Grant Equals Mourinho Record

[pluto 0]

You have all these headlines in the paper like "Avram as good as Jose" but that really isnt the case.

I can see from games Avram Grant is a poor tactician and he doesnt look as if he can change matches very well... I mean take reading & newcastle at home for instance, both games we won but my god... Reading 2nd half we just invited them to score against us and it was the same vs newcastle, they did score and we got lucky with Kalou's goal. Everton at home is a prime example of probably what would have happened in those games and shows we cant keep using this game plan with Avram uses more or less every home game, score then lock up. At least Jose knew how to hold onto a lead properly... And yes, I know we got the results IN THE END but we seriously need to play better than that.

I think Grant tactically plays it safe, he makes subs at the time you would expect subs to be made and often delays them far longer than we were used to under Jose who would often make subs very early on and often not like for like, they could also be multiple changes.

I'm not saying this makes Grant a bad tactician just a very normal one. He seems fairly solid and predictable but with the team he has at his disposal and against most teams this really does not matter much because you can beat these teams being with solid tactical thinking.

It's when you get to play against the likes of a Man Utd, Arsenal, Milan etc that you need to think a bit more "outside the box" on occasion.

And for me I don't think Grant has that capacity or should I say he has not shown that to me as yet.

Also I feel he relies very much on his backroom staff - far more than Mourinho ever did. He does this because he actually needs to because bottom line he is a coach plucked out of obscurity with little known rep for attacking football in Israel or making sparkling subs.

For that he needs people with experience around him to help make those decisions and I firmly believe this is where Ten Cate comes in and Clarke with his long experience of working under Mourinho.

So I would not say Grant is a poor tactician he simply is an average one who has yet to be proved at the top level.

Time will tell if he is a fast learner or if he just has great back up staff or a combination of both.

Nice to see this thread is back on track by the way!

Edited February 9, 2008 by pluto

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I think its been said before, but the only difference between Grant and Mourinho is mentality. Whereas José would shut up shop, Grant tries to play more expansively and go for a greater lead. I think this is what RA wants - not necessarilly Arsenal- or Barcelona-style football, but seeing games won by more than the odd goal. Which is happening not that often.

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

I think its been said before, but the only difference between Grant and Mourinho is mentality. Whereas José would shut up shop, Grant tries to play more expansively and go for a greater lead.

Maybe he does ,but I honestly believe hes clueless as how to achieve his puppetmasters wish.

[misschief 24]

I think its been said before, but the only difference between Grant and Mourinho is mentality. Whereas José would shut up shop, Grant tries to play more expansively and go for a greater lead. I think this is what RA wants - not necessarilly Arsenal- or Barcelona-style football, but seeing games won by more than the odd goal. Which is happening not that often.

There's much more than just mentality between them, although thats probably the biggest difference. Grant might try for a more expansive game, sexier football, blah, blah, blah but he certainly dont achieve that aim. He lacks the tactical know-how to have an impact, his substitutions are borne out of desperation and the need to show he's doing something, not because he's read the game and actually knows what'll work.

As for other differences - Grant obviously lacks charisma, personality, social skills, wit, looks, etc, etc, the list is pretty endless.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

I just wonder if Mourinho gets the Barca job, will RA go for Rijkaard? Is Grant keeping the manager's chair warm for him - we have Ten Cate prized from Ajax and he would be all for a reunion with Rijkaard.

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

I just wonder if Mourinho gets the Barca job, will RA go for Rijkaard? Is Grant keeping the manager's chair warm for him - we have Ten Cate prized from Ajax and he would be all for a reunion with Rijkaard.

Not yet. If we lose to the Yids at Wembley, and silverware is thin on the ground, come May, the knives will be out and sharpened for Romans puppet.

JT was guest in the studio yesterday and said that when Grant took over he told the players that nothing will change from what they were doing under Mourinho, formation will stay the same. That shows that Grant does not have the knowledge and experience to manage properly at the top level and also confirms that it is in fact Steve Clarke doing the lions share of the work. We were pretty poor yesterday and Grant didn't have the ability to change it. I still believe it is the players have kept us in the hunt, not anything Grant has done.

Grant is obviously out of his depth. This is even apparrent from his body language and befuddled touchline expression. He doesn't react quick enough to the changing situation in a match. But he is obviously content to get his £4.5 million a year.

Ten Cate and Clarke take training, apparently Avram only picks the team. -and maybe that is passed down from Roman ?

