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DavidEU

10. Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

Hazard has shown his limits once again yesterday. Good first half. France fixed the problem. Then invisible in second half.

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6 minutes ago, BXL70 said:

Hazard has shown his limits once again yesterday. Good first half. France fixed the problem. Then invisible in second half.

He went more central with Fellaini pushed more to the left. He didn't have much operating space, bad move from Martinez.

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18 hours ago, Robguima said:

That’s why France won: you need to stop KDB to get anything out of a game against Belgium.

hazard is a fantastic player a dribbling machine, but below KDB in how much he can directly influence a game. Lukaku would be further below as a counter attacking  especialist and little else to his game.

mbappe seems to be jumping ahead of all the contenders for best player in my view.

KDB had one good half the whole WC. 

Hazard was the one carrying them the entire tournament. So much for that logic. 

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2 hours ago, Thor said:

KDB had one good half the whole WC. 

Hazard was the one carrying them the entire tournament. So much for that logic. 

entire tournament? You can't possibly be referring to games against Panama and Tunisia, right? :rolleyes: 

For Belgium, a contender, WC started against Japan (single elimination phase), specially in Belgium/England group which was as easy as it gets. But it was really Brazil, the first big challenge.

KDB, the MotM against Brazil, creates and scores goals. He directly influences the scoreline by doing that. Eden's contribution, with dribbling and movement is far more subtle. KDB was contained against France, so he could not set up or score (although he did produce quite a few good passes but lukaku was a bit off). Eden did have a very good game, but his contribution did not turn into goals, so Belgium lost the game.

That is, of course, my opinion and I'm sure Eden fans will disagree.

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42 minutes ago, Robguima said:

entire tournament? You can't possibly be referring to games against Panama and Tunisia, right? :rolleyes: 

For Belgium, a contender, WC started against Japan (single elimination phase), specially in Belgium/England group which was as easy as it gets. But it was really Brazil, the first big challenge.

KDB, the MotM against Brazil, creates and scores goals. He directly influences the scoreline by doing that. Eden's contribution, with dribbling and movement is far more subtle. KDB was contained against France, so he could not set up or score (although he did produce quite a few good passes but lukaku was a bit off). Eden did have a very good game, but his contribution did not turn into goals, so Belgium lost the game.

That is, of course, my opinion and I'm sure Eden fans will disagree.

Perfect explanation of Hazard's style of play.

How i wish Eden was just a little more direct, with all his talent, people like Neymar, suarez won't be anywhere close to Hazard in ratings. Chelsea will probably never have another talent as good as him. But he is what he is, a dribbler that gets his team playing well but hopes Lukaku/Kdb have a good game too so that they can convert the performance to goals.

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2 hours ago, Robguima said:

entire tournament? You can't possibly be referring to games against Panama and Tunisia, right? :rolleyes: 

For Belgium, a contender, WC started against Japan (single elimination phase), specially in Belgium/England group which was as easy as it gets. But it was really Brazil, the first big challenge.

KDB, the MotM against Brazil, creates and scores goals. He directly influences the scoreline by doing that. Eden's contribution, with dribbling and movement is far more subtle. KDB was contained against France, so he could not set up or score (although he did produce quite a few good passes but lukaku was a bit off). Eden did have a very good game, but his contribution did not turn into goals, so Belgium lost the game.

That is, of course, my opinion and I'm sure Eden fans will disagree.

What a load of rubbish. Not suprising it's coming from you. Hazard was the only attacking player that bothered to show up. 

He couldn't directly influence the game because he had to do KDB's job. Hazard had to drop deep to pick up the ball. 

Difficult to score when the moment you get the ball there's 11 french players between you and the goal and KDB-Lukaku too busy playing hide and seek.

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Hazard was very good yesterday. KDB and Lukaku were just so off the pace which made it look like a one man mission. Any person who watched that game properly would see that Hazard was one of the best players on the pitch. France only got the ball off him by fouling.

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1 hour ago, Belgiannutt said:

What a load of rubbish. Not suprising it's coming from you. Hazard was the only attacking player that bothered to show up. 

He couldn't directly influence the game because he had to do KDB's job. Hazard had to drop deep to pick up the ball. 

Difficult to score when the moment you get the ball there's 11 french players between you and the goal and KDB-Lukaku too busy playing hide and seek.

Yeah ditto. hah fanboys... :rolleyes: As much as it would hurt if Hazard left the club, the silver lining would be Hazard FC fans gone too.

