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DavidEU

Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

8 hours ago, the wes said:

What a nice thing to do even know he's a real player now I hope hazard gets a hero's welcome if we get real in the champions League 

If anyone compares him to Courtois, show them this. 

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4 hours ago, 1905didierblue said:

As a 32 year old. Will be a luxury buy.

He'll be fat. Doesn't take care of himself now lol the fatty boom boom. Cheeseburgers will make that arse gigantic 

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On 27/06/2019 at 11:36 AM, OhForAGreavsie said:

Well, every rating system gives it to Neymar but I think it's closer than this suggests.

Playing in a genuinely effective team makes so big a difference that Eden has been at a huge disadvantage for the bulk of his career. When your side moves the ball quickly, with purpose and with the kind of quality which wrong foots defenders, then running lanes open and the impact of any movement is multiplied. When your passes are collected by Messi or Suarez then your statistics are going to get a boost. I think this compensates for the differences which lead to Neymar being consistently rated above Eden.

Honestly that is a true and false statement. The years we won the league we were really good, played different styles etc and he did well. The likes of a Messi, Ronaldo, even Neymar of 2 years ago, you could stick them in any team and they would do well, and be involved in 40 goals minimum. Hazard will do well at Madrid but the excuse that he was at a disadvantage playing here or even at Lille is wholely not true. Great players make others around them play better. Not just great teams make one player play better. Sure he doesnt like tracking back or playing in a team that plays a low block or counter attacking football or whatever but thats upto the manager. He got himself to a brilliant level here, playing in a couple of very very good teams. Yes playing with Marcelo/Mendy will be different to Alonso and Emerson, or playing with Modric will be different to playing with Kovacic/Kante or whoever but I wouldnt say Eden was held back here, he just had his best season statistically. Its not like he didnt have chances to score more goals, create more chances, get more assists (okay strikers not amazing but still),  play better in some games over the span of his Chelsea career? He grew here, to one of the best in Europe. Hes a much better footballer for playing with us than if he went somewhere else I would argue because hes had the chance to work with managers like Rafa Benitez, Jose Mourinho, Antonio Conte who have all got so much experience pushing top players as well as winning trophies. Everyone of them all gave him something different. Even the other managers who have been here. Just look at some of the players too he played with here who all had either or a mixture of great ability (if not when here somewhere else like Eto'o who was one of the best strikers about), winning mentality and big match experience, the likes of Cech, Drogba, Lampard, Cole, JT, Fabregas, Costa, even Eto'o among countless others. Theres no doubt we could have had better teams when hes been here but every club will say the same about their teams , there isnt a perfect team out there.

I think when he signed it was the perfect choice for his career progression due to the fact we could afford to give him more assurances for playing time than City or United at that moment, as well as countless top managers, top players around him as well as the winning mentality that the older heads have. 

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Agree with @OneMoSalah above.

Like many here have stated over and over again, except his true fans (who predictably are gone by now), his lack of grit is what holds him back: both during games and at practice. You can see that he’s not the most fit footballer.

For all his faults, Neymar also gets injured a lot because he exposes himself a lot. Never though eden did that especially when games turned rough as in physical. Again, the grit part.

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Agree with [mention=3876]OneMoSalah[/mention] above.
Like many here have stated over and over again, except his true fans (who predictably are gone by now), his lack of grit is what holds him back: both during games and at practice. You can see that he’s not the most fit footballer.
For all his faults, Neymar also gets injured a lot because he exposes himself a lot. Never though eden did that especially when games turned rough as in physical. Again, the grit part.
Stop posting.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

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On 6/27/2019 at 6:36 PM, OhForAGreavsie said:

Well, every rating system gives it to Neymar but I think it's closer than this suggests.

Playing in a genuinely effective team makes so big a difference that Eden has been at a huge disadvantage for the bulk of his career. When your side moves the ball quickly, with purpose and with the kind of quality which wrong foots defenders, then running lanes open and the impact of any movement is multiplied. When your passes are collected by Messi or Suarez then your statistics are going to get a boost. I think this compensates for the differences which lead to Neymar being consistently rated above Eden.

