefit from that. Like I say, for me he would benefit in a game like yesterday. You have one very creative player in Ziyech, whilst the other is pacey and direct in CHO. The play is more fluid and I think it would work. However when we see for instance: Mount, Ziyech and Lukaku or Mount, Havertz, Lukaku for instance, I think it is more easier for opposition. 

It seems most people have wrote Lukaku of anyway. Same way they did with CHO and Ziyech earlier. It is all a revolving cycle. LOL.

[Jase 43,479]

28 minutes ago, Stats said:

I am more referring to the point that Lukaku has not played with CHO often. Werner was paired with him a few times and that has shown glimpses of working, however Werner has not got CHO directness on the ball. I think Lukaku would benefit from that. Like I say, for me he would benefit in a game like yesterday. You have one very creative player in Ziyech, whilst the other is pacey and direct in CHO. The play is more fluid and I think it would work. However when we see for instance: Mount, Ziyech and Lukaku or Mount, Havertz, Lukaku for instance, I think it is more easier for opposition. 

So, we bought a player that cost almost 100m to solve a problem but now we need another player to solve a problem with the problem solver? 

Even if we play CHO with Lukaku more, I don't see how that will suddenly make Lukaku roam around more. Tuchel's system is all about movement, interchanging and Lukaku doesn't really do that. And that's without even mentioning the part about our pressing with Lukaku in the side.

36 minutes ago, Stats said:

It seems most people have wrote Lukaku of anyway.

That is such a lazy trope to keep on saying. How about yet to be convinced? 

[Stats 7,054]

7 hours ago, Jase said:

Even if we play CHO with Lukaku more, I don't see how that will suddenly make Lukaku roam around more. Tuchel's system is all about movement, interchanging and Lukaku doesn't really do that. And that's without even mentioning the part about our pressing with Lukaku in the side.

 

Well I don't fully agree. Lukaku often goes to the RW and drives at the opposition. He might not be as fluid as our other attackers, however it is not as if he is some slouch who doesn't move. Against Arsenal, his movement caused havoc and he should of scored more than one. When we played Southampton and won 3-1, although he did not score, I thought he linked up well with Werner in that game. We have been very good without him, but judging by the comments, you would think when Lukaku has played we have looked awful. Another thing I would say is that when Lukaku got injured, our fixtures after that were quite generous on paper, and were games you would expect us to win. Who is to say Lukaku would not have smashed in the goals during those games?... 

I have generally been impressed how we fared without Lukaku tbh and it is good that we have proved we don't need to rely on him, however I would also say in the main no.9 spot or false no.9/ it still has been hit and miss. Havertz has had his moments and linked up well but then sometimes underwhelmed also.

 

7 hours ago, Jase said:

So, we bought a player that cost almost 100m to solve a problem but now we need another player to solve a problem with the problem solver? 

 

Nope. Just an idea to try something. Same way Tuchel tried Werner and Lukaku and that showed glimpses of potential, I will like to see CHO play with Lukaku also.

 

7 hours ago, Jase said:

That is such a lazy trope to keep on saying. How about yet to be convinced? 

It really isn't. I always am a person for remaining patient with players, but look how many people were quick to get onto Ziyech throughout season and now will probably be like he deserves a chance. CHO has been constantly written off, even though he has not really been given a proper go in his best position. Now he is given a fair shot, people finally realising how good he is. Lukaku did look off for past few games before he got injured, but you would think he has been totally detrimental to our season. He will return and score I am sure but the fan reactions with players are always Jekyll and Hyde with players anyway. Nothing new.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Stats

[SomethingSomething 17]

As a team we play better without him.

We have better system. Even Werner who isnt reliable scorer is more useful in this system because he creates space, adds speed and most importantly since we dont have focal point, its harder for opponents to stop us.

Besides the super defence and strong pressing, this is why we won CL last year and could win another title soon. 

With Lukaku, we play to his strenghts, but unfortunely he isnt good enough to make entire team suit him.