He won't leave though, because RM will go for Mbappe, better, younger, and with an end product.

So how many chances did he create? How did he help his team with his many take ons?

just one of many... Not posting this as proof of anything, just that I'm not alone in my thinking.

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1 minute ago, Robguima said:

Yeah ditto. hah fanboys... :rolleyes: As much as it would hurt if Hazard left the club, the silver lining would be Hazard FC fans gone too.

He won't leave though, because RM will go for Mbappe, better, younger, and with an end product.

So how many chances did he create? How did he help his team with his many take ons?

 

just one of many... Not posting this as proof of anything, just that I'm not alone in my thinking.

Yeah yeah little robbie not really sure what you're trying to proof with tht twitter post. plenty of fucktards on twitter, congrats you're one of them :clown::yay:

So now suddenly Hazard doesn't create chances, like really ? Hahaha :D 

Again none of his attacking teammates showed up. France with 11 behind the ball and if Hazard wanted the ball he had to drop  deep. 

Difficult to create when there's 11 french players between you and the goal and the rest of your attacking  teammates are playing like shit. 

Like i said before though what's the point  discussing things with you. Can't seem to understand a thing past goals. So done with you and your'sh*t :rolleyes:

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4 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Yeah yeah little robbie not really sure what you're trying to proof with tht twitter post. plenty of fucktards on twitter, congrats you're one of them :clown::yay:

So now suddenly Hazard doesn't create chances, like really ? Hahaha :D 

Again none of his attacking teammates showed up. France with 11 behind the ball and if Hazard wanted the ball he had to drop  deep. 

Difficult to create when there's 11 french players between you and the goal and the rest of your attacking  teammates are playing like shit. 

Like i said before though what's the point  discussing things with you. Can't seem to understand a thing past goals. So done with you and your'sh*t :rolleyes:

If you call anyone who doesn't rate Hazard as highly as you do a fucktard, then I am definitely one, and very proud of it. ;)

BTW, I understand assists and passes too...:rolleyes:

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6 minutes ago, Robguima said:

If you call anyone who doesn't rate Hazard as highly as you do a fucktard, then I am definitely one, and very proud of it. ;)

Someone who can't appreciate a proper baller like Hazard, doesn't understand the game of football and isn't worth talking to, so bye.^_^

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7 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Someone who can't appreciate a proper baller like Hazard, doesn't understand the game of football and isn't worth talking to, so bye.^_^

Who says I don't appreciate him? It's just that you talk about him as the best player in the world, which he clearly isn't. His valuation in football does not match your, and some here, rating (of him). What's the difference between him and Messi? Make it simpler, Eden and Ronaldo? Eden is *better* on the ball, and yet Ronaldo is the better player... because this is a game about scoring goals.

Heh it doesn't work like that... You don't get to get the last word by decree. :) When you are done with someone, simply don't reply to her posts, and preferably add her to the ignore list. You seem to get annoyed by any criticism on Hazard, so please do use your ignore list - that's what it's for.

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1 minute ago, Robguima said:

Who says I don't appreciate him? It's just that you talk about him as the best player in the world, which he clearly isn't. His valuation in football does not match your, and some here, rating (of him). What's the difference between him and Messi? Make it simpler, Eden and Ronaldo? Eden is *better* on the ball, and yet Ronaldo is the better player... because this is a game about scoring goals.

Heh it doesn't work like that... You don't get to get the last word by decree. :) When you are done with someone, simply don't reply to her posts, and preferably add her to the ignore list. You seem to get annoyed by any criticism on Hazard, so please do use your ignore list - that's what it's for.

Nice straw man argument never said he was the best player in the world also even if i had still a big difference between that and labeling Hazard as "just a dribbler" and before you try and weasel your way out you didn't say it outright but you're clearly implying it.

I'm trying not to reply but you're making it hard because you keep posting such stupid things. If and when i put people on my ignore list i'll decide thanks for the suggestion though very thoughtfull. I try to give people plenty of chances  you are making it very hard though.

Quick question you think Ronaldo would have scored as many goals as he did if it weren't for him having a supporting cast with quality creators like Modric, Kroos, Marcelo overlapping, Benzema also supporting him ? (The answer is no by the way.)

To be clear not trying to say that Ronaldo isn't a superior scorer then Hazard. What i'm getting at is that creativity is just as important as scoring goals because it works hand in hand with each other. If you want to be a succesfull team you need a good balance between creative players and goalscorers. Hazard is a tremendous creator, labeling him as anything less and yeah i am going to respond to that. 

