Chelsea 2-1 Bournemouth

[Thor 2,745]

10 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

No they weren't, they weren't fighting for the title the 2 seasons before Pep got there in the 16-17 season.  

He spend a ton of money and made them the best team in the league but the team that was left behind post Mancini/Pellegrini needed a clean out to take that next step and not only win the league but also do it in the UCL. 

Absolute nonsense.

In 13/14 they won the title with the 2nd biggest goal difference in league history at the time. 

In 14/15 - they come 2nd after again having by far the biggest goal difference in the league. 

15/16 - they stumble just like every other team and Leicester has a historic season never before seen. 

 

Am I to believe Leicester was more talented than them when Pep took over? Or Tottenham and Arsenal? They pumped us 3-0 both times they played us that season.

City the prior 5 years to Pep joining were doing a shit tonne better than us buying, and then add on top the unlimited spending post that. KDB, Toure, Silva, Aguero, Fernandinho, Sterling, Kompany... 

Our two CL winning teams weren't that talented. The majority of these guys were in their prime when Pep took over. Or entering.

[Thor 2,745]

10 hours ago, Fernando said:

Again hater talking. 

At Chelsea with the same amount of money and we are not there. 

United has spends a lot of money and nowhere near there. 

No one here got to inherit what Pep did. They inherited a sub 40 goal scoring a season team.

Adjust the majority of City's spend for inflation and those numbers would be fun to look at too. 

City as a team have been far better run that us 5+ years before Pep came in. Buying the right talent, building a style of football internally amongst the ranks, etc.

Pep does what he always does - takes over the far and away best team, keeps spending, and coaches wins.

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, Thor said:

No one here got to inherit what Pep did. They inherited a sub 40 goal scoring a season team.

Adjust the majority of City's spend for inflation and those numbers would be fun to look at too. 

City as a team have been far better run that us 5+ years before Pep came in. Buying the right talent, building a style of football internally amongst the ranks, etc.

Pep does what he always does - takes over the far and away best team, keeps spending, and coaches wins.

There are quite a few clubs which are well-run and don't really compete for anything substantial.

City have little to show for all that good business until Pep changed their mentality and the way to play football. Pep is also very particular in what he wants from the players they sign in terms of characteristics.
Their defenders are all very comfortable going past the midfield line for example--that's very particular to that style Pep uses.

No-one is saying the club isn't well-run (not to mention filthy rich), but not acknowledging Pep's success is bit a strange tbh.

Edited May 20, 2024 by robsblubot

[Clockwork 1,794]

21 hours ago, bluesman2610 said:

This is what you get with manager stability you can say the same about Klopp and Liverpool to a lesser extent. If they jumped ship on Klopp first season where he finished 8th they wouldn’t have had the success they’ve achieved either. We need stability.

You don't think United were patient enough with Ole Gunnar or ETG?

 

[Clockwork 1,794]

12 hours ago, robsblubot said:

There are quite a few clubs which are well-run and don't really compete for anything substantial.

City have little to show for all that good business until Pep changed their mentality and the way to play football. Pep is also very particular in what he wants from the players they sign in terms of characteristics.
Their defenders are all very comfortable going past the midfield line for example--that's very particular to that style Pep uses.

No-one is saying the club isn't well-run (not to mention filthy rich), but not acknowledging Pep's success is bit a strange tbh.

City hired former Barcas Txiki Begristain and Ferran Soriano in 2012, and hired Pep in 2016. They planned this for a while, and it was inevitable that Pep was going to coach in the PL and manage City. They shifted their playing with Manuel Pellegrini, and obviously went up another notch under Pep.

Great planning and vision by City.

To me the best way to run a club is have a clear vision of the club, have the structure above the manager. The manager is an extension of the club vision and planning.

[bluesman2610 1,423]

49 minutes ago, Clockwork said:

You don't think United were patient enough with Ole Gunnar or ETG?

 

They were the wrong fit for their project 

[robsblubot 3,595]

3 hours ago, Clockwork said:

City hired former Barcas Txiki Begristain and Ferran Soriano in 2012, and hired Pep in 2016. They planned this for a while, and it was inevitable that Pep was going to coach in the PL and manage City. They shifted their playing with Manuel Pellegrini, and obviously went up another notch under Pep.

Great planning and vision by City.

To me the best way to run a club is have a clear vision of the club, have the structure above the manager. The manager is an extension of the club vision and planning.

Heh I remember pellegrini’s city — nothing special.

Yes, the club had a clear vision. They wanted to play in that particular style; style which Pep authored. Pep successfully implemented that style everywhere he went, so they knew exactly what they were going to get with him.

[YorkshireBlue 3,295]

18 hours ago, Thor said:

No one here got to inherit what Pep did. They inherited a sub 40 goal scoring a season team.

Adjust the majority of City's spend for inflation and those numbers would be fun to look at too. 

City as a team have been far better run that us 5+ years before Pep came in. Buying the right talent, building a style of football internally amongst the ranks, etc.

Pep does what he always does - takes over the far and away best team, keeps spending, and coaches wins.

But that's what pep has earned, he isn't manager to go to a struggling team, he's a manager to go to a good team and turn them into one of the best teams in the world...... He goes to these teams because he can, and they want him, and he's top of the pile on every clubs manager shortlist? He's done that he's created that, you can't take that away from him regardless what you think, it's a ridiculous argument.

Edited May 21, 2024 by YorkshireBlue

[Thor 2,745]

9 hours ago, YorkshireBlue said:

But that's what pep has earned, he isn't manager to go to a struggling team, he's a manager to go to a good team and turn them into one of the best teams in the world...... He goes to these teams because he can, and they want him, and he's top of the pile on every clubs manager shortlist? He's done that he's created that, you can't take that away from him regardless what you think, it's a ridiculous argument.

