Mason Mount

[Jase 43,479]

3 hours ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yeah he is young still but it depends though.

Normally with these more creative players who play off the front or as a more advanced midfielder, even when they are younger, you can see the ability or the potential and things like if they can see those runs and execute the final pass.

I am yet to be fully convinced he will be a top creative player due to this. I still think he is a bit safe. Think this is why people will also make the envitable Oscar comparisons. Oscar was comfortable at many things but he never ever would of made that jump to be a top top player because he never had that final pass as well as the consistency. 

That could change but again I dont see him in the mould of like Dele Alli either who is more of a rounded midfield player whos major contribution to a team is going to be goals.

Inclined to agree on the Oscar comparison (I did mention that) for now but Mount did produce a good amount of goals and assists over at Vitesse and Derby and while his numbers this season haven't been great, I believe that he can be at least a 10-goal & 10-assist (maybe even at least 15) player once he develops his game and improves his consistency in the long run. Do think he's suffered a bit this season due to various reasons - (a) being overplayed, (b) being used in different roles [hard to get consistency when your position is being changed around, even if it's a minor one], (c) still adjusting to a higher level than he's played before, (d) coming into a team that don't have the "finished article" players in the attacking areas yet. Also, I know this is a cliche and I'm not saying Mount will achieve what he did but I don't think anyone thought Lampard would do things that he did in his career - being a goalscorer, capable of providing assists, being a creator (Lampard's creativity was severely underrated) etc. Mount isn't your average player as he has qualities in him and who knows, through hard work and time, he might just put them all together and become one of the best players around. 

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

15 minutes ago, Jason said:

Inclined to agree on the Oscar comparison (I did mention that) for now but Mount did produce a good amount of goals and assists over at Vitesse and Derby and while his numbers this season haven't been great, I believe that he can be at least a 10-goal & 10-assist (maybe even at least 15) player once he develops his game and improves his consistency in the long run. Do think he's suffered a bit this season due to various reasons - (a) being overplayed, (b) being used in different roles [hard to get consistency when your position is being changed around, even if it's a minor one], (c) still adjusting to a higher level than he's played before, (d) coming into a team that don't have the "finished article" players in the attacking areas yet. Also, I know this is a cliche and I'm not saying Mount will achieve what he did but I don't think anyone thought Lampard would do things that he did in his career - being a goalscorer, capable of providing assists, being a creator (Lampard's creativity was severely underrated) etc. Mount isn't your average player as he has qualities in him and who knows, through hard work and time, he might just put them all together and become one of the best players around. 

Perhaps but I think other than that one season at Vitesse his assist rate isnt that great, dont think he got a huge bunch for Derby IIRC was more goals. He has to become better at that side of the game (inconsistent end product is as big a reason as to why he hasnt got that many as a team that is the unfinished article) as well as the goals which he seems to be able to get although this season he is at a higher level.

He has been overplayed I will agree as well as being played through a shit spell when FL could of took him out the firing line and playing in a team that can still improve (ironically his position off the front can be improved on and hopefully Ziyech will be a real option there as I think he will be more productive centrally) but I think he needs to show more creativity. In both the big games and the smaller games for us. Its no good just being useful as a player who plays in an advanced position who will put a shift in and willing to press as weve said, yes those things are useful but you expect it from every player regardless. If we become a title challenging team and he hasnt developed that creative side many will get even more frustrated than him and a ruthless manager will bench or get rid of him. 

He can potentially be a 10+ goal and assist player in time but using Dutch league and Championship performances as a barometer isnt exactly necessarily going to help ease those doubts for many. Although I do see it both ways.

Bar the 2 big games, the Burnley (at the Bridge) and Leicester matches, Mason hasnt impressed me for a long while.. probably since the reverse game v Burnley at Turf Moor. He has played virtually every game all season and for arguably 2 to 3 months was a passenger and a huge reason why we struggled in an attacking sense. He hasnt scored since December in the league and only has 3 assists since October (which for someone who also takes set pieces and freekicks isnt exactly good is it?).

Yes he deserves an opportuinity to grow and progress as he is still only 21 but the comparisons with Oscar at times is even off because Oscar would consistently score more goals and get more assists at times too.

