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DavidEU

10. Eden Hazard

Started by DavidEU,

20 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Bit extreme. A stepping stone, he's been here for 6 years. Don't think you can say he used us as a stepping stone.

I don't really blame him for wanting out tbh. Our ambition isn't what it used too be in the beginning of the Roman Abramovich era.

We now seem content with a top four finish and looking at our spending compared to that of City and United winning another PL title  seems very unlikely.(the way the situation currently is).

I don't necessarily mean that literally but it has certainly felt that way. Besides, he's been talking about Madrid for years and has certainly been eyeing that move for some time now. It's not like it's came out of nowhere because of our lack of ambition or anything like that.

22 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Also Lampard went to City. Cech went to Arsenal. 2 club legends that had been here for 10 years+ and had an emotional connection with the fans yet both pretty much went "fuck the fans i'll choose what's best for me."

That's hardly the same, is it? We didn't want to give Lampard a new contract and he wanted to play more than he was (IIRC - whether he was right to join City via New York City FC is another story) while Cech wanted to leave because we chose Courtois over him as the no.1 Different from Hazard, who is the undisputed no.1 star and the main player here, no?

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1 minute ago, Jason said:

I don't necessarily mean that literally but it has certainly felt that way. Besides, he's been talking about Madrid for years and has certainly been eyeing that move for some time now. It's not like it's came out of nowhere because of our lack of ambition or anything like that.

That's hardly the same, is it? We didn't want to give Lampard a new contract and he wanted to play more than he was (IIRC - whether he was right to join City via New York City FC is another story) while Cech wanted to leave because we chose Courtois over him as the no.1 Different from Hazard, who is the undisputed no.1 star and the main player here, no?

Only this season has he actually been eying Real Madrid imo. The season before it was usually a neutral response to his future that caused people to be upset. 

Our lack of ambition has been noticeable for a while now. 

 

Just poving the point that players choose their own career moves with little regard for fans. 

Lampard could have gone too any club but chose City because they paid the most. He knew it would hurt Chelsea fans but he did it any way.

Same with Cech. He could have gone to any club yet he chose to go to Arsenal because he wanted to stay in London.

He knew it would hurt Chelsea fans but he did it anyway. Both chose their own self interest over the fans. 

Why wouldn't Hazard be allowed to do the same ? 

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5 minutes ago, Belgiannutt said:

Only this season has he actually been eying Real Madrid imo. The season before it was usually a neutral response to his future that caused people to be upset. 

Our lack of ambition has been noticeable for a while now.

Just poving the point that players choose their own career moves with little regard for fans. 

Lampard could have gone too any club but chose City because they paid the most. He knew it would hurt Chelsea fans but he did it any way.

Same with Cech. He could have gone to any club yet he chose to go to Arsenal because he wanted to stay in London.

He knew it would hurt Chelsea fans but he did it anyway. Both chose their own self interest over the fans. 

Why wouldn't Hazard be allowed to do the same ? 

Where did I say Hazard isn't allowed to leave? We all know that Hazard is probably gonna leave for Madrid at some point but I doubt many would appreciate being constantly 'reminded' about him with his constant talk about Real, Zidane etc. Just because the likes of Lampard, Cech did it, it doesn't mean Hazard have to do the same. But him always having one eye on Madrid and talking about them is something that won't endear him to the fans. And was there anyone really pissed with Cech that he chose to join Arsenal? Think we all respected his decision and could understand why after what he did for the club in 10+ years.

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2 hours ago, Jason said:

If/when he does leave, we'll no doubt miss his quality, talent and what he contributes to the team but I highly doubt we'll miss him on an emotional level. Though he's not the first one and won't be the last, every time he talks about being interested in Real Madrid, it's like spitting in the fans who have supported him all these years, even through during bad times. Sees us nothing more than a stepping stone to bigger things. That is why I said what I said before, IF he does end up staying, it'll feel nothing more like a marriage of convenience because the "girl of his dream" rejected him.