However, even with current setup, goals will dry out. James, Chilwell, Mount, Kai, Werner isnt reliable scorer. Fortunely for us, we have so many players and everytime someone is there to score. But a slump could happen.

And that is where we will either benefit from Lukaku and go on to win everything there is or he wont be a reliable striker and we wasted 100m. 

Tuchel and Lukaku need to see this, he will be more useful from the bench in some cases and he will have to take huge responsibility to lead the attack in other cases.

Also, Chilly and James are by far our most important players. They arent defensive liability and create complete mayhem on other end. Lukaku should benefit from them once they gel together. Hopefuly Chilly recovers fast.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

Well I don't fully agree. Lukaku often goes to the RW and drives at the opposition. He might not be as fluid as our other attackers, however it is not as if he is some slouch who doesn't move. 

Really? The heatmap of his matches doesn't suggest so and to the eye, he has consistently stayed in the middle and provided a reference point, which has turned out to be easy for the opposition to deal with him. 

1 hour ago, Stats said:

Against Arsenal, his movement caused havoc and he should of scored more than one.

Earlier on you said Havertz and Mount don't work well with Lukaku but here, you are using a game that they did well. So, which is it?

He caused havoc to Arsenal but his position was largely still through the center. On top of that, it was an Arsenal side missing some key players and an Arsenal side who didn't have a clue how to deal with him. Since then, every opposition we have faced have had a clue on how to deal with him. 

1 hour ago, Stats said:

We have been very good without him, but judging by the comments, you would think when Lukaku has played we have looked awful.

It's not so much we have looked awful with Lukaku. It's just we look less fluid going forward with Lukaku, which in turn affects our chance creation, and his inclusion also affects our pressing game. 

1 hour ago, Stats said:

Another thing I would say is that when Lukaku got injured, our fixtures after that were quite generous on paper, and were games you would expect us to win.

Yes, I agree our fixtures have been kind but that was up until the recent international break. The last two fixtures were not kind at all and we completely steamrolled them both without him.

1 hour ago, Stats said:

Who is to say Lukaku would not have smashed in the goals during those games?... 

For sure he could have scored against the likes of Norwich, Newcastle etc but are we supposed to pat a striker, a supposedly missing piece in the jigsaw that we spent almost a 100 million on, on the back for scoring against relegation material teams? 

2 hours ago, Stats said:

It really isn't. I always am a person for remaining patient with players, but look how many people were quick to get onto Ziyech throughout season and now will probably be like he deserves a chance. CHO has been constantly written off, even though he has not really been given a proper go in his best position. Now he is given a fair shot, people finally realising how good he is. Lukaku did look off for past few games before he got injured, but you would think he has been totally detrimental to our season. He will return and score I am sure but the fan reactions with players are always Jekyll and Hyde with players anyway. Nothing new.

I don't think many here were really parading Lukaku before he got injured. So any doubts about him now is nothing new since they were already voiced before.

With Ziyech, are you really surprised? One minute, he plays well and the next, he doesn't play well (e.g. losing ball cheaply either through his attempt or getting brushed off the ball).

With CHO, it's not really about position. When we have had 3 managers who have questioned him, it's more than just about position. Good on CHO for doing better of late but you only have to look at what Tuchel said before he got this run of games. He mentioned how CHO cannot be satisfied with just one good moment, a good 60 minutes or one good game. He has to consistently produce it etc. 

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

12 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

What a smart business by Inter. Dzeko already 10 goals.

He is doing what Lukaku was doing but they sold Lukaku for 115m euros and bought him for zero.

You dont lose any quality but you get huge profit. Such a shame we were the sheep in this case.

I've always rejected Rom's cover story for changing his tune and deciding to re-join Chelsea. The claim that he "Had unfinished business at Chelsea", just doesn't fly. Instead, as I said at the time, I believe that he was motivated by the jingle of Chelsea's wallet and by the realisation that Inter preferred the money over him.