[Jase 43,479]

7 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Perhaps but I think other than that one season at Vitesse his assist rate isnt that great, dont think he got a huge bunch for Derby IIRC was more goals. He has to become better at that side of the game (inconsistent end product is as big a reason as to why he hasnt got that many as a team that is the unfinished article) as well as the goals which he seems to be able to get although this season he is at a higher level.

He had 13 goals and 10 assists in 39 games at Vitesse.

8 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Bar the 2 big games, the Burnley (at the Bridge) and Leicester matches, Mason hasnt impressed me for a long while.. probably since the reverse game v Burnley at Turf Moor. He has played virtually every game all season and for arguably 2 to 3 months was a passenger and a huge reason why we struggled in an attacking sense. He hasnt scored since December in the league and only has 3 assists since October (which for someone who also takes set pieces and freekicks isnt exactly good is it?).

Being overplayed may be a reason why. Was arguably not wise of Lampard to overplay a 21 year old in his first season of playing at the highest level.

10 minutes ago, OneMoSalah said:

Yes he deserves an opportuinity to grow and progress as he is still only 21 but the comparisons with Oscar at times is even off because Oscar would consistently score more goals and get more assists at times too.

Oscar did score more goals and get more assists but he didn't do it at a consistent rate. If you go through his record, you will see it's 1 goal here, 1 assist there across 40-50 games and it'll only look impressive when you total them up. 

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

22 minutes ago, Jason said:

He had 13 goals and 10 assists in 39 games at Vitesse.

Being overplayed may be a reason why. Was arguably not wise of Lampard to overplay a 21 year old in his first season of playing at the highest level.

Oscar did score more goals and get more assists but he didn't do it at a consistent rate. If you go through his record, you will see it's 1 goal here, 1 assist there across 40-50 games and it'll only look impressive when you total them up. 

I know he had double figures for Vitesse in each but I dont think he had at Derby. 

Again though, as we have said all season Lampard has overplayed him and neglected others but again the onus to perform falls on the player, I wouldnt say he was flogged as such but more that he was be selected when playing poorly. He can do better as weve seen this season but I get the feeling he will be a streaky player for now few good weeks then some poor for another season or two which is frustrating. Its an age thing as well but I still think as we seen at the beginning of the season he has a lot more than what he has shown before the last month or so.

Re Oscar: Perhaps but there were patches where even he showed a bit of consistency at spells and he hadnt had the luxury of playing in Europe or being older when we got him in the team. Then when he was say 21 or 22 we expected more from him. Mount and Oscar do have a lot of similarities too as players, boths 10s, slighter players who like to try play quick 1 and 2 touch combinations, regular set piece takers (although corners from both need/needed improved as well), like to get into the box, try to score goals.

Its an inevitable comparison before taking into account the usefulness in big games more for traits youd not necessarily expect or want to see your being recognised for in bigger games.

 

 

 

[NikkiCFC 8,058]

1 hour ago, OneMoSalah said:

Perhaps but I think other than that one season at Vitesse his assist rate isnt that great, dont think he got a huge bunch for Derby IIRC was more goals. 

He hasnt scored since December in the league and only has 3 assists since October (which for someone who also takes set pieces and freekicks isnt exactly good is it?).

I agree with everything you said about Mount. 

And yes his numbers haven't been that great. At least not for our standard. 

Last season with Derby 8 goals and 5 assists in Championship. 

Gallagher already on 6 goals and 8 assists in less minutes. 

Mount started season very well and played good last two games but he has just one goal in the last 26 games for Chelsea! Also 4 assists this season all came after set pieces (Leicester twice for Rudiger, Jorginho's goal against Arsenal after Leno mistake and short corner against Burnley for Pulisic header). Not one assist from open play.

Let's see how he plays in the next couple of months. 

[Jase 43,479]

26 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

I agree with everything you said about Mount. 

And yes his numbers haven't been that great. At least not for our standard. 

Last season with Derby 8 goals and 5 assists in Championship. 

Gallagher already on 6 goals and 8 assists in less minutes. 

