Timo Werner

[Warning_Hazard 156]

I thought Timo was actually pretty good for us yesterday, People belittling his movement I think is a huge overlook.

Drawing defenders and being virtually man marked opened it right up for others to unlock palace for me.

If we can have that with lukaku I think we will see more goals when we need them this season.

[DH1988 1,301]

Movement isn’t in question for me, his runs are hardly ever spotted by our midfield. Though his finishing is just woeful, remains so, let’s see how the season progresses, but he’s going to need to get that 1v1 confidence back.

[different level 1,056]

37 minutes ago, Mário César said:

This will be the last season for us...

I like him but its hard do defend him...

I find it a bit extraordinary seeing the excuses some people are willing to make up in order to defend him. It's the Torres/Morata story all over again until it finally comes the time when everybody concedes Timo is a flop just like his Spanish counterparts.

[OneMoSalah 8,781]

30 minutes ago, DH1988 said:

Movement isn’t in question for me, his runs are hardly ever spotted by our midfield. Though his finishing is just woeful, remains so, let’s see how the season progresses, but he’s going to need to get that 1v1 confidence back.

This narrative that seems to be aimed at Kovacic and Jorginho in particular, that they don’t pass forwards or find his runs is baffling for me is incredibly suspect.

Theres numerous times every game players look for him running in behind. Just because its not putting him in direftly one on one with the GK doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. How many times did we look for him in behind yesterday? How many times did he do anything meaningful with those passes he did get?

 

[Mário César 979]

38 minutes ago, different level said:

I find it a bit extraordinary seeing the excuses some people are willing to make up in order to defend him. It's the Torres/Morata story all over again until it finally comes the time when everybody concedes Timo is a flop just like his Spanish counterparts.

I like him as a player and he was important in some games last season. But truth is that he needs to improve his finish.

He have this season to prove his value. Lets see what will happen

[Syltherin 25]

with the arrival of Lukaku,,now Timo can have a free run of defender since Lukaku will attract the 2 CB's enemy in the same time. if still didn't work we must admit it that timo just not made for PL. we can sell next season and lose a penny fee for him....

[Warning_Hazard 156]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

This narrative that seems to be aimed at Kovacic and Jorginho in particular, that they don’t pass forwards or find his runs is baffling for me is incredibly suspect.

Theres numerous times every game players look for him running in behind. Just because its not putting him in direftly one on one with the GK doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. How many times did we look for him in behind yesterday? How many times did he do anything meaningful with those passes he did get?

 

I think we do need a creative mid IF havertz is going to played in a more forward role.

Going by the stats Timo was the best on the pitch yesterday and Tuchel is a stats man.. (goalies for villareal etc)

Torres was brought in to win us the league as the main man up front for at the time a huge amount of money and he was like 5 years older with a great record in the prem already so on paper it made sense, Unfair comparison

Edited August 15, 2021 by Warning_Hazard

[OneMoSalah 8,781]

16 minutes ago, Warning_Hazard said:

I think we do need a creative mid IF havertz is going to played in a more forward role.

Going by the stats Timo was the best on the pitch yesterday and Tuchel is a stats man.. (goalies for villareal etc)

Torres was brought in to win us the league as the main man up front for at the time a huge amount of money and he was like 5 years older with a great record in the prem already so on paper it made sense, Unfair comparison

Maybe its an unfair comparison to Torres yes regarding him as being successful or unsuccessful here as a player but the excuses regarding movement or nobody finding his runs was also hugely prominent the first 6 months when Torres was here.

Although some will dispute it and say Torres was injured or injury prone or winding down it was still used, as it was for Falcao during his loan spell. I remember the buzz around AVB’s appointment and Mata signing as some sort of changing moment as if it would turn Torres into a 20 goal a season CF in all comps. It didn’t. Ironically it was the fat Spanish waiter who did it somehow in 12-13.

Some wont admit it but it is double standards and people blaming other players for things that aren’t entirely their fault ie. Timo not scoring because “nobody found/finds his runs” or “midfielders cannot/do not play forward often enough”, he’s not scoring/scored because he isn’t anywhere near clinical enough. Hence the horrendous YouTube videos consisting of about 10 big sitters last year. Or the two huge barren spells. 

