OhForAGreavsie 6,076 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, Vesper said: fjust Do you really think that we would roll with a 19yo absolutely untested (other than a few shit preseason games of nothingness) GK for a club carrying CL and top 4 ambitions?. Bulka was oki for a couple games against not exactly in form, top notch opponents, but it is (IMHO) madness to think he is capable at this point to make the jump from the reserves team to our number one keeper. An acknowledgement that you had misunderstood my original post would have been nice. No I don't really think the club would have gone with an, in fact currently, 18 year old goalkeeper. I'm just saying what I would have done. As you may not know, I am an avid watcher of our development squads and have seen a great deal of Marcin. Enough to form the opinion I've offered. It is difficult however to contradict the opinion of coaches and officials who have seen more of both players than I have. It is also hard to deny the value of experience. I just hope the choice was not a lazy one, automatically ruling out the youngster simply because of his youth. Brave choices do pay off sometimes and this may have been one of those times. Perhaps we will never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 2,716 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 13 hours ago, Blusan Alamb said: Should have done better with the goals. He had 4 saves, and you want him saving a shot from 8 yards after the defence lets them square the ball that easy? He had no chance on the 2nd. First one was unlucky. He got there, but the shot was a cracker and bounced awkwardly. He had one bobble, but it happens to all keepers. He is perfectly fine. Don't feel nervy at all like when Willy is in goal. He has great reflexes and sees the ball well. Made a few good saves that most won't mention because they are over analysing every thing he did wrong due to his price tag. bigbluewillie, Ryan Fong, the wes and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,076 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 2 minutes ago, Thor said: He had 4 saves, and you want him saving a shot from 8 yards after the defence lets them square the ball that easy? He had no chance on the 2nd. First one was unlucky. He got there, but the shot was a cracker and bounced awkwardly. He had one bobble, but it happens to all keepers. He is perfectly fine. Don't feel nervy at all like when Willy is in goal. He has great reflexes and sees the ball well. Made a few good saves that most won't mention because they are over analysing every thing he did wrong due to his price tag. I think this is a sound assessment though I confess to a sneaking feeling that Marcin may have saved the first goal. Sneaking feelings don't add up to much however and we will never know for sure. Let's be patient with Kepa and give him all the support he needs. Blusan Alamb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,195 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 13 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: An acknowledgement that you had misunderstood my original post would have been nice. No I don't really think the club would have gone with an, in fact currently, 18 year old goalkeeper. I'm saying what I would have done. As you may not know, I am an avid watcher of our development squads and have seen a great deal of Marcin. Enough to form the opinion I've offered. I do not doubt that in a few years he might be first team quality, and i would NOT sell him of course. My main point was that with a ruthless board like Bayern have, or Juve have, or AM have or LPool now have, (and I will not add in RM, Barca, PSG, or Shitty as they just spend spend spend with basically no cap) we would not be in this position. Marina is SHIT, and for last 4 or 5 years, the board overall has been shit. They have spent tonnes of quid and made HORRIFIC decisions on both buys and sales. They have gotten punked like bishes by a handful of Serie A teams (Juve, Napoli, Inter, Roma, AC Milan). Zero chance I would go chasing my own goddamn tail with those cunts year after year right down to the wire of the window close. If they dont want to seriously talk business, FUCK EM. I never see Bayern or AM, etc get treated like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,076 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Vesper said: I do not doubt that ina few years he might be first team quality, and i would NOT sell him of course. My main point was that with a ruthless board like Bayern have, or Juve have, or AM have or LPool now have, (and I will not add in RM, Barca, PSG, or Shitty as they just spend spend spend with basically no cap) we would not be in this position. Marina is SHIT, and for last 4 or 5 years, the board overall has been shit. They have spent tonnes of quid and made HORRIFIC decisions on both buys and sales. They have gotten punked like bishes by a handful of Serie A teams (Juve, Napoli, Inter, Roma, AC Milan). Zero chance I would go chasing my own goddamn tail with those cunts year after year right down to the wire of the window close. If they dont want to seriously talk business, FUCK EM. I never see Bayern or AM, etc get treated like this. It is certainly true that we have made too many poor transfer decisions, over too long a period. Ultimately someone must be to blame for this but I do not have enough information about the functions and responsibilities of the people involved to pinpoint exactly who that is. Nor do you. Panic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,195 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: It is certainly true that we have made too many poor transfer decisions, over too long a period. Ultimately someone must be to blame