Grant Equals Mourinho Record

[warnie_666 1,081]

He said he was a Yid in a previous post so its a bit confusing. Unless that was his attempt at wit, which obviously worked about as well as Avram's sex appeal.

Thats what I am asking you. Cant Yids {jews} be fans of CFC?....Its not a world wide rule that all Yids on the face of earth have to be Tottenham fans..you see.

[pluto 0]

His tactics are very defensive.

Eg: We needed to win the game yesterday and we played with a Holding Midfielder for the 90 mins. Instead of attacking more.

I agree in that I think he is generally defensive and cautious too, despite the fact that Grant said especially early on in his tenure that there would be no more playing for a draw malarky and Chelsea were not going to be afraid to lose anymore and would go all out for a win (as if we've always been terrified of winning which is bull).

Well I'm sorry but it's pretty clear that this is all talk because his substitutions I would not suggest are overtly attacking and you can usually predict when they will be made and who will come off and who will come on.

Rarely have I been surprised by any move he's made but then against most of the opposition we have played that really has been enough to get the result but it's when that's not enough that you need him to have some nous.

Not all Mourinho's subs were perfect by any means, no manager can be 100% right. However, overall he got them pretty much spot on and they were often quite risky and never tardy.

Ironic that for a man accused of playing boring football he could never be accused of being dull and slowfooted when trying to change a game.

[misschief 24]

Thats what I am asking you. Cant Yids {jews} be fans of CFC?....Its not a world wide rule that all Yids on the face of earth have to be Tottenham fans..you see.

He made it sound like he was a Spurs fan, get me now or need a diagram to go with my posts?

[pluto 0]

Agree with most of that, but I dont see anything in him to support. Maybe he will pass the coaching exam. Brilliant.

I've tried to leave personal opinion out of it and just look at his ability as a manager. he may well prove me wrong and start making astute tactical changes that lead us to win the league..but I dont think he has the bottle to risk being ridiculed, nor the intelligence to have contingencies for events as the game progresses. I would worry if we were to play AC Milan or Barca in the next week or two.

Whether he is ousted in the Summer is up for debate, and will depend on what silverware is accrued., but I find it absolutely incredible he was given a four year contract.

I find it a little odd too that they were so eager to give him a four year contract but that's Roman world for you!

After watching Grant and how he operates on and off the pitch and from what I've read about his life in the Israeli league what we are seeing now is pretty much what you would expect. He was renowed for his dull, safety first, try to get a win and if not then don't lose no matter what style of football.

Hence many Israeli journalists stunned surprise when he was put forward as the attacking balm to Mourinho's pragmatist age.

Grant is no risk taker that much is certain, he is no risk taker because (a) it is not in his nature and never has been no matter what he might spout forth to you, me and Roman (b)because he is simply scared of losing, losing the fans respect (which he has never really had yet if full measure), losing any support he had from the press sick of the Mourinho ego trip as certain journos saw it and © worried about losing his job if the results get bad - the dream job he has assiduously worked his way towards getting by arse licking anyone who had power and influence to get him this far.

The one thing I do disagree with you on is the intelligence aspect. Grant is intelligent, he was intelligent enough to spot that Roman had a hankering for a change of coach and insert himself into his circle in time and convince him that he was the man - he was intelligent enough to not change anything at the club when he came on board - again smart and he was intelligent to not allow his ego to get in the way and agree to Ten Cate coming on board and Clarke staying (a Mourinho cohort lest we forget) because he probably knew deep down he needed the support.

Those are not actions of a stupid guy, but unfortunately there is that kind of intelligence and then there is the kind of intelligence which allows you to read a game in an instant, smell the mood of the crowd, sense the players mood at any one moment and the opposition's to boot and make your move at key moments with key players, willing to turn a formation around in a moment by not necessarily replacing like with like. It's this kind of intelligence that I don't think Grant has in any great abundance. I say "think" because I need to see him operate a few more times against a really big club not an Olympiakos or a Liverpool in bad form but a Man Utd, Arsenal, Barca, Milan - that kind of team.

He may surprise me and prove that he has climbed a steep learning curve and what Mourinho had - that tactical nous and intelligence - is something Grant can acquire but I have my doubts.

Beating Wigan, Derby, Sunderland, QPR and the like or crushing Man City or even beating a soon to implode Valencia have not convinced me that he's got what it takes there.