I never said otherwise. 
I said he has gotten the most favourable conditions out of any manager ever. 
 

1 CL with this City team is an underachievement. 
None with that Bayern team. Underachievement. 
 

Pep also gets the most leniency. Pep also has gone to a team with 115 pending infractions that go outside of just the rules of the sport but fraud level. 
 

I find all the 100m sprinters super impressive even though I know they’re all on PEDs. But if all were clean aside from one you wouldn’t be as impressed by the one. 

[NikkiCFC 8,366]

9 hours ago, Thor said:

I never said otherwise. 
I said he has gotten the most favourable conditions out of any manager ever. 
 

1 CL with this City team is an underachievement. 
None with that Bayern team. Underachievement. 

I agree. Managers can do 3 things. 

Overachieve, underachieve and do expected. 

Pep mostly do expected or fails like many times in CL. 

He could never do what Ranieri, Conte, Mourinho, Alonso did... Overachieve big time. Put him in mid table team or relegation fodder I have no doubt he would be the worst. 

[Reddish-Blue 2,513]

13 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Put him in mid table team or relegation fodder I have no doubt he would be the worst. 

You put any solid manager in charge of mid table or relegation fodder and they wouldn't achieve anything...

Just like if you put a relegation manager in charge of a top side, they wouldn't be competing for titles.   You think if the Sheffield United manager was put in charge of say City or even Arsenal that they would still get 85+ points this season?    

[robsblubot 3,595]

6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

I agree. Managers can do 3 things. 

Overachieve, underachieve and do expected. 

Pep mostly do expected or fails like many times in CL. 

He could never do what Ranieri, Conte, Mourinho, Alonso did... Overachieve big time. Put him in mid table team or relegation fodder I have no doubt he would be the worst. 

Agreed, and? why is that important? He started and will end as a top manager for big clubs. Whether he can employ a defensive formation that works at a smaller club is irrelevant IMO.

I think your analysis is too focused on results, and expectations based on investment; reminder that we overspent all clubs in the last 2 seasons.

I suggest looking at Pep focusing on considering consistency and playing style.
I think he's well above average with the consistency, and authored the style in which City plays (and Arsenal attempts to implement). That playing style helps provide that consistency esp in long championships like the PL.

Consistently dominate the PL is very different from Germany or even Spain. So much so that Pool managed to disrupt that in a season, but it did not last.

Reminder City won everything they played last season.

[NikkiCFC 8,366]

6 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

  You think if the Sheffield United manager was put in charge of say City or even Arsenal that they would still get 85+ points this season?    

Maybe why not. 

 

19 minutes ago, robsblubot said:

Reminder City won everything they played last season.

One CL in 7 attempts when you are main favorite is nothing special. He was 6 times knocked out by weaker opponents like Monaco, Lyon, Spurs... won once thanks to Lukaku. 

Zidane who is considered below average coach won like 4 CL in a row. 

So yeah I believe that anyone can do it with best teams. RDM or Grant...

Just like every F1 driver would win Championship in Max car. 

[Gundalf 806]

2 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Just like every F1 driver would win Championship in Max car. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

Maybe why not. 

 

One CL in 7 attempts when you are main favorite is nothing special. He was 6 times knocked out by weaker opponents like Monaco, Lyon, Spurs... won once thanks to Lukaku. 

Zidane who is considered below average coach won like 4 CL in a row. 

So yeah I believe that anyone can do it with best teams. RDM or Grant...

Just like every F1 driver would win Championship in Max car. 

Yes, CL is a single-elimination competition where his style of play is less effective. Going behind late in a single elimination game and you are likely going out.
I'd actually argue that CL is dominated more by players than managers... having the players who can win you matches is mandatory, which is why they went for Haaland.

League is different. His (positional -- that he authored) style of play is really consistent in those competitions.
I totally see a huge difference in City before and after Pep took the helm, but that's me. 🤷‍♂️
Would they win like they do without the players? of course not. Can't win at this level without the top players.

The best F1 pilots always end up driving the best cars eventually.
 

Edited May 22, 2024 by robsblubot

[Thor 2,745]

11 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

You put any solid manager in charge of mid table or relegation fodder and they wouldn't achieve anything...

Just like if you put a relegation manager in charge of a top side, they wouldn't be competing for titles.   You think if the Sheffield United manager was put in charge of say City or even Arsenal that they would still get 85+ points this season?    

You're not really reading or replying to what he is saying. 

His conditions have always been more favourable - and if all things being equal he said he wouldn't do as well as the other managers he considers better. Not a far fetch statement when there is proof of that. 

1 CL in 7 tries with City. Underachieving. 

None with Bayern. Underachieving. They had just won it too. 

Wherever Pep has gone, it is the most stacked team in the league with the most financial backing. On top of that controversy with ref payments and 115 charges for added benefit of getting ahead. 

Zidane didn't have as much going for him - CL after CL win. 

Carlo didn't even have a striker - knocks him out and serial CL winner.

 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,823]

Caicedo goal nominated for PL goal of the season.

 

 

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

On 24/05/2024 at 23:49, ZAPHOD2319 said:

Caicedo goal nominated for PL goal of the season.

 

 

Obv garnachos overhead kick will win it bc it’s manure but caicedo‘s is just as good. The strike is so clean and even finds the top corner, not tipping once before it hits the net. One of the most uncompromising goals from the half way line. 

[ZAPHOD2319 4,823]

Chelsea Goal of the Year