Timo Werner

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

7 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

Isn't going to happen. Far too old to improve his basic talent level. He's got what he's got, and will have to work with it.

The comparison which keeps coming to my mind is Fernando Torres. Our former player had flaws in his game which some people overlooked but, Timo seems better than Nando to me. I don't believe we've bought the next galactico, but we've got someone who can contribute for us.

He is similar to Torres in the sense that he needs to feel the trust of the people around him, has to be pampered a little. Probably not to the same extent as Torres but as many great players Timo is a sensitive guy. Anyway you should not compare him to post injury torres. Timo has way more pace than even pre-injury Torres. Still if he gets injured and loses that pace he is basically ueseless so we better hope he stays healthy his whole career which so far he has managed.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

7 hours ago, Magic Lamps said:

He is similar to Torres in the sense that he needs to feel the trust of the people around him, has to be pampered a little. Probably not to the same extent as Torres but as many great players Timo is a sensitive guy. Anyway you should not compare him to post injury torres. Timo has way more pace than even pre-injury Torres. Still if he gets injured and loses that pace he is basically ueseless so we better hope he stays healthy his whole career which so far he has managed.

In case you are unaware, I never rated Fernando Torres. Not when he was with Atleti and being linked with Chelsea, not while he was scoring goals for Liverpool and most definitely not on the day he joined The Blues. Only once before, on the afternoon we signed Chris Sutton, had I been so angry with my football club as I was on the morning I learned we'd done a deal for Torres the preceding night.

In saying that I think Timo is a better player than Nando, I'm therefore not praising our new signing as much as you might have imagined I intended to. I can't speak to Timo's mental strength, but I do like what he brings. I like his decisiveness when presented with goal scoring opportunities where he does not have time to think about it, and I like his decision making over whether to shoot or pass. Like doesn't cover the way I feel about his pace however. I don't like it, I love it.

I think Timo has limitations, but I also think we should be grateful for them. Yes, grateful. Were it not for those limitations he would have signed for a club higher up the food chain. He's not a galactico but he can, and I think will, improve us.

[DDA 9,924]

5 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

In case you are unaware, I never rated Fernando Torres. Not when he was with Atleti and being linked with Chelsea, not while he was scoring goals for Liverpool and most definitely not on the day he joined The Blues. Only once before, on the afternoon we signed Chris Sutton, had I been so angry with my football club as I was on the morning I learned we'd done a deal for Torres the preceding night.

In saying that I think Timo is a better player than Nando, I'm therefore not praising our new signing as much as you might have imagined I intended to. I can't speak to Timo's mental strength, but I do like what he brings. I like his decisiveness when presented with goal scoring opportunities where he does not have time to think about it, and I like his decision making over whether to shoot or pass. Like doesn't cover the way I feel about his pace however. I don't like it, I love it.

I think Timo has limitations, but I also think we should be grateful for them. Yes, grateful. Were it not for those limitations he would have signed for a club higher up the food chain. He's not a galactico but he can, and I think will, improve us.

How on Earth could you not rate the Torres that was scoring goals for Liverpool. That Torres was the best striker in the World at the time. 

[killer1257 3,282]

How on Earth could you not rate the Torres that was scoring goals for Liverpool. That Torres was the best striker in the World at the time. 

Hahaha, Comparing prime Torres with Timo Werner. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Prime Torres was one of the fastest and most gifted technical players I have seen my whole life. His finishing, his dribbling and his pace was insane. Injuries fucked him up and that is why I never wanted him at Chelsea

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[DDA 9,924]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

Hahaha, Comparing prime Torres with Timo Werner.

Prime Torres was one of the fastest and most gifted technical players I have seen my whole life. His finishing, his dribbling and his pace was insane. Injuries fucked him up and that is why I never wanted him at Chelsea

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Aye, Timo is nowhere near the Torres in red level. That guy was a monster. We bought a shadow of that guy. Timo brings different qualities but in my opinion he still needs alot of work... luckily je is young so he can improve his passing and hold up play.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

Hahaha, Comparing prime Torres with Timo Werner.

Prime Torres was one of the fastest and most gifted technical players I have seen my whole life. His finishing, his dribbling and his pace was insane. Injuries fucked him up and that is why I never wanted him at Chelsea

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He wasn't that technically gifted, if he was he wouldn't have declined that badly. David Villa was a much better all round player and that came to the fore almost every time they played together for Spain even when Nando at his absolute peak.

His main attributes that gave him that crucial one second advantage over many defenders were his acceleration and his underrated upper body strength (for reference see how he knocked over Ferdinand to score at Anfield against Man.United). As soon as injuries took them away he was reliant on his technical game and tactical mind and as we all know, neither were good enough. 

I don't 100% agree with @OhForAGreavsieas I did rate him in his prime, but it wasn't his technical ability that got him to where he was.