Hope he proves me wrong, despite the fact I can't say I've warmed to the guy one bit.

I think we will still be stuck with him into next season no matter what happens this - Roman has put his faith in this guy and there is no way he wants to look a mug for all to see. So Grant had better get things right at the sharp end of the season because the prospects for next season if he stays (but wins no silverware) seem very uncertain to me.

Edited February 12, 2008 by pluto

[Cracker 0]

Just a few things..

First of all I think that everyone-(pro-grant as a manager or not) would agree that it would have been much better & also would have gone down better with the fans if he had at least a bit more experience in managerial positions at a few other European clubs prior to becoming the Chelsea manager,

But saying that I want to make a few points..

1) first of all Israeli football has made quite a few noticeable steps forward in the last few years, as everyone have seen in the last EURO-2008 campaign & they got quite good results against very tough oppositions & situations (Just like in the game against Russia when the Russians thought they needed a win at all cost to qualify....great Shame it didn't prove to be true in the end ...).

& these last campaigns came after two relatively very successful campaigns that Grant was in charge of the national team..

& lets not forget that at the time he took over the job from the Danish manager Richard Møller Nielsen(winner of the EURO-1992) that didn't manage to succeed very well with the Israeli side at his time there & they looked most of the time quite poor on the pitch to..)

2) maybe many here understandably would much prefer to forget this fact but, it

was the Israeli side-Hapoel Tel-aviv that knocked Chelsea-fc out of the Uefa Cup only a few years ago, just to carry on to reach the 1/4 finals of the competition (if I remember right..), + a few other teams that have performed in at least quite a respectable way in the various European competitions, like for example(a win of Macabbi-Haifa on Manutd 3-0 at one stage in the Champions league after beating Olympiakos ,Parma & Milan once to (hopefully I remembered those ones to right sorry if not...),

3) Just another point.. Its true of course that Ten Cate Has had more experience in various European Clubs ext'.. But still many of those positions were as an assistant-(& probably a very successful one) & the biggest club he actually manged himself was Ajax, that is of course I nice respectable European club, but has not been able to perform very well (to say the least) together with other Dutch teams on the International stage now for years..

I'm not saying of course that the Israeli football is near the level of the Dutch Football

but on the other hand Dutch football aint at the same level as English/Spanish/Italian ext.. Football either..

Just posting here the table & results of the 2006 World cup qualifying results-group4

while Grant was the Israel manager, It doesn't seem to me like a record of someone that does not have any International football experience & that cant be at least considered with same (if not more) experience than many of the other(not Chelsea) premiership teams managers..

1) France-20

2) Switzerland-18

3) Israel-18

4) Republic of Ireland-17

5) Cyprus-4

6) Faroe Islands-1

France 0 – 0 Israel , Israel 2 – 1 Cyprus , Israel 2 – 2 Switzerland ,

Cyprus 1 – 2 Israel , Israel 1 – 1 Republic of Ireland , Israel 1 – 1 France ,

Republic of Ireland 2 – 2 Israel , Switzerland 1 – 1 Israel , Faroe Islands 0 – 2 Israel ,

Israel 2 – 1 Faroe Islands .

Edited February 13, 2008 by Cracker

[Aesthetic Relic 301]

Yeah, but Grunt managed in Israel about 400 BC.......long before Israel started making progress in world football......

Grunt is hardley the man who took Israel in the right direction with his tactical knowledge and management skills.

On a level playing field he would be as qualified as the Andorran national manager.

Then again, he probably is qualified already

[Elliott 7]

Heh Tri-Blue, you are talking out your backside in the face of Cracker's post there, sorry. 2006 not 400 BC Come on, that's really not long ago. Israel DID do well in that group, no doubt.

Doesn't change the fact Grant doesn't exactly fill you with confidence day to day, and we always deserved a better manager even if you think Grant's record is decent.

[Cracker 0]

Yeah, but Grunt managed in Israel about 400 BC.......long before Israel started making progress in world football......

Grunt is hardley the man who took Israel in the right direction with his tactical knowledge and management skills.

On a level playing field he would be as qualified as the Andorran national manager.

Then again, he probably is qualified already

Grant was the manager of Israel in the 2006 Israel campaign (see results above..)

hmmmm...well yes it wasn't yesterday... but still I think that going back to 400bc is maybe just a little bit over stretched..

