Mateo Kovacic

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11 hours ago, killer1257 said:

I think he did well. Still not at his best, but much more productive than Mount.
Sadly, he injured himself

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Productive and Kovacic don't belong in the same sentence. 

[killer1257 3,282]

Productive and Kovacic don't belong in the same sentence. 

He had an assist, so I would call it productive

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8 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

He had an assist, so I would call it productive

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That was only his 6th assist for us in 107 games and his first in all competitions since Spurs away last season. Even Mount has had more assists (and goals) than Kovacic in less games for us. 

[killer1257 3,282]

That was only his 6th assist for us in 107 games and his first in all competitions since Spurs away last season. Even Mount has had more assists (and goals) than Kovacic in less games for us. 

Mount used to play for us as a no. 10,while Kova was very defensive due to the fact that he had to protect Jorgi's ass. Give him a more free role like yesterday and his assists will improve. Mount obviously has a good shot and that is why he scores goals, but most of his assists are from set pieces. Kova is more creative than Mount. Kova last season had more assists than Mount from normal play (without set pieces).

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14 minutes ago, killer1257 said:

Mount used to play for us as a no. 10,while Kova was very defensive due to the fact that he had to protect Jorgi's ass. Give him a more free role like yesterday and his assists will improve. Mount obviously has a good shot and that is why he scores goals, but most of his assists are from set pieces. Kova is more creative than Mount. Kova last season had more assists than Mount from normal play (without set pieces).

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One assist from Kovacic yesterday and you're shouting from the rooftop. If he can suddenly provide assists and even score goals on a regular basis, then great but otherwise I am not convinced at all. This is a player who has only 11 assists (and 5 goals) in all competitions since the start of the 2015/16 season. His most productive years were for Inter in 2014/15 and Dinamo Zagreb in 2011/12.

Also, if you're gonna say Kovacic will do X, Y, Z better when played in position X, then one could argue the same about Mount, who has said and looks so much better as one of the 3 midfielders in a 4-3-3 as opposed to a #10 or a winger. 

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

9 hours ago, Jason said:

One assist from Kovacic yesterday and you're shouting from the rooftop. If he can suddenly provide assists and even score goals on a regular basis, then great but otherwise I am not convinced at all. This is a player who has only 11 assists (and 5 goals) in all competitions since the start of the 2015/16 season. His most productive years were for Inter in 2014/15 and Dinamo Zagreb in 2011/12.

Also, if you're gonna say Kovacic will do X, Y, Z better when played in position X, then one could argue the same about Mount, who has said and looks so much better as one of the 3 midfielders in a 4-3-3 as opposed to a #10 or a winger. 

Totally agree with everything you've said there.

Mount v Burnley was better than any performance Kovacic has put in for us since maybe the start of last season and was on par with his game v Bayern. In fact better than any performance any midfielder has put in for us this season or last perhaps bar that Kovacic v Bayern where I felt he was very good.  Both views make sense but Kovacic hasn't shown the goals or assists on a regular basis and he's in his best years as a player. Yes he plays further back in 4231 and is a different player in a 433 but the guy used to be a number 10 and even since being played deeper hasn't managed to affect game as much as he can with his skillset and obvious ability in the final third. Its frustrating because he should be able to get 5+ league goals a season and 5-8+ assists a season. I know those numbers are perhaps little but for someone with his obvious qualities from his time at Dinamo, Inter, Real and here, he should have more. 

9 hours ago, killer1257 said:

Mount used to play for us as a no. 10,while Kova was very defensive due to the fact that he had to protect Jorgi's ass. Give him a more free role like yesterday and his assists will improve. Mount obviously has a good shot and that is why he scores goals, but most of his assists are from set pieces. Kova is more creative than Mount. Kova last season had more assists than Mount from normal play (without set pieces).

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Very defensive? Because of Jorginho? And the first 4 months under Frank last season when it was Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount in a MF 3, was he very defensive? No not a chance, just another excuse to deflect the blame and say its someone else's fault as usual on here when its so obvious a player of his ability and attributes can contribute more in that area. Also the free role thing is bullshit because nobody in this team has a free role. Nobody. Barely any teams play with such a way, Messi, Ronaldo and maybe Neymar the only players in world football who get a such luxury and even then its not continuously happening every week. Kovacic definitely should be more creative than Mount or you'd hope he would be with his skill sets but his numbers, aren't great or a good argument to use in regards to this.