for this but I do not have enough information about the functions and responsibilities of the people involved to pinpoint exactly who that is. Nor do you. I would call it a holistic and comprehensive systemic failure. It is clear that Marina is at the forefront, at least since Michael Emenalo left, and he certainly shares a lot of the blame too. Its run far too crony crony. I went to uni with many many people, and made friends from all over the globe. Most I would never let near the firm I work for (and I deal with money far in excess of what the transfer budget at Chelsea is). Chelsea FC PLC Board members: Chairman: Bruce Buck Marina Granovskaia Director She moved from the Russian capital to London shortly after the acquisition of Chelsea Football Club in 2003 and since 2010 has acted as a representative of the owner at the club and in support of the board of directors. She joined the board of Chelsea FC plc and the Football Club Board in June 2013 and is mainly responsible for player transactions. Guy Laurence Chief Executive Guy Laurence commenced as chief executive of Chelsea Football Club in February 2018. He has overall responsibility for the day-to-day operations of the club, including the continuing development of our commercial activities in the UK and around the world, focusing on increasing club revenues. Eugene Tenenbaum Director Eugene Tenenbaum was born in Ukraine in the former Soviet Union but moved to Canada at a young age. He is one of Roman Abramovich's closest associates and was formerly head of corporate finance at Sibneft, the oil company sold by Mr Abramovich in 2006. He is the managing director of MHC-Services Ltd and sits on the board at EVRAZ plc. Often portrayed as Abramovich’s most trusted advisor. Tenenbaum was the head of corporate finance at Sibneft and he probably concentrates on similar things at Chelsea — as has been pointed out in the comments, “corporate finance” (mergers & acquisitions, capital investments, debt management) does not necessarily translate directly to football operations at a football club. Tenenbaum is more likely to be involved in the overall financial health of the club (as a business entity) than player transfers themselves, but that could still include a role as an ultimate arbiter in holding the purse strings and watching the bottom line. David Barnard Director of Football Operations David joined Chelsea in July 2002. He has overall responsibility for the day-to-day administration of the Football Department, including transfer agreements and player contracts, ensuring compliance with the relevant football authorities. In addition, he is responsible for ensuring regulatory arrangements and administrative requirements for all club fixtures, including our pre and post-season tours. The club secretary, Barnard basically runs the day-to-day administrative (including transfer agreement and player contracts) and functional operations at the club. VICE-PRESIDENTS Sir Peter Harrison Joe Hemani Anthony Reeves Alan Spence SCOTT McLACHLAN Head scout. Chelsea have trimmed the scouting department down to a dozen or so scouts who cover specific regions from over 50 during the days of technical director Frank Arnesen. McLachlan takes their reports and compiles them into the club’s scouting database for others to use in their decision-making and discussions. Transfer spending under Abramovich (net) 2003-04: £151.4m 2004-05: £146.8m NO MORE BIG SPENDING 2005-06: £51.7m 2006-07: £32.2m 2007-08: £13.8m 2008-09: £12.7m PROFIT 2009-10: £23.6m 2010-11: £94.5m 2011-12: £57.7m 2012-13: £75.8m 2013-14 £47.6m 2014-15 £6.4m PROFIT 2015-16 £2.7m 2016-17 £21.9m 2017-18 £54.1m 2018-19 £75.3m (will be less as other players are sold) total £830m (will be around £800m or lower when all loans,sales are done this window) over 16 year time frame works out to £50m NET per year 36% of ALL money net spent was in the first 2 years take away those 2 years the average net spend over last 14 seasons (per year) is £35.8m to put into perspective, Jeff Bezos, over last rolling 12 months or so has made £215m in profit PER DAY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,076 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 10 hours ago, Vesper said: I would call it a holistic and comprehensive systemic failure. It is clear that Marina is at the forefront, at least since Michael Emenalo left, and he certainly shares a lot of the blame too. Its run far too crony crony. I went to uni with many many people, and made friends from all over the globe. Most I would never let near the firm I work for (and I deal with money far in excess of what the transfer budget at Chelsea is). Chelsea FC PLC Board members: Chairman: Bruce Buck Marina Granovskaia Director She moved from the Russian capital to London shortly after the acquisition of Chelsea Football Club in 2003 and since 2010 has acted as a representative of the owner at the club and in support of the board of directors. She joined the board of Chelsea FC plc and the Football Club Board in June 2013 and is mainly responsible for player transactions. Guy Laurence Chief Executive Guy Laurence commenced as chief executive of Chelsea Football Club in February 2018. He has overall responsibility for the day-to-day operations of the club, including the continuing development of our commercial activities in the UK and around the world, focusing on increasing club revenues. Eugene Tenenbaum Director Eugene Tenenbaum was born in Ukraine in the former Soviet Union but moved to Canada at a young age. He is one of Roman Abramovich's closest associates and was formerly head of corporate finance at Sibneft, the oil company sold by Mr Abramovich in 2006. He is the managing director of MHC-Services Ltd and sits on the board at EVRAZ plc. Often portrayed