[Aesthetic Relic 301]

Heh Tri-Blue, you are talking out your backside in the face of Cracker's post there, sorry. 2006 not 400 BC Come on, that's really not long ago. Israel DID do well in that group, no doubt.

Doesn't change the fact Grant doesn't exactly fill you with confidence day to day, and we always deserved a better manager even if you think Grant's record is decent.

He's still shit

[warnie_666 1,081]

GRANT IS THE BEST MANAGER IN THE WORLD!!!!!

[warnie_666 1,081]

On a serious Note...I really dont care who manages as long as we win the League or the Champions League. But occasions like the Liverpool match or the Man utd match made me litrally pull my hair out of frustration watching Grant's tactics. Cmmon, It looked like Grant was playing for a draw.

[Cracker 0]

& if we were already talking about Israeli & dutch football here's an interesting result from

the 2004 Champions leauge..Maccabi Tel Aviv 2-1 Ajax

while it was not more nor less..Ronald Koeman himself that was the

manager of Ajax at the time..

I think if I'm not mistaken that on the 2-leg Ajax beat maccabi 3-0,

anyway as I said before there is still NO place for serious comparison between Dutch & Israeli football..but they are not hardly as far from each other as in the far past or as some people would maybe imagine..

[Cracker 0]

On a serious Note...I really dont care who manages as long as we win the League or the Champions League. But occasions like the Liverpool match or the Man utd match made me litrally pull my hair out of frustration watching Grant's tactics. Cmmon, It looked like Grant was playing for a draw.

First of all I agree with you entirely-"I really don't care who manages as long as we win the League or the Champions League."

but I don't think he played for a draw, I really don't think he has reached any kind of stable position yet in the team or as a top premiership club coach, that he could start allowing himself to play such doggy ugly "games" such as losing crucial title points on purpose ext..& think he would still manage to get away with it somehow,

He played to win, he needs to win!..no one is going to forgive him yet like at other teams, as for example they have forgiven Wenger & Ferguson several times for not performing well in previous seasons & not earning any silverware..

he's still very far from being in such a comfortable position like those two & others..

from what I saw yesterday Liverpool were one of the best sides we've played for some time

they had their strongest players on the pitch & with a good bench available to..

& as I have said previously. they are a frustrated hungry team that need positive results at any cost..

& now lets see who we had.. Lampard wasn't really there, Malouda went lost to & Swp wasn't at his best either..so who's left to "throw" forward when nor Drogba or Sheva are around ?what other options did Grant have?..personaly I cant think of many more in this case,..

can you?.. what?..

Edited February 13, 2008 by Cracker

[Cracker 0]

& Just one more thing...that for some reason seems to have raised quite a bit of interest & controversy here in the forum lately,..

I don't know or remember who it was here that "decided" for some obscure reason that I'm a Spurs fan & started also to spread the ridiculous rumor around..

But the truth is that it didn't really bother me what he or others said at the time..so I couldn't be bothered to respond & deny their stupid claims either..

& the truth of the matter & the funny thing about the whole thing is..that I don't think I know the name of even one of spurs players, except that Berbatov or something..(& I know him only because there were talks of him moving to Chelsea last month..) & I know also that they had for a few seasons an Egyptian player named Mido that was very good at the time, but I think they got rid of him after some time for some reason to,..

Anyway I thought it was clear enough there when I wrote that I cant wait for Chelsea to beat spurs at least 6-0 in the CC final, but maybe still saying that, wasn't explicit & clear enough & still was a bit to "witty" for some.., ..

Edited February 13, 2008 by Cracker

[Fulham Broadway 17,362]

Israel year on year is cited as having the most vile, racist fans by Kick It Out. No wonder the surrounding countries wont play them and think they're cunts.

I find it a little odd too that they were so eager to give him a four year contract but that's Roman world for you!

After watching Grant and how he operates on and off the pitch and from what I've read about his life in the Israeli league what we are seeing now is pretty much what you would expect. He was renowed for his dull, safety first, try to get a win and if not then don't lose no matter what style of football.

Hence many Israeli journalists stunned surprise when he was put forward as the attacking balm to Mourinho's pragmatist age.