His movement helps in moments of certain games but people are acting as if his runs are usually neglected and this is why he doesn’t affect games enough. I strongly disagree with this. He’s capable of dribbling players also when he’s outside on the left opposed to being more central too and doesn’t do it enough. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[Warning_Hazard 156]

3 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Maybe its an unfair comparison to Torres yes regarding him as being successful or unsuccessful here as a player but the excuses regarding movement or nobody finding his runs was also hugely prominent the first 6 months when Torres was here.

Although some will dispute it and say Torres was injured or injury prone or winding down it was still used, as it was for Falcao during his loan spell. I remember the buzz around AVB’s appointment and Mata signing as some sort of changing moment as if it would turn Torres into a 20 goal a season CF in all comps. It didn’t. Ironically it was the fat Spanish waiter who did it somehow in 12-13.

Some wont admit it but it is double standards and people blaming other players for things that aren’t entirely their fault ie. Timo not scoring because “nobody found/finds his runs” or “midfielders cannot/do not play forward often enough”, he’s not scoring because he isn’t anywhere near clinical enough. Hence the horrendous YouTube videos consisting of about 10 big sitters last year.

I think its too early to give up on timo, The stats dont lie n all that..

If he gets 10 goals this season in the prem and keeps distracting other teams defenders I think hes done his job

Im not sure if he was signed to be our no 9 all out striker also.

Hard to compare with players of old as the lower teams are now much more competitive and pacey.

Timos main issue is getting some goals but thats our whole squad hence why theyve spent 97million quid on lukaku

IF he doesnt get any goals this season and wimpers out like a breeze on a beach then yeah I wont defend him when people get restless and want to replace him with a forward that scores, However that as we know is easier said than done.

Cheers.

[DH1988 1,301]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

This narrative that seems to be aimed at Kovacic and Jorginho in particular, that they don’t pass forwards or find his runs is baffling for me is incredibly suspect.

Theres numerous times every game players look for him running in behind. Just because its not putting him in direftly one on one with the GK doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. How many times did we look for him in behind yesterday? How many times did he do anything meaningful with those passes he did get?

 

Its not just those two, but I'll get onboard with those two inparticular as well for now, though they had a good game, especially Kova, considering how concerned I was in preseason with his lack of awareness/caught in possession. I'm not doubting you watched the game, but Timo 100% did make those runs yesterday, only to have to stop in frustration, I've posted elsewhere that when this does happen he is offside or 1v1 confidence is shot, its not about pinging the blame, its observation on whats happening consistently, when it does happen, Timo needs to work on that too. ie. he was put through yesterday in the second half on the RW only to waste the shot.

[OneMoSalah 8,781]

3 minutes ago, DH1988 said:

Its not just those two, but I'll get onboard with those two inparticular as well for now, though they had a good game, especially Kova, considering how concerned I was in preseason with his lack of awareness/caught in possession. I'm not doubting you watched the game, but Timo 100% did make those runs yesterday, only to have to stop in frustration, I've posted elsewhere that when this does happen he is offside or 1v1 confidence is shot, its not about pinging the blame, its observation on whats happening consistently, when it does happen, Timo needs to work on that too. ie. he was put through yesterday in the second half on the RW only to waste the shot.

Regarding the runs, lets agree to disagree. Its not as if every footballer in the world will get passed to for every run that they make as there are 10 other players on the pitch but he still receives passes for an amount of these movements and still needs to do more at times to affect the game in other ways.

At a top team, you cannot just be the guy who can only run in behind to affect the game. Even more so if you’re not playing as a number 9 but more as an attacking midfielder/wide forward/wide 10/second striker or whatever you want to call those positions depending on who’s in them between (Mount, Kai, Hakim, Timo, CHO), you want goals, assists (granted he did get a lot last season), chances created and generally an influence on the games in some way.

It goes for all of them but I just don’t see Timo being that on a consistent basis and I do think once Hakim comes back if in the same sort of level he was pre-season, he and Lukaku will probably play very often together leaving one space in the 3 for Mount/Timo/Havertz and perhaps CHO. I think Ziyech is going to be huge for us if he keeps fit and kicks on. 

[DH1988 1,301]

2 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Regarding the runs, lets agree to disagree. Its not as if every footballer in the world will get passed to for every run that they make as there are 10 other players on the pitch but he still receives passes for an amount of these movements and still needs to do more at times to affect the game in other ways.

At a top team, you cannot just be the guy who can only run in behind to affect the game. Even more so if you’re not playing as a number 9 but more as an attacking midfielder/wide forward/wide 10/second striker or whatever you want to call those positions depending on who’s in them between (Mount, Kai, Hakim, Timo, CHO), you want goals, assists (granted he did get a lot last season), chances created and generally an influence on the games in some way.