We should be happy to have such depth in MF though, Mount, Kovacic, Kante and Havertz can all play on the sides in a 433 next to Jorginho or Kante if hes holding.

I know Mount divides opinion but this season so far he has been good and the Burnley game was exceptional. Jorginho and Mount seem to be scapegoats regardless of how they perform and quite frankly it is embarrassing. Someone said Mount played average or looked average in that position in a 433 after the Burnley game a few weeks ago which goes to prove how people let this sort of vendetta against Mount cloud their judgement regardless and quite frankly it is embarrassing as mentioned before. Yes he could of done better last season, no doubt, who couldn't have? But he's earned his place in the squad undoubtedly and this season his spot in the starting 11 has been justified in recent weeks. 

So if set play assists aren't going to matter or be seen as something that shouldn't be hugely considered what about Ziyech's? Because he will undoubtedly get a good number from set plays also because his delivery is fantastic. This is what I mean, its always been one thing for one player and not for another. Since the likes of Mikel, Ivanovic, Cahill... players who if they played well or weren't as flashy or weren't the best players in the world or team, instantly the criticism was 1000 times worse. 

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

While I do not think Kovacic was particularly good today he also was not terrible. He provided an assist but should have scored a goal for sure. He might rediscover some form if he plays more often again. But i could definitely see Kovacic working better with Havertz than Mount cos he is on a similar technical level. Mount looks like a fish out of water when combining with technical genuises like havertz, pulsic and ziyech around him. That being said I dont doubt that Mount will always score more goals and provide more assists, simply because of the way he is wired. mount is a direct player. kovacic like willian has the problem that he stays too long on the ball and lets opportunities pass him by. his ability to break the press and skip lines in midfield with his exceptional dribbling is great but it will always cost us attacking opponents. Mount on the other hand usually goes for the shot or direct pass if he sees it but often fials to execute it accurately enough

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48 minutes ago, Magic Lamps said:

But i could definitely see Kovacic working better with Havertz than Mount cos he is on a similar technical level. Mount looks like a fish out of water when combining with technical genuises like havertz, pulsic and ziyech around him.

I know you're not a fan of Mount but you talked as if he has Bakayoko's technical level ability...

Mount has already played games with Pulisic, Ziyech and Havertz and doesn't even look out of place. 

[NikkiCFC 7,950]

Vida played today positive on Covid for Croatia. Kova was on the bench full game.

[Magic Lamps 11,653]

14 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Vida played today positive on Covid for Croatia. Kova was on the bench full game.

just great. infected by a useless player in a usefless friendly

Vida is a completely pointless  anyway. probably the worst defender i have ever seen in a wc final. aint tall, can't jump, can't tackle, is slow, has poor positioning and has the most unflattering haircut you can have with such a horse face and pattern hair loss.

[communicate 2,703]

On 11/9/2020 at 3:24 AM, OneMoSalah said:

Totally agree with everything you've said there.

Mount v Burnley was better than any performance Kovacic has put in for us since maybe the start of last season and was on par with his game v Bayern. In fact better than any performance any midfielder has put in for us this season or last perhaps bar that Kovacic v Bayern where I felt he was very good.  Both views make sense but Kovacic hasn't shown the goals or assists on a regular basis and he's in his best years as a player. Yes he plays further back in 4231 and is a different player in a 433 but the guy used to be a number 10 and even since being played deeper hasn't managed to affect game as much as he can with his skillset and obvious ability in the final third. Its frustrating because he should be able to get 5+ league goals a season and 5-8+ assists a season. I know those numbers are perhaps little but for someone with his obvious qualities from his time at Dinamo, Inter, Real and here, he should have more. 