Grant is no risk taker that much is certain, he is no risk taker because (a) it is not in his nature and never has been no matter what he might spout forth to you, me and Roman (b)because he is simply scared of losing, losing the fans respect (which he has never really had yet if full measure), losing any support he had from the press sick of the Mourinho ego trip as certain journos saw it and © worried about losing his job if the results get bad - the dream job he has assiduously worked his way towards getting by arse licking anyone who had power and influence to get him this far.

The one thing I do disagree with you on is the intelligence aspect. Grant is intelligent, he was intelligent enough to spot that Roman had a hankering for a change of coach and insert himself into his circle in time and convince him that he was the man - he was intelligent enough to not change anything at the club when he came on board - again smart and he was intelligent to not allow his ego to get in the way and agree to Ten Cate coming on board and Clarke staying (a Mourinho cohort lest we forget) because he probably knew deep down he needed the support.

Those are not actions of a stupid guy, but unfortunately there is that kind of intelligence and then there is the kind of intelligence which allows you to read a game in an instant, smell the mood of the crowd, sense the players mood at any one moment and the opposition's to boot and make your move at key moments with key players, willing to turn a formation around in a moment by not necessarily replacing like with like. It's this kind of intelligence that I don't think Grant has in any great abundance. I say "think" because I need to see him operate a few more times against a really big club not an Olympiakos or a Liverpool in bad form but a Man Utd, Arsenal, Barca, Milan - that kind of team.

He may surprise me and prove that he has climbed a steep learning curve and what Mourinho had - that tactical nous and intelligence - is something Grant can acquire but I have my doubts.

Beating Wigan, Derby, Sunderland, QPR and the like or crushing Man City or even beating a soon to implode Valencia have not convinced me that he's got what it takes there.

Hope he proves me wrong, despite the fact I can't say I've warmed to the guy one bit.

I think we will still be stuck with him into next season no matter what happens this - Roman has put his faith in this guy and there is no way he wants to look a mug for all to see. So Grant had better get things right at the sharp end of the season because the prospects for next season if he stays (but wins no silverware) seem very uncertain to me.

Sorry P, I cant have made myself clear. I don't think he's not clever in a general sense, then again some people who are rich aren't the brightest -it's as you say he doesn't seem to have any get up and go, no tactical awareness during the flux of a game.

If we take Sunday, he started a clearly unfit Lampard in a game that needed midfield dominance and fresh legs, while Mikel who's been playing at a very high level in Africa, and has had a week off sat on the bench.

He made no adjustments to formation or style throughout the game, made the blandest and most obvious of substitutions, and still hasnt beaten a top 4 side.

With our financial foundations we should be doing better - results don't seem quite good enough for us to be champions.

Grant is a manager who did ok in an Israeli league, (hijacking another managers team as he did Chelsea) and below average in International football.

At the end of the day the club has been built up to monumental proportions thanks to Abramovichs cash -it is his plaything if he wants -and he has in place a Yes man/puppet that will allow him to control all the way down to team selection if he wants.

[warnie_666 1,081]

First of all I agree with you entirely-"I really don't care who manages as long as we win the League or the Champions League."

but I don't think he played for a draw, I really don't think he has reached any kind of stable position yet in the team or as a top premiership club coach, that he could start allowing himself to play such doggy ugly "games" such as losing crucial title points on purpose ext..& think he would still manage to get away with it somehow,

He played to win, he needs to win!..no one is going to forgive him yet like at other teams, as for example they have forgiven Wenger & Ferguson several times for not performing well in previous seasons & not earning any silverware..

he's still very far from being in such a comfortable position like those two & others..

from what I saw yesterday Liverpool were one of the best sides we've played for some time

they had their strongest players on the pitch & with a good bench available to..

& as I have said previously. they are a frustrated hungry team that need positive results at any cost..

& now lets see who we had.. Lampard wasn't really there, Malouda went lost to & Swp wasn't at his best either..so who's left to "throw" forward when nor Drogba or Sheva are around ?what other options did Grant have?..personaly I cant think of many more in this case,..

can you?.. what?..

Sorry Cracker, But Jose proved his worth in his very first season with his tactics on field.

Secondly, Liverpool always have their tail up when they play us but they'll go on to lose against shitty sides like reading.