[Tomo 21,733]

3 hours ago, Stats said:

I have generally been impressed how we fared without Lukaku tbh and it is good that we have proved we don't need to rely on him, however I would also say in the main no.9 spot or false no.9/ it still has been hit and miss. Havertz has had his moments and linked up well but then sometimes underwhelmed also.

The thing with false 9 is they don't have to be that great themselves to elevate the set up, Firmino at Liverpool is the prime example of that, he doesn't hog the limelight like Mane and Salah do but I bet the latter pair would be worse off if they were flanking a traditional number 9, even Haaland.

The fact we have shown how well we play without Rom means it's now up to him to adapt to us and not the other way round. On the ball I think a manager as clued up as Tuchel can find a solution but my main concern is off it, his pressing game is absolutely non existent, case in point being before his injury we were marginally better than Spurs in that regard and it's well documented how lifeless they were under Nuno.

If Rom makes the most of his next chance(s) and earns his spot on merit like Callum has then fine, but I don't want him walsing back in and playing every minute unconditionally like what Lampard did to a wildly out of sorts Kante.

Edited November 25, 2021 by Tomo

[Stats 7,054]

8 hours ago, Jase said:

Really? The heatmap of his matches doesn't suggest so and to the eye, he has consistently stayed in the middle and provided a reference point, which has turned out to be easy for the opposition to deal with him. 

Earlier on you said Havertz and Mount don't work well with Lukaku but here, you are using a game that they did well. So, which is it?

He caused havoc to Arsenal but his position was largely still through the center. On top of that, it was an Arsenal side missing some key players and an Arsenal side who didn't have a clue how to deal with him. Since then, every opposition we have faced have had a clue on how to deal with him. 

It's not so much we have looked awful with Lukaku. It's just we look less fluid going forward with Lukaku, which in turn affects our chance creation, and his inclusion also affects our pressing game. 

Yes, I agree our fixtures have been kind but that was up until the recent international break. The last two fixtures were not kind at all and we completely steamrolled them both without him.

For sure he could have scored against the likes of Norwich, Newcastle etc but are we supposed to pat a striker, a supposedly missing piece in the jigsaw that we spent almost a 100 million on, on the back for scoring against relegation material teams? 

I don't think many here were really parading Lukaku before he got injured. So any doubts about him now is nothing new since they were already voiced before.

With Ziyech, are you really surprised? One minute, he plays well and the next, he doesn't play well (e.g. losing ball cheaply either through his attempt or getting brushed off the ball).

With CHO, it's not really about position. When we have had 3 managers who have questioned him, it's more than just about position. Good on CHO for doing better of late but you only have to look at what Tuchel said before he got this run of games. He mentioned how CHO cannot be satisfied with just one good moment, a good 60 minutes or one good game. He has to consistently produce it etc. 

That game against Arsenal, all were exceptionally good. We ran them ragged, but generally speaking in other games, it has not worked as much.

With CHO agreed, but while it is very difficult to get that run at us to the depth we have, if we have not given him more than one game to show how he fares in his best position, it will always be difficult. other than that, yes I agree with most points made.

7 hours ago, Tomo said:

The thing with false 9 is they don't have to be that great themselves to elevate the set up, Firmino at Liverpool is the prime example of that, he doesn't hog the limelight like Mane and Salah do but I bet the latter pair would be worse off if they were flanking a traditional number 9, even Haaland.

The fact we have shown how well we play without Rom means it's now up to him to adapt to us and not the other way round. On the ball I think a manager as clued up as Tuchel can find a solution but my main concern is off it, his pressing game is absolutely non existent, case in point being before his injury we were marginally better than Spurs in that regard and it's well documented how lifeless they were under Nuno.

If Rom makes the most of his next chance(s) and earns his spot on merit like Callum has then fine, but I don't want him walsing back in and playing every minute unconditionally like what Lampard did to a wildly out of sorts Kante.

Yep, that is where I agree. I was relieved when he took him off against Brentford because he looked really bad.

[blues.bridge 343]

only I hope such a scenario? Next summer kane go out fron spurs and them with Conte come to us for Lukaku, I would sold him immediatly