[EskWeston 696]

JT was guest in the studio yesterday and said that when Grant took over he told the players that nothing will change from what they were doing under Mourinho, formation will stay the same. That shows that Grant does not have the knowledge and experience to manage properly at the top level and also confirms that it is in fact Steve Clarke doing the lions share of the work. We were pretty poor yesterday and Grant didn't have the ability to change it. I still believe it is the players have kept us in the hunt, not anything Grant has done.

I wouldn't say that. What manager in their right mind would come into a team like ours with the players we have in the middle of the season and try and changes things around too much, it is suicide and would have left us struggling to compete in anything.

Come the start of next season there will more than likely be a lot more changes, the fact is we don't have the players for a fast attacking style of football.

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

I wouldn't say that. What manager in their right mind would come into a team like ours with the players we have in the middle of the season and try and changes things around too much, it is suicide and would have left us struggling to compete in anything.

Come the start of next season there will more than likely be a lot more changes, the fact is we don't have the players for a fast attacking style of football.

Agree, wholesale changes would have been disastrous , unless executed by a competent coach. The substitutions and tactical changes are akin to a sedated sloth. He has brought absolutely nothing so far, and it is early days I know, but I'm sorry, it's a waste of a key position of Chelsea Football club to have practically no one there.

He's inherited a Rolls Royce with a chauffeur and valet, yet doesn't get it serviced at all. It drives fine for a while. Eventually it will stall.

[EskWeston 696]

Agree, wholesale changes would have been disastrous , unless executed by a competent coach. The substitutions and tactical changes are akin to a sedated sloth. He has brought absolutely nothing so far, and it is early days I know, but I'm sorry, it's a waste of a key position of Chelsea Football club to have practically no one there.

He's inherited a Rolls Royce with a chauffeur and valet, yet doesn't get it serviced at all. It drives fine for a while. Eventually it will stall.

I just can't see how any other manager could have done any better since Jose left. With injuries and the ACN added to the turmoil of losing our most successful manger we have gone on to be challenging for all 4 cups still in February..........

Until things start going tits up we have nothing to complain about.

I can understand people are not happy about not beating the Scousers which is why there has been an upsurge in the posts on the anti-grant threads, but we didn't lose and games against the other big 3 clubs can go either way all the time and seasons are not won on those games.

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

I just can't see how any other manager could have done any better since Jose left. With injuries and the ACN added to the turmoil of losing our most successful manger we have gone on to be challenging for all 4 cups still in February..........

Until things start going tits up we have nothing to complain about.

I can understand people are not happy about not beating the Scousers which is why there has been an upsurge in the posts on the anti-grant threads, but we didn't lose and games against the other big 3 clubs can go either way all the time and seasons are not won on those games.

Thats true and there would be different conversations flying about today had Joe Cole had a deserved penalty converted. I would rather spot the cracks being papered over than just fall into the trap of accepting someone who's clearly out of his depth, before it's too late.

Maybe we dont need a competent person at the helm, and surrounding adequate staff is enough.

And another thing whilst i'm in Victor Meldrew mode -the atmosphere was shit yesterday from both sets.

still, WIN OR LOSE, UP THE FUCKING BLUES, I SAY.

[EskWeston 696]

Thats true and there would be different conversations flying about today had Joe Cole had a deserved penalty converted. I would rather spot the cracks being papered over than just fall into the trap of accepting someone who's clearly out of his depth, before it's too late.

Maybe we dont need a competent person at the helm, and surrounding adequate staff is enough.

And another thing whilst i'm in Victor Meldrew mode -the atmosphere was shit yesterday from both sets.

still, WIN OR LOSE, UP THE FUCKING BLUES, I SAY.

Everything about that game yesterday was dour, Liverpools game plan was to completely stifle the game and pump long balls up to the freak! we had no invention in our team to open the game up and it turned into a bore-fest!

Time will tell in these circumstances i feel. If the man isn't good enough to manage the team, sooner or later it will be shown up! If it isn't shown up and we keep on winning then great. Happy Days either way

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

Everything about that game yesterday was dour, Liverpools game plan was to completely stifle the game and pump long balls up to the freak! we had no invention in our team to open the game up and it turned into a bore-fest!

Time will tell in these circumstances i feel. If the man isn't good enough to manage the team, sooner or later it will be shown up! If it isn't shown up and we keep on winning then great. Happy Days either way

I thought the scousers were probably more inventive than us at times, and our passing was schoolboyish. If/when results go Liverpoolesque, a new 'face' will doubtless be brought in.

But if the puppet is going to bring us a blip, I'd rather the puppets strings were cut beforehand.