Thirdly, Playing with 4 defenders and a holding midfeilder for 90 mins, and you say He wasnt playing for Draw? well then he wasnt playing for win either.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

Jurgen Klinnsman got the Germany job without having much experience. He did pretty well. Can Grant prove us wrong? Lets wait till we get to the end of the season, analyse our trophy haul and see how well he did in hindsight.

[Cracker 0]

Israel year on year is cited as having the most vile, racist fans by Kick It Out. No wonder the surrounding countries wont play them and think they're cunts.

Well because your not ready to put a lid on it & shut up already Mr "Moderator".. & it seems that some of the others here & even your own staff (that do have the best intentions & I say that as a very positive fact..) although they would very wish to, for some reason aren't able to influence you even to moderate your own tongue, not of Course speaking about the forum at whole properely..,

here are a few links that can explain in a "slightly" more serious & for a change with actual historic facts, some of the main roots of racism & antisemitism in the middle east,

1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabs_and_antisemitism

2) http://www.jcpa.org/phas/phas-21.htm

3) http://europenews.dk/en/node/3488

and another site that shows that in spite of these type of racist literature & behavior's there are still a hopefully substantial amount of Arabs that have chosen a totally different path , & hopefully in time they will be heard much more & louder & will really help to path the way to a to long needed peace in the area..

here- http://www.arabsforisrael.com/

In no way am I saying that this much too long conflict hasn't taken its toll also on some relatively very few Israeli youths, that have made on certain occasions idiotic & disgraceful anti-Arab related remarks & chants at football games ext..that need to be condemned & dealt with in the the most strongest terms & actions,

but I think that a much better & closer look at Israeli "main stream" normal public, media & national sports associations ext'.. will show that they are not in anyway racist or anti-Arab & totally despise such behavior & try to do anything they can possibly to outroot the small minorities that act in such ways..

you would never find in Israeli main newspapers, literature & other formal media such racism like is found in at least some parts of the Arab world, thats a fact.

Edited February 14, 2008 by Cracker

[Aesthetic Relic 301]

Jurgen Klinnsman got the Germany job without having much experience. He did pretty well. Can Grant prove us wrong? Lets wait till we get to the end of the season, analyse our trophy haul and see how well he did in hindsight.

Difference here is that Klinsmann has done a hell of a lot in his career, been there done it, got the t-shirt. As has Gullit, Hoddle, And many other managers.....except Bryan Robson

Grunt has been there, watrched it and bought his t-shirt off e-bay

[Cracker 0]

& I Just want to make one thing clear here,

the last thing that I want' is to turn this forum into some kind of political/religious/race discussion(argument) type of forum..

as I have proved in the past when I ignored this guy & others remarks & was ready to put everything that was said behind us & just move on..

& that also after an official compliant I sent to Admin's here, that totally understood & agreed that there have been some serious unacceptable problems here in the forum lately, & promised & insured me that they will do anything in their power to try an deal & stop them,

Anyway I have patients & I know that things can not always change over night,..

but saying that, I'm quite sure that sooner or later may Patience here will start running out,

and if that happens I'm not going to continue standing & eating this crap here almost on my own..{execpt with a few other members & staff-(no names) but I have no doubt that they no who they are..} here that have been very nice & helpful, & I'm going to make sure that many other people that are connected in someway to the this issue will know exactly what has & is going on here in the forum & I'm sure that they will have lots to say & write about here to..

I'm sure that that many of the Israeli Chelsea-fc fans club-http://Chelsea.co.il/ (that by the way exists many years before Grant or even Abramovich had anything to do with the club) would love to know what has been said here by some people about their country culture & religion & I'm sure they will have allot to write about it here to...

If this carries on I Will not hesitate to contact them & other Jewish, Israeli & other

anti-racist football fans & organizations to have a say & write here exactly what they think about what has & is continuing to go on here in this forum..

personally as I have wrote a few times here in the past, I have no interest what so ever to turn this forum into a political "boxing" arena, but if this guy and others similar to him don't stop trying to provoke problems & start to shut up..they will be very clearly the ones that inevitably are going to push this forum into it.

But still as I said already I have quite a bit of patients left & I'm going to wait on as long as possible, & hopefully these problems will be dealt in the appropriate way by whoever can & should deal with them, at last once & for all.

http://Chelsea.co.il/

Edited February 14, 2008 by Cracker