It goes for all of them but I just don’t see Timo being that on a consistent basis and I do think once Hakim comes back if in the same sort of level he was pre-season, he and Lukaku will probably play very often together leaving one space in the 3 for Mount/Timo/Havertz and perhaps CHO. I think Ziyech is going to be huge for us if he keeps fit and kicks on. 

Each to their own, perhaps have it in mind for the next few games, there is no expectation for me to think each time he should be found, but its consistent enough for me to think "ugh Jorgi/Kova please" - Jorgi is definitely capable of playing those balls too. We agree on the second part on him doing more, there are aspects to his game which I do like, but those are attributes I'd expect of any player playing at a top level and for a top club, though you don't always get that. Timo struggles to bring the link up play with Alonso and others in that pocket of space, its incredibly frustrating. At the moment, he is the guy that makes space and wants to go in behind and/or over the top, with a workrate to match - But as I said, I really would expect that of anyone playing for us.

Timo would drift to LW, RW, ST yesterday, interchanging with Puli as well, similarly who I thought had an awful game, but still managed to get on the scoresheet, silver lines and all that. 

Hakim has quality, no doubt, but the game almost needs to be setup for him, otherwise he looks lost and out of sorts when being asked to do the dirty work. My opinion was that if we could have found a suitable replacement then we should have moved Hakim on, just my opinion. But I cannot wait to see the left foot whips to Rom, so, I'd like to be proved wrong there.

[Jase 43,479]

  

24 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Maybe its an unfair comparison to Torres yes regarding him as being successful or unsuccessful here as a player but the excuses regarding movement or nobody finding his runs was also hugely prominent the first 6 months when Torres was here.

Although some will dispute it and say Torres was injured or injury prone or winding down it was still used, as it was for Falcao during his loan spell. I remember the buzz around AVB’s appointment and Mata signing as some sort of changing moment as if it would turn Torres into a 20 goal a season CF in all comps. It didn’t. Ironically it was the fat Spanish waiter who did it somehow in 12-13.

Some wont admit it but it is double standards and people blaming other players for things that aren’t entirely their fault ie. Timo not scoring because “nobody found/finds his runs” or “midfielders cannot/do not play forward often enough”, he’s not scoring/scored because he isn’t anywhere near clinical enough. Hence the horrendous YouTube videos consisting of about 10 big sitters last year. Or the two huge barren spells. 

His movement helps in moments of certain games but people are acting as if his runs are usually neglected and this is why he doesn’t affect games enough. I strongly disagree with this. He’s capable of dribbling players also when he’s outside on the left opposed to being more central too and doesn’t do it enough. 

It's not about finding excuses regarding Werner's movement. It's more about his movement, his pace etc enable us to play the way we have under Tuchel. 

For the umpteenth time, the comparison with Torres and even Morata is just pure lazy. Yes, all 3 have the unwanted reputation of not scoring enough, missing chances for us but unlike Torres and Morata, I'm not sure Werner was bought to be our #9 given he's not a #9 and the way Lampard was using him to begin with - one minute he was playing on the left and the next he was playing down the middle. With Torres especially, he held us back for years because the club and the management tried to do everything to make Torres work - from getting the right players in, to getting a manager to even building a team around him! No one is saying that with Werner and that's not the case with him and again unlike Torres and Morata, Werner can at least still be used in other positions instead of just being stuck #9 and he is at least swappable perhaps with some other players in the team. As @Tomo said before, he at least has other qualities that we can fall back onto, when things aren't going right for him like now, compared to Torres and Morata. Yes, we know Werner needs to improve and we can argue till the cows come home over this...

[Jase 43,479]

2 hours ago, Mário César said:

I like him as a player and he was important in some games last season. But truth is that he needs to improve his finish.

He have this season to prove his value. Lets see what will happen

If we are going with the sentiment that players need to improve this season or they will be sold next year, then a few players' - not just Werner - future are on the line this season. 

[Mário César 979]

19 minutes ago, Jase said:

If we are going with the sentiment that players need to improve this season or they will be sold next year, then a few players' - not just Werner - future are on the line this season. 

Dont you agree with me?

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, Mário César said:

Dont you agree with me?

If we apply that to everyone, then sure I guess.

[NikkiCFC 8,001]

 

[OneMoSalah 8,781]

11 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

 

Probably missed it.