Very defensive? Because of Jorginho? And the first 4 months under Frank last season when it was Jorginho, Kovacic and Mount in a MF 3, was he very defensive? No not a chance, just another excuse to deflect the blame and say its someone else's fault as usual on here when its so obvious a player of his ability and attributes can contribute more in that area. Also the free role thing is bullshit because nobody in this team has a free role. Nobody. Barely any teams play with such a way, Messi, Ronaldo and maybe Neymar the only players in world football who get a such luxury and even then its not continuously happening every week. Kovacic definitely should be more creative than Mount or you'd hope he would be with his skill sets but his numbers, aren't great or a good argument to use in regards to this.

We should be happy to have such depth in MF though, Mount, Kovacic, Kante and Havertz can all play on the sides in a 433 next to Jorginho or Kante if hes holding.

I know Mount divides opinion but this season so far he has been good and the Burnley game was exceptional. Jorginho and Mount seem to be scapegoats regardless of how they perform and quite frankly it is embarrassing. Someone said Mount played average or looked average in that position in a 433 after the Burnley game a few weeks ago which goes to prove how people let this sort of vendetta against Mount cloud their judgement regardless and quite frankly it is embarrassing as mentioned before. Yes he could of done better last season, no doubt, who couldn't have? But he's earned his place in the squad undoubtedly and this season his spot in the starting 11 has been justified in recent weeks. 

So if set play assists aren't going to matter or be seen as something that shouldn't be hugely considered what about Ziyech's? Because he will undoubtedly get a good number from set plays also because his delivery is fantastic. This is what I mean, its always been one thing for one player and not for another. Since the likes of Mikel, Ivanovic, Cahill... players who if they played well or weren't as flashy or weren't the best players in the world or team, instantly the criticism was 1000 times worse. 

Mount is what I consider unaesthetic player. Their game is not eye pleasing and silky. This type of player usually tend to receive tons of stick from fans. 

Kovacic on the other hand is a very2 curious player. Silky smooth and Technically brilliant, but pretty much useless in final 3rd. He probably will never produce number for us but I doesn't matter, somebody need to bring the ball to the front player and Kovacic is just happened to be very good at it. Everyone last year was talking about how good Thiago for Bayern was. His number was actually pretty mediocre. 

[kellzfresh 7,229]

8 hours ago, communicate said:

Mount is what I consider unaesthetic player. Their game is not eye pleasing and silky. This type of player usually tend to receive tons of stick from fans. 

Kovacic on the other hand is a very2 curious player. Silky smooth and Technically brilliant, but pretty much useless in final 3rd. He probably will never produce number for us but I doesn't matter, somebody need to bring the ball to the front player and Kovacic is just happened to be very good at it. Everyone last year was talking about how good Thiago for Bayern was. His number was actually pretty mediocre. 

I agree with what you said, but Thiago is a great passer and that separates him from people like Kovacic. Thiago can give first time passes at accurate speed and dominate a game. Passing is the fastest way to progress the ball forward, especially to unlock defences for people like Werner to run in behind. Those first time passes thiago gave to runners like Alfonso davies and Coman to cross for lewandoski tap ins were vital.

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

Technically brilliant refers to having an abundance of qualities. What does Kovacic have other than dribbling? Virtually nothing. Being a silky smooth dribbler doesn't mean anything if you don't have vision or an attacking aptitude along with it. 

[communicate 2,703]

7 hours ago, kellzfresh said:

I agree with what you said, but Thiago is a great passer and that separates him from people like Kovacic. Thiago can give first time passes at accurate speed and dominate a game. Passing is the fastest way to progress the ball forward, especially to unlock defences for people like Werner to run in behind. Those first time passes thiago gave to runners like Alfonso davies and Coman to cross for lewandoski tap ins were vital.

You are absolutely right saying that Thiago is better passer. But my point is if we want to talk about number especially g/a, last season kova and Thiago number is actually quite similar.

It is because both played in similar role and position and their game is quite similar in a sense they are better deeper rather than closer to goal. 

[NikkiCFC 7,950]

Just scored. This is rare.

[killer1257 3,282]

Another goal for Kovacic

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[Vesper 28,801]

wow

Kova with a brace

if HE starts scoring too, well damn

league may be starting to get in range for for the taking

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2 goals in a game? 2020 just got weirder.