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Hazard is a top player but he definitely doesn't have good end product... It's clear.

If he had it he would be CR7 and Messi level.

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2 minutes ago, Tautvix said:

Hazard is a top player but he definitely doesn't have good end product... It's clear.

If he had it he would be CR7 and Messi level.

End product doesn't mean just goals and assists. Hazard creates a sh*t ton of chances. Not his fault they get missed all the time. 

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52 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Nice straw man argument never said he was the best player in the world also even if i had still a big difference between that and labeling Hazard as "just a dribbler" and before you try and weasel your way out you didn't say it outright but you're clearly implying it.

I'm trying not to reply but you're making it hard because you keep posting such stupid things. If and when i put people on my ignore list i'll decide thanks for the suggestion though very thoughtfull. I try to give people plenty of chances  you are making it very hard though.

Quick question you think Ronaldo would have scored as many goals as he did if it weren't for him having a supporting cast with quality creators like Modric, Kroos, Marcelo overlapping, Benzema also supporting him ? (The answer is no by the way.)

To be clear not trying to say that Ronaldo isn't a superior scorer then Hazard. What i'm getting at is that creativity is just as important as scoring goals because it works hand in hand with each other. If you want to be a succesfull team you need a good balance between creative players and goalscorers. Hazard is a tremendous creator, labeling him as anything less and yeah i am going to respond to that. 

Thanks for the chances you are giving me as well as the condescending tone - much appreciated.

Hazard is more than a dribbler, otherwise Douglas Costa would have the same valuation. And yet Hazard is the more important player, because he does, on many occasions, directly influence the game by scoring and assisting (D.Costa does not as much). My criticism of Hazard is not that he does not do those things (goals and assists), but that he does not do those things as often as other players who happen to have higher valuation in football (causation implied). So, what you call stupid arguments, I merely call reality based on the valuation of the players being discussed.

Hazard is low on assists... don't know where you get all these chances he creates from. Doesn't he have fewer assists than Willian in the league?

Yes. Ronaldo does not seem to have any problem scoring plenty of goals for Portugal, but it's really not about the number of goals. Portugal which I consider a mediocre team (far less quality than Hazard has around for both Belgium and Chelsea). You've just implied (strongly) that Ronaldo is not better than Hazard, which is exactly where we disagree (and I am far from a CR fan).

 

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47 minutes ago, Robguima said:

Thanks for the chances you are giving me as well as the condescending tone - much appreciated.

Hazard is more than a dribbler, otherwise Doublas Costa would have the same valuation that Hazard has. And yet Hazard is the more important player, because he does, on many occasions, directly influence the game by scoring and assisting (D.Costa does not as much). My criticism of Hazard is not that he does not do those things (goals and assists), but that he does not do those things as often as other players who happen to have higher valuation in football (causation implied). So, what you call stupid arguments, I merely call reality based on the valuation of the players being discussed.

Yes. Ronaldo does not seem to have any problem scoring plenty of goals for Portugal, but it's really not about the number of goals. Portugal which I consider a mediocre team (far less quality than Hazard has around for both Belgium and Chelsea). You've just implied (strongly) that Ronaldo is not better than Hazard, which is exactly where we disagree (and I am far from a CR fan).

 

You're welcome maybe next time don't reply to me with fanboy and Hazard FC crap and i might drop the condescension. 

 

You're moving the goalposts now aren't you. Now suddenly Hazard is more then a dribbler even though you posted 2 twitter idiots stating Hazard was just a dribbler. 

Hazard influences games even without scoring or assisting and that's what you fail to understand. If Hazard goes past 2 players and then draws 3 more towards him that's 5 players tht aren't able to mark anyone else.

Hazard opens up space for other players by going past players and attracting other players towards him.  

In the Belgium game none of our attacking players were playing at a good enough level to take advantage of the space but that's on them not Hazard.

 

Another straw man argument. How have i implied that ? I even specifically stated that Ronaldo is a superior goalscorer to Hazard. 

 I even clearly stated my point being that creativity and goalscoring go hand in hand and that one isn't superior to the other and that success means striking a balance between the 2. (+ ofcourse some form of defensive stability mixed in)

 

Edit: Also on where i put Hazard vs Ronaldo. It's dificult. Overall career Ronaldo wins no doubt. Currently it's difficult because Ronaldo last season showed 2 faces. First half of the season he was really awful. Poor performances and worse not even a lot of goals. Second half he was great primarily in the CL although he also raised his performances in the league. Coming up big. I'd put Ronaldo ahead of Hazard becaue of his CL performances last season but it's anyone's guess which Ronaldo is going to show up at Juventus next season. 