I think Neymar and Hazard are pretty much at the same tier. Statistic wise hazard number will definitely be worse because during his time here he has played under defensive manager. If Hazard play for klopp or Pep, I can see his number going up easily. Just look at sterling number. 

 

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20 minutes ago, communicate said:

I think Neymar and Hazard are pretty much at the same tier. Statistic wise hazard number will definitely be worse because during his time here he has played under defensive manager. If Hazard play for klopp or Pep, I can see his number going up easily. Just look at sterling number. 

 

Good point. People can certainly argue that Neymar is better than Hazard, and that argument may even be right. I very much doubt however that many people would buy into the idea that Sterling's numbers suggest that he too is a better player than Eden. My feeling is that if you swapped their teams, you would also swap their numbers.

I'm not saying anybody here doubts that the quality of the team he plays for makes a difference to the impact a player can have. It's just a question of how big that difference in quality has really been in this case, and exactly how big a difference, if any, it has made in the Eden vs Neymar debate.

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9 hours ago, Thor said:

Stop posting.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
 

No?! :) 

Please use the ignore list so you don’t have to read them? 🙄 

Thought that all the hazard police would be gone by now. 

to the people actually discussing footy here, are you not missing something obvious? Hazard is well behind his peers in terms of shooting, especially from outside of the box. That has little to do with style or formation.

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Hazard isn't a finisher, he's a creator. He's the player you want just behind an Aguero, Suarez, Lewandowski, etc. 

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20 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Hazard isn't a finisher, he's a creator. He's the player you want just behind an Aguero, Suarez, Lewandowski, etc. 

Sure. I see him more effective as a dribbler than a guy who can find that killer pass tho. That’s KDB.

And dribbling IMO is a bit easier to contain. Give him the side, low block, just contain.

that goes into personal preferences of course, but at this level we are essentially merely discussing what is slightly more effective and in which conditions.

you are in CL semi and you can pick one player to chase a goal, who would that be? In my (fun) list KDB would be well above hazard but that’s just me. :)

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4 minutes ago, Robchels said:

Sure. I see him more effective as a dribbler than a guy who can find that killer pass tho. That’s be KDB.

And dribbling IMO is a bit easier to contain. Give him the side, low block, just contain.

that goes into personal preferences of course, but at this level we are essentially merely discussing what is slightly more effective and in which conditions.

you are in CL semi and you can pick on player to chase a goal, who would that be? In my (fun) list KDB would be well above hazard but that’s just me. :)

You have an uncanny dislike towards Hazard don't you? :lol:

I'd say Hazard's dribbling ability is what makes him an effective creator. He may not be a deadly finisher in the box, but he finds the right pass. Since his time in the premier league, he's created more chances than 'Killer pass' experts in David Silva, Ozil, and Eriksen. 

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40 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

You have an uncanny dislike towards Hazard don't you? :lol:

I'd say Hazard's dribbling ability is what makes him an effective creator. He may not be a deadly finisher in the box, but he finds the right pass. Since his time in the premier league, he's created more chances than 'Killer pass' experts in David Silva, Ozil, and Eriksen. 

I don’t. I mean don’t really care about him now that he’s not our player. I know too many footballers in person to be a fan of any of them. :) 

it is really interesting that folks really cannot accept that i think hazard is overrated and less effective than other great players within his tier. I’m far from alone btw.

I also find interesting that while many here agree that he lacks determination, they don’t link that with reaching one’s full potential. So, in a way I see him a bit like ronaldinho. While ronaldinho chose partying, hazard chose a laid back lifestyle with his family. Fair choices, but you can’t have it both ways. ;) They both lacked grit and athleticism.

as a Brazilian, I’ve seen many many amazing dribblers. It’s a very Brazilian thing. In my view dribbling is an important  tool, but creating opportunities, the final ball, is really a different skill set: more akin to passing and vision. I’ve seen amazing dribblers who had trouble with that last ball. Hazard is better than them, because he is more effective at that last pass, but he’s also not as effective as others (in his tier) in that.

