Super Frank Thread

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, killer1257 said:

Willian has been playing for us maybe 8 years now and was trained by some elite Coaches like Conte and nobody could really improve Willian.Willian is still the Willian we bought some years ago.
Some players are uncoachable.

People should just realise that we were Hazard FC in recent years. Without Hazard, we are no Top Club Quality wise. If we had still Hazard, Hazard would have killed Arsenal with 10 men. Hazard used to decide Matches. Now, Willian is now our new Hazard..m

What does this have to do with Willian/Hazard specifically? We don't have the best quality in the squad, I get that but have you seen any kind of attacking approach of late from us apart from just putting crosses into the box? 

[killer1257 3,282]

What does this have to do with Willian/Hazard specifically? We don't have the best quality in the squad, I get that but have you seen any kind of attacking approach of late from us apart from just putting crosses into the box? 

You questioned Lamps training methods and why we do not do anything productive in the final third and I gave you the example why it does not work.
Willian for instance is one of the guys that is probably one of the most unproductive players in the final third that I have seen at Chelsea. If we still had Hazard or Pulisic, we would be not that predictable. You can't make players like Willian better. So many elite coaches failed, so why should Lamps be the one making players like Willian into very direct and unpredictable players.


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[Jase 43,479]

Just now, killer1257 said:

You questioned Lamps training methods and why we do not do anything productive in the final third and I gave you the example why it does not work.
Willian for instance is one of the guys that is probably one of the most unproductive players in the final third that I have seen at Chelsea. If we still had Hazard or Pulisic, we would be not that predictable. You can't make players like Willian better. So many elite coaches failed, so why should Lamps be the one making players like Willian into very direct and unpredictable players.

 

You're missing the point, this is not about Willian or any specific player. It's about the football style, the attacking approach! We have gone from the good passing football earlier this season to all about dumping crosses into the box. 

[killer1257 3,282]

You're missing the point, this is not about Willian or any specific player. It's about the football style, the attacking approach! We have gone from the good passing football earlier this season to all about dumping crosses into the box. 

You can only play a specific football style with specific players that suit the system. You can't expect tiki taka with players like Zouma Willian Rüdiger Kante or CHO.
Replace CHO with Pulisic and a good midfielder with Kante and we would be way better

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[Fernando 6,585]

22 hours ago, Mana said:

If Leicester turns shite now and opens up that 3rd place, then yeah it’s the same. But at the moment, only 4th place is up for grabs and United are 6 points behind with a game in hand. And we have United coming up soon.

If we get out of the next 3 fixtures (+ Bournemouth) without losing that top 4 spot, then maybe I’d agree with you.

United dropping points today. 

As it told you, shades of Benitez season where we will finish top 4 because the others around us are so bad. 

[Nicco 927]

Lampard is so fucking lucky if Wolves lose to Liverpool we basically gained 1 point this week while playing shit on a stick.

[Jase 43,479]

16 minutes ago, Fernando said:

United dropping points today. 

As it told you, shades of Benitez season where we will finish top 4 because the others around us are so bad. 

Benitez season? Yes, we managed to finish in the Top 4 back then, just, but we were actually in the Top 4 that entire season. 

The Sarri season would be a more appropriate comparison. Hell, even last season wasn't as bad as this. 

[Jase 43,479]

3 minutes ago, Mana said:

I still stand what I said, if we go through the next 3 games (and Bournemouth away) and still have that top 4 spot, then I’ll humbly back down to agree the footballing gods have given us this top 4.

The football gods sure have a sense of humor because while we have our tough games, the others also have tricky/awkward/tough games as well:

Matchweek 25
Leicester v Chelsea
Man United v Wolves
Tottenham v Man City
Burnley v Arsenal
Crystal Palace v Sheffield United

Matchweek 26
Sheffield United v Bournemouth
Wolves v Leicester
Aston Villa v Spurs
Arsenal v Newcastle
Chelsea v Man United

Matchweek 27
Chelsea v Tottenham
Sheffield United v Brighton
Man United v Watford
Wolves v Norwich
Arsenal v Everton

Matchweek 28
Aston Villa v Sheffield United
Bournemouth v Chelsea
Tottenham v Wolves
Everton v Man United
Man City v Arsenal

Also look at this way, once we are done with that run, the only 2 tough fixtures left - at least on paper - are Liverpool (a) and Man City (h). Some of the others still gotta play Liverpool and Man City as well as one another. 

[NikkiCFC 8,286]

5 hours ago, Fernando said:

United dropping points today. 

As it told you, shades of Benitez season where we will finish top 4 because the others around us are so bad. 

 

5 hours ago, Jason said:

Benitez season? Yes, we managed to finish in the Top 4 back then, just, but we were actually in the Top 4 that entire season. 

The Sarri season would be a more appropriate comparison. Hell, even last season wasn't as bad as this. 