as Abramovich’s most trusted advisor. Tenenbaum was the head of corporate finance at Sibneft and he probably concentrates on similar things at Chelsea — as has been pointed out in the comments, “corporate finance” (mergers & acquisitions, capital investments, debt management) does not necessarily translate directly to football operations at a football club. Tenenbaum is more likely to be involved in the overall financial health of the club (as a business entity) than player transfers themselves, but that could still include a role as an ultimate arbiter in holding the purse strings and watching the bottom line. David Barnard Director of Football Operations David joined Chelsea in July 2002. He has overall responsibility for the day-to-day administration of the Football Department, including transfer agreements and player contracts, ensuring compliance with the relevant football authorities. In addition, he is responsible for ensuring regulatory arrangements and administrative requirements for all club fixtures, including our pre and post-season tours. The club secretary, Barnard basically runs the day-to-day administrative (including transfer agreement and player contracts) and functional operations at the club. VICE-PRESIDENTS Sir Peter Harrison Joe Hemani Anthony Reeves Alan Spence SCOTT McLACHLAN Head scout. Chelsea have trimmed the scouting department down to a dozen or so scouts who cover specific regions from over 50 during the days of technical director Frank Arnesen. McLachlan takes their reports and compiles them into the club’s scouting database for others to use in their decision-making and discussions. Transfer spending under Abramovich (net) 2003-04: £151.4m 2004-05: £146.8m NO MORE BIG SPENDING 2005-06: £51.7m 2006-07: £32.2m 2007-08: £13.8m 2008-09: £12.7m PROFIT 2009-10: £23.6m 2010-11: £94.5m 2011-12: £57.7m 2012-13: £75.8m 2013-14 £47.6m 2014-15 £6.4m PROFIT 2015-16 £2.7m 2016-17 £21.9m 2017-18 £54.1m 2018-19 £75.3m (will be less as other players are sold) total £830m (will be around £800m or lower when all loans,sales are done this window) over 16 year time frame works out to £50m NET per year 36% of ALL money net spent was in the first 2 years take away those 2 years the average net spend over last 14 seasons (per year) is £35.8m to put into perspective, Jeff Bezos, over last rolling 12 months or so has made £215m in profit PER DAY None of which tells you who chooses the transfer targets, at which point in the process these names are chosen or updated, who determines the maximum spend for individual players, who sets the overall strategy, and who assigns the total budget. Yet, despite not knowing anything, you do know who is to blame. You're not being very convincing. Panic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,195 Posted August 19, 2018 Share Posted August 19, 2018 15 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: None of which tells you who chooses the transfer targets, at which point in the process these names are chosen or updated, who determines the maximum spend for individual players, who sets the overall strategy, and who assigns the total budget. Yet, despite not knowing anything, you do know who is to blame. You're not being very convincing. If you cannot glean who is scouting, who is choosing targets, who negotiates, and who balances the books, from not just all that but also years of windows, I dont know what to tell you. There is not some secret cabal. Those listed, insofar as their listed duties and roles overlap into the signings arena, are to blame. I laid out the entire hierarchy of the club. Add Roman into the mix too, obviously. Supermonkey92 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,076 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 13 hours ago, Vesper said: If you cannot glean who is scouting, who is choosing targets, who negotiates, and who balances the books, from not just all that but also years of windows, I dont know what to tell you. There is not some secret cabal. Those listed, insofar as their listed duties and roles overlap into the signings arena, are to blame. I laid out the entire hierarchy of the club. Add Roman into the mix too, obviously. Well, I can't do that. What you might tell me as a result of that admission is up to you. What I'd like you to tell me is that I'm a logical person who is not prone to believing whatever the hell I want to believe based on nothing but a pile of unsubstantiated guesses. Ryan Fong 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,195 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 1 minute ago, OhForAGreavsie said: Well, I can't do that. What you might tell me as a result of that admission is up to you, What I'd like you to tell me is that I'm a logical person who is not prone to believing whatever the hell I want to believe on nothing but a pile of unsupportable assumptions. There is no admission from my end. I listed all responsible. Why you are being so obtuse is beyond me. I am not going to pat you on the back for your wilfulness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,076 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, Vesper said: There is no admission from my end. I listed all responsible. Why you are being so obtuse is beyond me. I am not going to pat you on the back for your wilfulness. To be clear the admission I spoke of was my own. Let me take a different tack. Tell me clearly, do you think Marina chooses transfer targets? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,195 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 19 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: To be clear the admission I spoke of was my own. Let me take a different tack. Tell me clearly, do you think Marina chooses transfer targets? Yes, I think she gets info from the scouting department (Scott McLachlan, who has slashed our number of scouts), some input from the manager, and along with David Barnard (contracts, etc) and Eugene Tenenbaum (the money man) they then decide who to go for and those two also keep her on a leash in terms of the money spent. I also think that Roman dives in whenever he is frustrated from any angle, of feels Marina is not closing the deal. There needs to be a football savvy technical director put in to place to really take over a lot of the targeting. It is a mess atm, IMHO. The Serie A teams have just bollocksed us for 3 straight windows now. Emenalo was to blame for some of that as well, and I am sure he was the main driver behind selling KDB and Salah and Lukaku (along with Mourinho), with no buy back clauses (that pressure came from the money side, as the buying clubs surely wanted even lower prices if there was a buyback clause inserted). I compare our transfer actions to the other top clubs, and we seem to always be in the weeds, especially if we are talking Barca, AM, RM, Bayern (the gold standard in tightly-run ships), Juve, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,076 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Vesper said: Yes, I think she gets info from the scouting department (Scott McLachlan, who has slashed our number of scouts), some input from the manager, and along with David Barnard (contracts, etc) and Eugene Tenenbaum (the money man) they then decide who to go for and those two also keep her on a leash in terms of the money spent. I also think that Roman dives in whenever he is frustrated from any angle, of feels Marina is not closing the deal. There needs to be a football savvy technical director put in to place to really take over a lot of the targeting. It is a mess atm, IMHO. The Serie A teams have just bollocksed us for 3 straight windows now. Emenalo was to blame for some of that as well, and I am sure he was the main driver behind selling KDB and Salah and Lukaku (along with Mourinho), with no buy back clauses (that pressure came from the money side, as the buying clubs surely wanted even lower prices if there was a buyback clause inserted). I compare our transfer actions to the other top clubs, and we seem to always be in the weeds, especially if we are talking Barca, AM, RM, Bayern (the gold standard in tightly-run ships), Juve, etc. Sticking to the selection of transfer targets. Why do you think it is Graniskova and Tenenbaum who jointly select the targets and what evidence do you have for that belief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,195 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 7 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: Sticking to the selection of transfer targets. Why do you think it is Graniskova and Tenement who jointly select the targets and what evidence do you have for that belief? I never said they jointly selected, Tenenbaum is the money man, so I am sure he has some imput (ie, forget Mbappe, lolol) but he would be much more of a 'No, this wont work' type than a OMG, we need to Leon Bailey! type. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhForAGreavsie 6,076 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Vesper said: Yes, I think she gets info from the scouting department (Scott McLachlan, who has slashed our number of scouts), some input from the manager, and along with David Barnard (contracts, etc) and Eugene Tenenbaum (the money man) they then decide who to go for 1 hour ago, Vesper said: I never said they jointly selected, Tenenbaum is the money man, so I am sure he has some imput (ie, forget Mbappe, lolol) but he would be much more of a 'No, this wont work' type than a OMG, we need to Leon Bailey! type. You must be trolling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vesper 30,195 Posted August 20, 2018 Share Posted August 20, 2018 6 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said: You must be trolling. Truly wtf. I have better things to do with my life than troll anonymous chat boards. You are simply not making sense this whole time. I am done with this subject with you. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calculatingInfinity 1,472 Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Another not so great goal conceded by him today. Had his hands on it again, but somehow his wrists just seems too weak again to keep it out half the time. Blusan Alamb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magic Lamps 11,692 Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, calculatingInfinity said: Another not so great goal conceded by him today. Had his hands on it again, but somehow his wrists just seems too weak again to keep it out half the time. yup that looked suspicious again. I hope he settles his nerves at some point...but when you look at how Alisson handled himself yesterday you start thinking what this price tag does to a head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ulvhedin 526 Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, calculatingInfinity said: Another not so great goal conceded by him today. Had his hands on it again, but somehow his wrists just seems too weak again to keep it out half the time. Had also very Caballer-esque pass in first half, luckliy for him opponent didn't catch the ball, but the decision to play pass like that was very stupid Blusan Alamb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alabama 1,992 Posted August 26, 2018 Share Posted August 26, 2018 Lol... Loads of criticism against this young lad...give him a break...what was Luiz doing all day long ball watching... bigbluewillie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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