But on the flip side, player's like Ferreira genuinely love everything about Chelsea but we would have shafted him for a superior player in a heartbeat if offered.

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3 hours ago, Tomo said:

But on the flip side, player's like Ferreira genuinely love everything about Chelsea but we would have shafted him for a superior player in a heartbeat if offered.

And that's a guarantee because? We have players like now and had in the past and have hardly pushed them out, have we?

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Been thinking a bit recently about how Mo Salah has kind of put Hazard to shame in terms of scoring production from the wide attacking position. I think Hazard is the superior all around player but for some reason just doesn't have that same killer instinct that Mo has. I wonder why that is, though. Hazard gets into those same dangerous areas and loves to cut inside just like Salah does but doesn't score anywhere near as much.

Is this down solely to Liverpool's system? Is it Hazard's mentality? He should be scoring 25+ goals a season. I guess you can say that if he played in an all out attacking side like City or Liverpool he'd probably do so. But it's not like our tactics have really restrained him because he's been one of the best players in the league for all but one season since he's been here.

I don't know, I guess what I'm saying is it's kind of embarrassing (idk if that's the right word) that Salah has already scored nearly 30 goals in his first season in English football while it would take Eden 2 years to score that many. I know Hazards first instinct isn't to score like Salah's is but still. To have that many more goals this season is sad.

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2 hours ago, Pizy said:

Been thinking a bit recently about how Mo Salah has kind of put Hazard to shame in terms of scoring production from the wide attacking position. I think Hazard is the superior all around player but for some reason just doesn't have that same killer instinct that Mo has. I wonder why that is, though. Hazard gets into those same dangerous areas and loves to cut inside just like Salah does but doesn't score anywhere near as much.

Is this down solely to Liverpool's system? Is it Hazard's mentality? He should be scoring 25+ goals a season. I guess you can say that if he played in an all out attacking side like City or Liverpool he'd probably do so. But it's not like our tactics have really restrained him because he's been one of the best players in the league for all but one season since he's been here.

I don't know, I guess what I'm saying is it's kind of embarrassing (idk if that's the right word) that Salah has already scored nearly 30 goals in his first season in English football while it would take Eden 2 years to score that many. I know Hazards first instinct isn't to score like Salah's is but still. To have that many more goals this season is sad.

Different type of players, different roles in their team and one plays in a more attacking system then the other. 

Salah tries to get on the end of an attack by staying high and wide and then either cutting in with the ball or making a run in behind.

Hazard is different he drops deep a lot more. He gets involved a lot more in the actual building of an attack. Part of that is the type of player he is. Part of that is also the lack of creativity in our team.

"he should be scoring 25+ goals" Mate our strikers don't even get that many goals how the fuck you want Hazard to get to that amount here ?

"it's not like our tactics have really restrained him because he's been one of the best players in the league for all but one season since he's been here."

I disagree. How can it not be restraining him when we play with so many defensive players, so many average players in such a pragmatic system ? 

The fact that he's been one of the best players in the league playing in such conditions is testament to his quality imo.

 

It's embarrassing for the club imo. We could have built something great here with Hazard, adding several other quality players instead we decided to waste it and to simply get the bare minimum of quality necessary to challenge.

 

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Comparing Hazard / Salah's like comparing Luis Figo / Robben, or Drogba / Harry Kane. Entirely different roles. Pointless.

 

Hazard/Figo/Drogba would perhaps get less goals - but would you rather line up with Salah/Robben/Kane? Probably not. 
It shouldn't need said, but then again apparently it does - goals aren't everything. You need a lot of goals, sure. But as an example - Van Persie scoring 30 goals didn't mean he was better than a Drogba who scored 15 - especially for our team.

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I just think Salah and Klopp are match made in heaven. Klopp likes r'n'r football, and Salah is so damn aggressive in pressing and attacking spaces that it looks insanely beautiful. Salah is playing on the best level that he could ever possibly reach - Hazard is definitely not, he would need more technically gifted players and better striker(s) around him to achieve that.