Mount started season very well and played good last two games but he has just one goal in the last 26 games for Chelsea! Also 4 assists this season all came after set pieces (Leicester twice for Rudiger, Jorginho's goal against Arsenal after Leno mistake and short corner against Burnley for Pulisic header). Not one assist from open play.

Let's see how he plays in the next couple of months. 

Actually, Mount had 9 goals in the Championship, including 1 in the play-off.

That assist for Pulisic at Burnley wasn't a short corner. Mount took the corner, one of the Burnley players cleared it straight to him, and he then crossed for Pulisic to score. Think that goes down as an assist from open play. 

Not disputing your overall point but in some ways, an attacking player's assist stat lives and dies by whether the other player can convert the chance or not and we don't exactly have a clinical goalscorer in the team. 

[NikkiCFC 8,058]

2 hours ago, Jason said:

Actually, Mount had 9 goals in the Championship, including 1 in the play-off.

That assist for Pulisic at Burnley wasn't a short corner. Mount took the corner, one of the Burnley players cleared it straight to him, and he then crossed for Pulisic to score. Think that goes down as an assist from open play. 

Stop cherry picking  

Burnley situation is still related to corner. My point is if he's not our set piece taker he would have zero assists. 

[Jase 43,479]

34 minutes ago, NikkiCFC said:

Stop cherry picking  

Burnley situation is still related to corner. My point is if he's not our set piece taker he would have zero assists. 

If you had gotten the facts right, I wouldn't have quoted you at all.  

[Beigl 1,387]

English Oscar, but probably worse than the brazilian in most aspects of the game. 

[Henrique 9,133]

"That Marty Mount kid is not good enough will end up at Gillingham". 

 

[LAM09 6,783]

I just don't know where his end product has gone. There actually seemed to be something about him at Vitesse, but he can't even seem to shoot anymore.

[MoroccanBlue 5,320]

1 minute ago, LAM09 said:

I just don't know where his end product has gone. There actually seemed to be something about him at Vitesse, but he can't even seem to shoot anymore.

Inexperience. Least I’m hoping. No other explanation to where his finishing ability from the start of the season went 

Seems Leicester fans are complaining the same thing with Maddison 

[OneMoSalah 8,785]

As mentioned in previous page. End product. Needs to be consistent regardless of if you are 21 or 30 in these games. For a number 10, all the running and pressing and tackling in the world will not get your team anywhere v the likes of Bayern etc.

[Jase 43,479]

11 minutes ago, LAM09 said:

I just don't know where his end product has gone. There actually seemed to be something about him at Vitesse, but he can't even seem to shoot anymore.

I wonder if Lampard is restricting him by turning him into a tactical player. Mount just becomes totally braindead in the final third.

[Tomo 21,733]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

I wonder if Lampard is restricting him by turning him into a tactical player. Mount just becomes totally braindead in the final third.

Mount has said in many interviews it's his Dad that's drilled it into him that he can't be a "luxury" number 10.

[Jase 43,479]

Just now, Tomo said:

Mount has said in many interviews it's his Dad that's drilled it into him that he can't be a "luxury" number 10.

Not saying Mount shouldn't do both sides of the game but it seems like the creative aspect of his game is suffering because of the tactical side of things. 

[LAM09 6,783]

Inexperience. Least I’m hoping. No other explanation to where his finishing ability from the start of the season went 

Seems Leicester fans are complaining the same thing with Maddison 

We can hope. I actually had the most faith in him becoming the heir to Lampard (to a lesser extent ofc).

 

 

 

I wonder if Lampard is restricting him by turning him into a tactical player. Mount just becomes totally braindead in the final third.

 

It wouldn't be surprising. Seems like any sort of press is constantly lead by him for starters, which is having an adverse effect.

[Henrique 9,133]

"Mason Mount 7 Intelligent performance from Chelsea’s likeliest source of a goal. Took aim several times and almost punished one poor Neuer clearance."

I found this shit in a Guardian article with players rating.

Im pissed! Anyone who thinks Mount had a "intelligent performance" and was "likeliest source of goal" dont have a clue about football.

Anyone who thinks Mount is any good is hopeless.