Mason Mount

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

On 17/11/2022 at 22:27, robsblubot said:

What you guys at? 😅
Mount is about to sign a huge contract and will remain the centre of the team for years to come. Don't worry -- he will play.

Sometimes I forget Mount is only 23. I for one am excited to see how he improves and becomes a better player.

My favourite old chestnut again. In terms of their basic talent level, 23-year-olds don't improve. While we remain a side struggling to reach a higher level, Mason will remain an important player for us. If we reach that level Mason will no longer be a key player, but he may find a niche roll in what would then be a much better squad.

Edited November 26, 2022 by OhForAGreavsie

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

On 07/09/2022 at 08:55, Jype said:

or uninterested

Thank you!!! If you ever spot me in a pub, come claim a free drink.

The whole world has forgotten the word uninterested because they think disinterested means the same thing and makes them sound cleverer. Well originally disinterested did not mean uninterested. These days however, after being so widely misused, for so long, it has to be accepted that it does mean uninterested. Indeed, dictionaries now give both its original meaning and the uninterested definition when you look up the word disinterested.

Still hurts my head though when people say disinterested, when what they really mean is uninterested. I wonder how many of those people know what disinterested really means?

Edited November 26, 2022 by OhForAGreavsie

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

On 07/09/2022 at 08:55, Jype said:

Either way it would do him good to sit out for a few games and sort out his head, though if the alternatives are Pulisic and Ziyech then I don't fucking know anymore.

And you've put your finger on our problem. Mase is an important player for us because our squad is what it is. If we ever build a squad capable of challenging for the title again, Mason's role, and importance, will change. I've previously used the phrase that I don't think we can be good without Mase, but that I don't believe we can be great with him. When Mason starts, we see the shortcomings and find them frustrating. When he doesn't, the current squad has no better alternatives and we see why he has to start. 

A better squad won't need Mase to start but, when he does, it will show off what he can do better than the current one does.

Edited November 26, 2022 by OhForAGreavsie

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

On 18/10/2022 at 17:18, King Kante said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/mason-mount-doubters-a-puzzle-to-Chelsea-boss-graham-potter/ar-AA135JS6

And yet there are still people who fail to realise how good Mount is and want to slag him off as soon as he goes a few games without a goal or assist. 

I have to admit that I am a Mason doubter but, for me, it's not about goal count or assist count. It's about opportunity conversion. In my opinion he too often nearly gets it right rather than actually gets it right. How many times have we seen Mason's grimace of frustration when he hasn't quite pulled off whatever it is he just tried to do? Frequently accompanied by a hands to face gesture. No one gets it right 100% of the time. No one even gets it right 75% of the time but based on my own impression when watching Mason, he does not get it right often enough.

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

53 minutes ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

I have to admit that I am a Mason doubter but, for me, it's not about goal count or assist count. It's about opportunity conversion. In my opinion he too often nearly gets it right rather than actually gets it right. How many times have we seen Mason's grimace of frustration when he hasn't quite pulled off whatever it is he just tried to do? Frequently accompanied by a hands to face gesture. No one gets it right 100% of the time. No one even gets it right 75% of the time but based on my own impression when watching Mason, he does not get it right often enough.

Shooting practice required. One to one coaching from Zola (the original stay behind after training player until it was perfect player) wouldn't put much of a dent in his wages. Gianfranco would probably do it for free !

[NikkiCFC 8,285]

4 hours ago, Reddish-Blue said:

Let's put it this way, no other top club would be offering Mount anywhere near 200k a week. 

We really are becoming a mid table side by overpaying average talent...

This is true but I'm afraid we'll give him what he wants - 300k. Which would be suicidal move. Just because we made mistake with Sterling doesn't mean we need to make another one. 

 

2 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

And you've put your finger on our problem. Mase is an important player for us because our squad is what it is. If we ever build a squad capable of challenging for the title again, Mason's role, and importance, will change. I've previously used the phrase that I don't think we can be good without Mase, but that I don't believe we can be great with him. When Mason starts, we see the shortcomings and find them frustrating. When he doesn't, the current squad has no better alternatives and we see why he has to start. 

A better squad won't need Mase to start but, when he does, it will show off what he can do better than the current one does.

This. I said 3 years ago we are not winning title with him in starting 11. This is his 4th season in Chelsea and we are nowhere near. It will be the same in the future. 