Also Ronaldo's season last season is also a good example why just focusing on goals and assists is a bad way to go. 

15 goals, 3 assists  in the CL and 26 goals and 5 assists in the league looks great but his poor form in the first half of the season was the biggest reason why Madrid were out of the title race by december. 

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Can't actually believe what I am seeing some people write on here. Hazard can improve, but we have a genuine top world class player on our team who has been a shining light in this World Cup. Like just truly baffled how after his performances in the last few games, people are actually trying to blame him. He was excellent against Brazil and was the only player who actually looked good against France. Hurts my eyes what I see people come out with sometimes, it genuinely does.

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32 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

You're welcome maybe next time don't reply to me with fanboy and Hazard FC crap and i might drop the condescension. 

 

You're moving the goalposts now aren't you. Now suddenly Hazard is more then a dribbler even though you posted 2 twitter idiots stating Hazard was just a dribbler. 

Hazard influences games even without scoring or assisting and that's what you fail to understand. If Hazard goes past 2 players and then draws 3 more towards him that's 5 players tht aren't able to mark anyone else.

Hazard opens up space for other players by going past players and attracting other players towards him.  

In the Belgium game none of our attacking players were playing at a good enough level to take advantage of the space but that's on them not Hazard.

 

Another straw man argument. How have i implied that ? I even specifically stated that Ronaldo is a superior goalscorer to Hazard. 

 I even clearly stated my point being that creativity and goalscoring go hand in hand and that one isn't superior to the other and that success means striking a balance between the 2. (+ ofcourse some form of defensive stability mixed in)

 

Edit: Also on where i put Hazard vs Ronaldo. It's dificult. Overall career Ronaldo wins no doubt. Currently it's difficult because Ronaldo last season showed 2 faces. First half of the season he was really awful. Poor performances and worse not even a lot of goals. Second half he was great primarily in the CL although he also raised his performances in the league. Coming up big. I'd put Ronaldo ahead of Hazard becaue of his CL performances last season but it's anyone's guess which Ronaldo is going to show up at Juventus next season. 

Also Ronaldo's season last season is also a good example why just focusing on goals and assists is a bad way to go. 

15 goals, 3 assists  in the CL and 26 goals and 5 assists in the league looks great but his poor form in the first half of the season was the biggest reason why Madrid were out of the title race by december. 

But you are (hazard fan) aren’t you? Hazard or Chelsea first dare I ask? 

either way, the dribbling argument is the craziest thing I’ve read around here tbh. Like your changing reality to make hazard look better... :). The definition of a fan.

And yet it does not happen does it? The players remain in position track back and mark zone.

did not see France lose their shape despise edens dribbling. Or the game for the matter. 

And yet one looks at the number of assists by hazard and they are very low. Especially in key games. 

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45 minutes ago, Robguima said:

But you are (hazard fan) aren’t you? Hazard or Chelsea first dare I ask? 

either way, the dribbling argument is the craziest thing I’ve read around here tbh. Like your changing reality to make hazard look better... :). The definition of a fan.

And yet it does not happen does it? The players remain in position track back and mark zone.

did not see France lose their shape despise edens dribbling. Or the game for the matter. 

And yet one looks at the number of assists by hazard and they are very low. Especially in key games. 

Followed Chelsea before Hazard was a Chelsea player, to be fair wasn't as active as i am now but that also has a lot to do with me only starting to really love watching football at a later age.

Changing reality lol. 

 

Wow really. Okay off the top of my head. Willian skied over after a pull back from Hazard against Atletico, Fabregas couldn't sort out his feet against Atletico, Fabregas missed after Hazard back heeled it against Arsenal while dropping 3 Arsenal players to the floor, 

Hazard put Willian 1 on 1 against the goalkeeper against West Ham, Giroud in one of his first starts missed after a short corner where Hazard found him inside the box with a free shot at goal, Giroud's shot saved on the line when Hazard passed it to Giroud, 

Morata missed several great opportunities with Hazard putting him in great positions, Hazard put Drinkwater in 1 on 1 with Mignolet against Liverpool. 

Going after Hazard's assist count is just weak as f*ck man. Not his fault playrs couldn't finish. I'm sure there's more but these are the ones i could think of right now. 

Hazard could have easily had 10 more assists added to his name if our team was a bit more clinical. 

 

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