[EskWeston 696]

I thought the scousers were probably more inventive than us at times, and our passing was schoolboyish. If/when results go Liverpoolesque, a new 'face' will doubtless be brought in.

But if the puppet is going to bring us a blip, I'd rather the puppets strings were cut beforehand.

Lol, bit hard to call though isn't it. 9 straight wins and 2 draws isn't bad, plus a cup final in 2 weeks time. I wouldn't say Liverpool was inventive, they had 2 outlets long ball to Crouch and the ball to Babel who had the beating of Belletti...

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

Lol, bit hard to call though isn't it. 9 straight wins and 2 draws isn't bad, plus a cup final in 2 weeks time. I wouldn't say Liverpool was inventive, they had 2 outlets long ball to Crouch and the ball to Babel who had the beating of Belletti...

Kuyt going wide caused us problems when Ashley Cole was otherwise engaged.

Don't think its harsh. My stance is that the results are despite the Puppet, and his position could be fulfilled by someone who could offer a contribution to Chelsea football Club for a more than adequate salary.

But like I say maybe thats not neccesary. Top clubs now have enough staff, and Grant fulfils the role of No threat to the Media, and Abramovichs confidant and conduit to team selection.

[Hingis 0]

There's much more than just mentality between them, although thats probably the biggest difference. Grant might try for a more expansive game, sexier football, blah, blah, blah but he certainly dont achieve that aim. He lacks the tactical know-how to have an impact, his substitutions are borne out of desperation and the need to show he's doing something, not because he's read the game and actually knows what'll work.

As for other differences - Grant obviously lacks charisma, personality, social skills, wit, looks, etc, etc, the list is pretty endless.

:thumbsup:

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Not yet. If we lose to the Yids at Wembley, and silverware is thin on the ground, come May, the knives will be out and sharpened for Romans puppet.

JT was guest in the studio yesterday and said that when Grant took over he told the players that nothing will change from what they were doing under Mourinho, formation will stay the same. That shows that Grant does not have the knowledge and experience to manage properly at the top level and also confirms that it is in fact Steve Clarke doing the lions share of the work. We were pretty poor yesterday and Grant didn't have the ability to change it. I still believe it is the players have kept us in the hunt, not anything Grant has done.

I don't think that is strictly true. Whilst it may be, Grant does have enough brains to realise what Mourinho did worked, and he didn't want to make drastic changes to the squad and/or the way we play in mid-season.

[Fulham Broadway 16,393]

I don't think that is strictly true. Whilst it may be, Grant does have enough brains to realise what Mourinho did worked, and he didn't want to make drastic changes to the squad and/or the way we play in mid-season.

Grant isn't stupid. He knows how to weedle his way into £100 000 a week job for a start.

He has no acute football brain this is apparent. Fine, leave things as they are. why not ? Why fix it if it aint broke. That any manager would have done. I'm not advocating Mourinhos return. Hes gone. What he had though was a game strategy. He had a plan B, C, D, and E. This is how he was successful. Get a lead, and keep it. No way would have Villa drew 4-4 under his stewardship. Even Ranieri had plans and imagination. I see none of this during any grant game. This is where crucial decisions cannot be made by his underlings Ten Cate and Clarke.

[pluto 0]

Grant isn't stupid. He knows how to weedle his way into £100 000 a week job for a start.

He has no acute football brain this is apparent. Fine, leave things as they are. why not ? Why fix it if it aint broke. That any manager would have done. I'm not advocating Mourinhos return. Hes gone. What he had though was a game strategy. He had a plan B, C, D, and E. This is how he was successful. Get a lead, and keep it. No way would have Villa drew 4-4 under his stewardship. Even Ranieri had plans and imagination. I see none of this during any grant game. This is where crucial decisions cannot be made by his underlings Ten Cate and Clarke.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with your comment "if it aint broke don't fix it".

Clearly Grant is smart enough to see that and for this season it appears he is going to change little and just carry on as is. The players have as good as confirmed this and that is no surprise you only need to look at the results and how the team play with your own eyes to see that.

Looks like he might get more adventurous next season! And he will have to in order to keep Roman happy.

Trouble is he lacks the tactical nous to make those changes that were so much a part of Mourinho's make up, you can copy the training, the team talks through say Cate or Clarke, the same system, style - you can copy all that but the one thing you cannot know how to replicate is how to change a game.

You either have it or you don't or you have to try and learn how to get better at it fast.

I think Grant is distinctly average in this area and that is where he falls on his face but lets just hope he learns shall we?

He's the manager and he needs support from the fans so whether we like him or respect him or not we have to support him and hope he can make this work.