In Benitez season we finished 3rd with 75 points. Last season 3rd with 72. This season less than 65 for sure.

[YorkshireBlue 3,264]

7 minutes ago, Jason said:

Benitez season? Yes, we managed to finish in the Top 4 back then, just, but we were actually in the Top 4 that entire season. 

The Sarri season would be a more appropriate comparison. Hell, even last season wasn't as bad as this. 

I think it's unfair to call this a bad season we had no summer signing plus we are playing youth. Think some people here need to chill out abit while this club goes through a turn around stage, Frank obviously had an ambition and an idea for this club, and if that stio mediocre signings and a new manager every season am all for it.thia club needs to re build fro the ground up and at least let's give Frank  chance rather theb lose are shit at his first attempt with a broken team.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, BluesMadLad said:

I think it's unfair to call this a bad season we had no summer signing plus we are playing youth. Think some people here need to chill out abit while this club goes through a turn around stage, Frank obviously had an ambition and an idea for this club, and if that stio mediocre signings and a new manager every season am all for it.thia club needs to re build fro the ground up and at least let's give Frank  chance rather theb lose are shit at his first attempt with a broken team.

That's another debate but I'm talking about the PL in general this season. We have won only 4 of our last 12 league games and somehow we're still in the Top 4. 

[Superblue 6,372]

51 minutes ago, Jason said:

That's another debate but I'm talking about the PL in general this season. We have won only 4 of our last 12 league games and somehow we're still in the Top 4. 

Not just still in the top 4 but the chasing pack have only gained 3 points on us. We've gone from 9 points clear of 5th down to 6.

As ridiculous as it sounds, a run of 3 or 4 wins in a row could quite well nearly get us over the line.

[Tomo 21,751]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

That's another debate but I'm talking about the PL in general this season. We have won only 4 of our last 12 league games and somehow we're still in the Top 4. 

It is probably a stroke of fortune the competition is so shit (for top 4) while we go through the biggest rebuild of the Roman era but that's not really our problem, shit happens, in the 00s we would have turned the PL into the SPL if Fergie weren't around. If, buts, maybe's.

[Vesper 30,085]

Chelsea are eerily reminiscent of late Wenger-era Arsenal: technically gifted but capable of spectacular self-destruction

https://theathletic.com/1551483/2020/01/22/chelsea-arsenal-lampard-wenger/

If there was a moment to sum up the madness that engulfed Chelsea against 10-man Arsenal at Stamford Bridge, it was the sight of a hobbling Tammy Abraham on the corner of his own penalty area in the 87th minute.

Having been down, up, down and then up again with an ankle injury that required him to be helped from the pitch at full-time, the striker gamely, but pointlessly, volunteered himself as Hector Bellerin’s primary defender.

By the time the Arsenal captain’s shot crept inside Kepa Arrizabalaga’s far post, Frank Lampard was back in his seat in the home dugout, hunched next to a seething Jody Morris.

Both had spent much of the previous 60 seconds on the edge of the technical area, arms outstretched and bellowing — first at the referee Stuart Attwell for not stopping play to allow treatment for Abraham, then at their own players for not taking several opportunities to kick the ball out of play.

It was the 11th Premier League goal that Chelsea have conceded after the 75th minute this season. Of the 32 goals they have let in altogether, 20 have been scored after half-time.

Lampard admitted during the festive period that tiredness might have played a part but his team did not appear a step behind an Arsenal side forced to play the final 64 minutes on Tuesday night with 10 men. Chelsea did, however, once again display a startling lack of coherence and composure.

“At that point in the game you go 2-1 up, you have got to do the basics right,” Lampard said. “Get all the details right. We got one wrong, with the first (goal). And the second one was soft; soft for a right-back to cut inside and score into the bottom corner. You have to be real about it and honest about it that they had two shots — the breakaway in the first one and the second one late in the game — and they scored two goals.”

That statistical quirk has only occurred six times in Europe’s top five leagues since 2006, according to Opta. Arsenal’s expected goals (xG) rating for the match was just 0.39, compared to 2.79 for Chelsea. Lampard’s team have failed to win seven times in 12 league games at Stamford Bridge this season despite only being beaten on xG once at home. They have scored almost 11 fewer goals than the numbers suggest they should have (16 goals from an xG of 26.63) and conceded three more (12 from an xGA of 8.94).

“I don’t like too many stats on expected goals because it is not all that clear at times, but we are bottom of the league at home (for goals scored), and we’re creating second to probably Liverpool (in terms of chances),” Lampard added. “That is two ends of the scale of where we’re at.”

But as much as the analytical margins appear to be aligning against Chelsea this season, they also do precious little to protect themselves against the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune. No competent team with a 1-0 lead allows their own cleared corner to become a goal conceded on the counter-attack in the space of 10 seconds, or so haplessly fails to manage the clock against 10 men pushing for an equaliser.