[Jase 43,479]

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[killer1257 3,282]

He wasn't that technically gifted, if he was he wouldn't have declined that badly. David Villa was a much better all round player and that came to the fore almost every time they played together for Spain even when Nando at his absolute peak.
His main attributes that gave him that crucial one second advantage over many defenders were his acceleration and his underrated upper body strength (for reference see how he knocked over Ferdinand to score at Anfield against Man.United). As soon as injuries took them away he was reliant on his technical game and tactical mind and as we all know, neither were good enough. 
I don't 100% agree with [mention=10857]OhForAGreavsie[/mention]as I did rate him in his prime, but it wasn't his technical ability that got him to where he was.

Prime Torres was an amazing dribbler. Just look at his solo dribbling goals. And your argument does not count because prime Torres was also an amazing long distance shooter and a clinical striker, which he did not show at Chelsea. Chelsea Torres did not have any confidence because he was the biggest meme in the world at that time. He lost all of his pace, social media hate and all the other injuries did not help his confidence either.

But I agree that David Villa was technically superior than Torres, but Torres was more complete that Villa.

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[Tomo 21,751]

14 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Prime Torres was an amazing dribbler. Just look at his solo dribbling goals. And your argument does not count because prime Torres was also an amazing long distance shooter and a clinical striker, which he did not show at Chelsea. Chelsea Torres did not have any confidence because he was the biggest meme in the world at that time. He lost all of his pace, social media hate and all the other injuries did not help his confidence either.

But I agree that David Villa was technically superior than Torres, but Torres was more complete that Villa.

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This is going to sound crazy until i've added context but i though Torres's finishing in isolation while here was quite good. Torres's problem was he didn't have the tactical brain to get in those scoring positions regularly which meant he'd often go weeks without even a half chance of a goal. The rare times he got in i was confident he would finish and he usually (with a few high profile exceptions) did.

If he was a genuine bad finisher like Morata he wouldn't have even hit double figures here.

[DDA 9,924]

7 minutes ago, Tomo said:

This is going to sound crazy until i've added context but i though Torres's finishing in isolation while here was quite good. Torres's problem was he didn't have the tactical brain to get in those scoring positions regularly which meant he'd often go weeks without even a half chance of a goal. The rare times he got in i was confident he would finish and he usually (with a few high profile exceptions) did.

If he was a genuine bad finisher like Morata he wouldn't have even hit double figures here.

That's the truth..Torres used his acceleration to beat defences... and when his confidence was high and all was going well, the ball just seemed to fall to him most of the time. When he lost that acceleration, evidently here at Chels, he didn't have the naturual Strikers instinct say an Inzaghi had to bag the goals his previous ability would help achieve. 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

3 hours ago, DDA said:

How on Earth could you not rate the Torres that was scoring goals for Liverpool. That Torres was the best striker in the World at the time. 

This is the kind of thing people were telling me at the time. Because I know the difference between a good player, and an ordinary one doing well. The same way anyone with eyes and experience of watching football should have known that Kezman was not Chelsea player or that Sheva was done before he came here.

I've described it many times on here and elsewhere so apologies for the repetition but the brief Liverpool purple patch was a blip. The whole of the rest of Nando's career tells the truth about his real level. I strongly believe that with the passing of time, more people in the game will find that they feel able to tell the truth about their assessments of Nando. The only one I know who broke cover at the time was Martin Allen. He summed up his thoughts on the subject by saying, "Torres, not having him. Not having him at all."

Allen was right and there must be scores of other people in the game who knew it too.

[DDA 9,924]

1 minute ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

This is the kind of thing people were telling me at the time. Because I know the difference between a good player, and an ordinary one doing well. The same way anyone with eyes and experience of watching football should have know that Kezman was not Chelsea player or that Sheva was done before he came here.

I've described it many times on here and elsewhere so apologies for the repetition but the brief Liverpool purple patch was a blip. The whole of the rest of Nando's career tells the truth about his real level. I strongly believe that with the passing of time, more people in the game will find that they feel able to tell the truth about their assessments of Nando. The only one I know who broke cover at the time was Martin Allen. He summed up his thoughts on the subject by saying, "Torres, not having him. Not having him at all."

Wether you regard his time at Liverpool a rare patch in his career or not, that Torres was a beast. He was pretty good at Athletico too.

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

4 minutes ago, DDA said:

Wether you regard his time at Liverpool a rare patch in his career or not, that Torres was a beast. He was pretty good at Athletico too.

We'll always differ on this I suspect. I know I'm right, and you know I'm wrong so there we'll have to leave it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I am right though.

 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

3 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Hahaha, Comparing prime Torres with Timo Werner.

Prime Torres was one of the fastest and most gifted technical players I have seen my whole life. His finishing, his dribbling and his pace was insane. Injuries fucked him up and that is why I never wanted him at Chelsea

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You really need to watch those games again.

[Magic Lamps 11,692]

5 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Hahaha, Comparing prime Torres with Timo Werner.

Prime Torres was one of the fastest and most gifted technical players I have seen my whole life. His finishing, his dribbling and his pace was insane. Injuries fucked him up and that is why I never wanted him at Chelsea

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I am pretty sure stats show that Werner is way faster than prime Torres.