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15 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

"For all his faults, Neymar also gets injured a lot because he exposes himself a lot. Never though eden did that especially when games turned rough as in physical. Again, the grit part."

https://tenor.com/view/neymar-football-dive-gif-7797418

 

giphy.gif

Grit, physical, rough. 

You know they are not mutually exclusive right? 🙄 he dives a lot and at the same time is a bit more dedicated both in games and practice - Neymar is actually extremely fit and very dedicated in practice. at least that’s what they say in Barcelona.

Not really sure why you keep bringing Neymar up as an exemple. Really not a fan. Neymar is VERY overrated and not even in my top 10 list in Brazil. Also not mutually exclusive, both Neymar and hazard are overrated.

Don’t care that much about WC or NT either. Much prefer club football, which is vastly superior.

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1 hour ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Who over rates them exactly? 

Here, Belgium fans (same way Brazil fans overate Neymar), and British media (not other team fans).

its all subjective though, so point well taken.

both Brazil and Belgium play France 10x they will lose 6 and tie 4. Being honest here... I picked them to win the wc and it was the easiest pick I can remember.

btw Kante is underrated ;)

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7 hours ago, Robchels said:

No?! :) 

Please use the ignore list so you don’t have to read them? 🙄 

Thought that all the hazard police would be gone by now. 

to the people actually discussing footy here, are you not missing something obvious? Hazard is well behind his peers in terms of shooting, especially from outside of the box. That has little to do with style or formation.

Hazard finishing is fantastic. Shooting outside the box is not really an essential skill to have. 

For me I don't understand with this hazard being overrated. Hazard is ridiculously good player to the point that our manager setup our team to compensate his defensively liability. 

The only problem with Hazard is his drive. I think he said it somewhere that he is not like some athlete like cr who is obsessed with being the best, I don't think hazard has that mentality. He is a more a layback person 

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2 hours ago, communicate said:

Hazard finishing is fantastic. Shooting outside the box is not really an essential skill to have. 

For me I don't understand with this hazard being overrated. Hazard is ridiculously good player to the point that our manager setup our team to compensate his defensively liability. 

The only problem with Hazard is his drive. I think he said it somewhere that he is not like some athlete like cr who is obsessed with being the best, I don't think hazard has that mentality. He is a more a layback person 

fair enough! different opinions right there. And we are discussing a very high tier here... 

I just think the "The only problem with Hazard is his drive. I think he said it somewhere that he is not like some athlete like cr who is obsessed with being the best, I don't think hazard has that mentality. He is a more a layback person " is kinda big deal. If Morata had more drive and a better mentality, he'd be a better striker - morata being the extreme case to make a point.

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11 hours ago, Robchels said:

I don’t. I mean don’t really care about him now that he’s not our player. I know too many footballers in person to be a fan of any of them. :) 

it is really interesting that folks really cannot accept that i think hazard is overrated and less effective than other great players within his tier. I’m far from alone btw.

I also find interesting that while many here agree that he lacks determination, they don’t link that with reaching one’s full potential. So, in a way I see him a bit like ronaldinho. While ronaldinho chose partying, hazard chose a laid back lifestyle with his family. Fair choices, but you can’t have it both ways. ;) They both lacked grit and athleticism.

as a Brazilian, I’ve seen many many amazing dribblers. It’s a very Brazilian thing. In my view dribbling is an important  tool, but creating opportunities, the final ball, is really a different skill set: more akin to passing and vision. I’ve seen amazing dribblers who had trouble with that last ball. Hazard is better than them, because he is more effective at that last pass, but he’s also not as effective as others (in his tier) in that.

I don't agree with everything said here but this is clearly a well thought out and entirely defensible point of view.

My own position agrees with the comment which started the current phase the discussion. That post basically claimed that Eden's move to Madrid will provide us all with more information to chew on. It won't be the best possible information however, because Real are rebuilding and that's an important part of the equation. Real have always had an interest in Eden but, while they were at their peak, they never quite wanted him enough to make a decisive move. Maybe that fact should come into the discussion too.

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