Chelsea have at times paid for the naivety of youth under Lampard but only three players in his starting XI against Arsenal were aged 23 or younger. Of that trio, Callum Hudson-Odoi was the home side’s most consistent threat in the final third, while Abraham was a harrying menace whose persistence panicked Shkodran Mustafi and ruined David Luiz’s first night back at Stamford Bridge since his summer move from Chelsea to Arsenal. At the other end, Andreas Christensen generally positioned himself, and passed, sensibly.

Other, more experienced heads assumed greater culpability for Arsenal’s fightback: Emerson abandoning his covering duties on the edge of the Arsenal box to give the superb Gabriel Martinelli space in which to run, then being too casual in his attempt to move out and close down Bellerin. N’Golo Kante’s uncharacteristic and costly slip to set Martinelli away; the uncertainty that emanated from Kepa’s every touch of the ball, coupled with his unconvincing attempts to prevent both goals.

In their most brainless moments, this current Chelsea are eerily reminiscent of late Arsene Wenger-era Arsenal: technically gifted, physically deficient and wired only to dominate the ball but capable of such spectacular self-destruction that it is virtually impossible to consider any lead safe or comeback likely. At times, it is difficult to divine what exactly the overall plan is supposed to be.

Such a galling comparison would fall squarely on the shoulders of Lampard, were it not for the fact that predecessor Maurizio Sarri encountered many of the same problems. The reality is that the Arsenalification of Chelsea began in the latter half of Antonio Conte’s reign. The departures of Diego Costa, Nemanja Matic, John Terry, Thibaut Courtois and Gary Cahill since the nightmare summer of 2017 created a deficit of physicality and personality in the squad that is yet to be addressed.

Lampard wants to empower his players to think for themselves within his tactical framework and general principles — high-tempo possession, pressing, switching the point of attack — as many of Europe’s elite coaches do. The ideal is a balance of discipline and dynamism, knowing when to rely on rehearsed patterns of play and when to read the situation and react. Too often, Chelsea’s reality has been marked by stale sideways passing, erratic decision-making and poor game management.

“Unfortunately you can talk about (managing situations) and work on them, but on some of these things it’s not working,” Lampard said. “We set up to defend the edge of the box when we have a corner. If it is different on the pitch then that’s not good enough. It’s not (about) working, it’s something they have to do on the pitch. If they can’t do it then someone else will have to do it right.”

Lampard has made no secret of his desire to strengthen in January, but his admission after the Arsenal draw that it is “probably more of a short-term window for us” hints at an increased awareness of the poverty of the market. Edinson Cavani of Paris Saint-Germain is the only high-profile goalscorer available and, at 32, would be a signing in the mould of Chelsea’s worst transfer impulses: an extravagantly well-paid striker with a big reputation built in a prime now irretrievably behind him.

As he wheeled away to celebrate his equaliser, Bellerin’s mind may have drifted back to the memory of being brutally flattened by Marcos Alonso in that same penalty area almost exactly three years ago as his countryman headed Chelsea’s first goal of a 3-1 win over Arsenal. Conte’s team were marching towards an emphatic Premier League title triumph then while Wenger was drifting slowly to the end, and that moment seemed to perfectly distil the contrasting cultures and trajectories of the two clubs.

Eden Hazard’s sale brought a final end to that Chelsea cycle, and Lampard is mired in the painful process of redefining the team’s identity. Even their season as a whole lacks a coherent narrative: wildly inconsistent, obviously flawed and often unconvincing, they somehow remain on course for a top-four finish in the Premier League as well as alive in the Champions League and FA Cup.

The next four opponents after Saturday’s FA Cup trip to Hull City – Leicester City, Manchester United, Tottenham and Bayern Munich – will provide an unwelcome check to Lampard’s ambitions on all fronts if the mistakes exploited by Arsenal go uncorrected.

Chelsea have so far benefited from the greater dysfunction of their top-four race rivals, but finding more ways to concede than you can to create is a combination that can only lead to ultimate failure in May.

[communicate 2,703]

14 hours ago, Tomo said:

 

In terms of the match in itself I agree and have stated such numerous times, however people seem to be using this match as some yardstick of decline which couldn't be further from the truth.

In term of our team, it is obvious that we depend on kids to produce number. but I knew since the beginning that wont last. We have good kids but they are not exactly world beater. 

They are too young and still not good enough to carry this team. Willian is not a number guy and lamp doesn't  trust the other two striker and he froze out Pedro. Kovacic and jorgi won't produce number. Kante will add a few goals. Lamp prefer Emerson to Alonso. 

Without reinforcement (new striker) the only solution is to play another guy who can produce goals for us, I think it is too late for Pedro but lamp need to play Alonso more.