Also, consider that Liverpool plays without classic number 9. Firmino is like another creator, good link-up player that can occasionally score, but his main strengths are not scoring. It's way easier to play alongside player like that, he will always feed you with good balls and link-ups. Salah is their main man upfront, same as CR is for Real. Firmino is something like Benzema - player from shadow that keeps their attack ticking. Hazard is always "behind" Morata/Costa, who are main targets for balls, and Hazard is mainly here to build up attacks for striker, not to finish the attacks.

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Hazard doesnt score lots of goals. Thats not his style, but i think for the role he has, (a creative player) he doesnt have enough assists imo. We can say we play defensive football, but fabregas once had 20 assists in the league alone with our defensive football (thats the characteristic of a real creative player) even pedro had similar assists with hazard last season despite playing less.

I think hazard should be scoring more if his below 11 assists per season in all competitions doesnt improve. But a lot of people are satisfied with just his dribbling as his contribution. Thats okay too, because it means he'll stay with us for more years, Madrid wont bring out 150mil for a player that cant guarantee more goals/assists than James Rodriguez that they sold away.

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54 minutes ago, kellzfresh said:

Hazard doesnt score lots of goals. Thats not his style, but i think for the role he has, (a creative player) he doesnt have enough assists imo. We can say we play defensive football, but fabregas once had 20 assists in the league alone with our defensive football (thats the characteristic of a real creative player) even pedro had similar assists with hazard last season despite playing less.

I think hazard should be scoring more if his below 11 assists per season in all competitions doesnt improve. But a lot of people are satisfied with just his dribbling as his contribution. Thats okay too, because it means he'll stay with us for more years, Madrid wont bring out 150mil for a player that cant guarantee more goals/assists than James Rodriguez that they sold away.

He may not register a great many assists but he creates openings a plenty.

 

28053153_1542640025813203_952125864_n.jpg

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36 minutes ago, Mufassir08 said:

He may not register a great many assists but he creates openings a plenty.

 

28053153_1542640025813203_952125864_n.jpg

The reason why those numerous chances created are not translating into assists is because those chances created by hazard are not enough clear cut chances.  Majority of what he creates is when he dribbles and cuts inside and passes to kante/fabregas to shoot from distance. Fabregas and KDB put people through on goal, one on one with the keeper, I dont see hazard do that enough. Infact this season Azpi from defence has created very clear cut chances for morata which everyone can remember off the top of their head. 

Hazard is the best dribbler in the world (Yes above messi and Neymar) but he is still below worldclass in creating clear chances IMO. Clear chances is the type morata missed against arsenal, how many like that does hazard create? Not enough imo to be compared to the likes of (Messi, KDB, Silva, Ozil, Fabregas, James, and Payet)

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4 hours ago, Leif said:

Comparing Hazard / Salah's like comparing Luis Figo / Robben, or Drogba / Harry Kane. Entirely different roles. Pointless.

  Hide contents

Hazard/Figo/Drogba would perhaps get less goals - but would you rather line up with Salah/Robben/Kane? Probably not. 
It shouldn't need said, but then again apparently it does - goals aren't everything. You need a lot of goals, sure. But as an example - Van Persie scoring 30 goals didn't mean he was better than a Drogba who scored 15 - especially for our team.

Darren Bent has more goals in the PL than Dennis Bergkamp despite playing 100 games less.

If that doesn't stop people comparing players purely on goal stats, nothing will!!

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2 hours ago, kellzfresh said:

The reason why those numerous chances created are not translating into assists is because those chances created by hazard are not enough clear cut chances.  Majority of what he creates is when he dribbles and cuts inside and passes to kante/fabregas to shoot from distance. Fabregas and KDB put people through on goal, one on one with the keeper, I dont see hazard do that enough. Infact this season Azpi from defence has created very clear cut chances for morata which everyone can remember off the top of their head. 

Hazard is the best dribbler in the world (Yes above messi and Neymar) but he is still below worldclass in creating clear chances IMO. Clear chances is the type morata missed against arsenal, how many like that does hazard create? Not enough imo to be compared to the likes of (Messi, KDB, Silva, Ozil, Fabregas, James, and Payet)

I'd argue a fair few of his cutbacks are more like the ones Willian skied over from 7 yards against Roma rather than the ones where it will take an absolute screamer to score.

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7 hours ago, Pizy said:

Been thinking a bit recently about how Mo Salah has kind of put Hazard to shame in terms of scoring production from the wide attacking position. I think Hazard is the superior all around player but for some reason just doesn't have that same killer instinct that Mo has. I wonder why that is, though. Hazard gets into those same dangerous areas and loves to cut inside just like Salah does but doesn't score anywhere near as much.

Is this down solely to Liverpool's system? Is it Hazard's mentality? He should be scoring 25+ goals a season. I guess you can say that if he played in an all out attacking side like City or Liverpool he'd probably do so. But it's not like our tactics have really restrained him because he's been one of the best players in the league for all but one season since he's been here.

I don't know, I guess what I'm saying is it's kind of embarrassing (idk if that's the right word) that Salah has already scored nearly 30 goals in his first season in English football while it would take Eden 2 years to score that many. I know Hazards first instinct isn't to score like Salah's is but still. To have that many more goals this season is sad.

I think the alarming is, his lack of goal scoring instinct which was present when we originally signed him. He scored 22 goals (involved in 44 in 49 games) the season prior to joining us but hasn't really gotten close to that alongside superior players.

Talk of him being more of a provider needs to die down as well if you look at his stats alone. No doubt he should be more productive with the ability he possesses..

Edited by LAM09

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3 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

I think the alarming is, his lack of goal scoring instinct which was present when we originally signed him. He scored 22 goals (involved in 44 in 49 games) the season prior to joining us but hasn't really gotten close to that alongside superior players.

Talk of him being more of a provider needs to die down as well if you look at his stats alone. No doubt he should be more productive with the ability he possesses..

It seems he just doesn't have that burning desire to score like Salah does. With Hazard's ability to easily run past people and get shots away he should be up there in goals but is just not selfish enough I guess. Alexis is the same way as Salah. When he gets the ball anywhere near the opposition box his first thought is to aggressively look to score. Eden's isn't.

 

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1 minute ago, Pizy said:

It seems he just doesn't have that burning desire to score like Salah does. With Hazard's ability to easily run past people and get shots away he should be up there in goals but is just not selfish enough I guess. Alexis is the same way as Salah. When he gets the ball anywhere near the opposition box his first thought is to aggressively look to score. Eden's isn't.

 

Hazard doesn't get into the tough areas to score goals. When he is pedestrian, he often on the periphery of the game, not involved in the areas where he can hurt teams

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8 minutes ago, Pizy said:

It seems he just doesn't have that burning desire to score like Salah does. With Hazard's ability to easily run past people and get shots away he should be up there in goals but is just not selfish enough I guess. Alexis is the same way as Salah. When he gets the ball anywhere near the opposition box his first thought is to aggressively look to score. Eden's isn't.

It's obviously something he's had in the past but doesn't show it enough anymore. I also think he's more of a showman at times, which obviously has negative effect on his numbers.

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Hazard's lack of goals may be something that will dissuade Real Madrid from going after him, especially if Zidane gets sacked some time soon. If Hazard is seen as someone to replace Ronaldo or be one of their main attacking players, he'll be expected to score plenty of goals on a regular basis but I'm not sure if he has that in him at all, even in a more attacking side than us. Perez and Real may prefer to go after someone like Neymar, who not only can score lots of goals but also has that 'brand' and big personality to lead a big club like Real.

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