He is so criticised by England fans. I checked last night twitter, Daily mail comment section, red cafe...

[robsblubot 3,595]

5 hours ago, OhForAGreavsie said:

My favourite old chestnut again. In terms of their basic talent level, 23-year-olds don't improve. While we remain a side struggling to reach a higher level, Mason will remain an important player for us. If we reach that level Mason will no longer be a key player, but he may find a niche roll in what would then be a much better squad.

I strongly disagree that 23yo don’t improve. Maybe you are referring to skill alone, but don't think I can agree with that either.

to my eyes mount possesses good technique on the ball, quick feet and good control. Therefore a slight improvement in, say decisions, could make him a much more influential player.

Come to think of it, I’ve seen players improve much later than that. Luka Modric being the most obvious example, but there are many others.

regarding fans… lol they also love grealish who is shit. Stick Mount in City's starting XI and they win the league all the same. 😉

Edited November 26, 2022 by robsblubot

[Blue Armour 4,436]

1 hour ago, NikkiCFC said:

He is so criticised by England fans. I checked last night twitter, Daily mail comment section, red cafe...

To be fair, the bias of those places towards Chelsea players in general is pretty much against.

[Fulham Broadway 17,299]

23 minutes ago, Blue Armour said:

To be fair, the bias of those places towards Chelsea players in general is pretty much against.

Ah those bastions of impartiality, Red cafe, Twitter, and the Daily heil ...☺️

[Reddish-Blue 2,489]

5 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I strongly disagree that 23yo don’t improve. Maybe you are referring to skill alone, but don't think I can agree with that either.

to my eyes mount possesses good technique on the ball, quick feet and good control. Therefore a slight improvement in, say decisions, could make him a much more influential player.

Come to think of it, I’ve seen players improve much later than that. Luka Modric being the most obvious example, but there are many others.

regarding fans… lol they also love grealish who is shit. Stick Mount in City's starting XI and they win the league all the same. 😉

I think a significant improvement would be needed to make him an influential player, I don't recall him taking over any games this season (other than the goals he got against Villa). 

To me influence means you're taking over the game like Lampard, Drogba, Hazard and co.  The problem with Mount has always been him drifting out of games, he has flashes of brilliance where you think he's about to turn the corner and take the next step and then he is back to being bang average for the next 4-5 games. 

As for the comment about City, let's be honest, you could stick alot of players into their starting XI and they wouldn't look out of place challenging for the title.  You look at our top 4 rivals and the question becomes, is Mount a guaranteed starter for Conte, Ten Hag or Arteta? 

[robsblubot 3,595]

38 minutes ago, Reddish-Blue said:

I think a significant improvement would be needed to make him an influential player, I don't recall him taking over any games this season (other than the goals he got against Villa). 

To me influence means you're taking over the game like Lampard, Drogba, Hazard and co.  The problem with Mount has always been him drifting out of games, he has flashes of brilliance where you think he's about to turn the corner and take the next step and then he is back to being bang average for the next 4-5 games. 

As for the comment about City, let's be honest, you could stick alot of players into their starting XI and they wouldn't look out of place challenging for the title.  You look at our top 4 rivals and the question becomes, is Mount a guaranteed starter for Conte, Ten Hag or Arteta? 

That's exactly my point: blaming Mount for us not being competitive in the league does not make sense to me.

I rate what he does even when he's not influencing games with a pass, or a goal. I do not rate a loved player in this forum, Mata, exactly because he was a zero when not clicking. Personally I think Mount is a typical big game player... My point remains, if the team lacks creativity add that in a different position. Mount if fine and a strong player in his own right and his own characteristics. Some suggested moving to a CM position, perhaps then fans will stop whining? 🤷‍♂️

[NikkiCFC 8,285]

1 hour ago, robsblubot said:

Personally I think Mount is a typical big game player...  

Is this a joke? He has 2 goals in last 2 and a half seasons against teams higher than 12th place on table. It should be actually higher than 15th place but AV improved after manager change and is now 12th. They were 17th when Mount scored brace against them. He costed us big time in both EFL and FA Cup finals last season with missing sitters and penalty. Most criticised England player by fans last EURO and now on WC. How is he big game player? Also he is not playing Kovacic role not to be judged with goals. In two months is going to be 2 years since Tuchel took Chelsea. Since then Mount is exclusively playing in front 3. 

I don't know why some Chelsea fans have so much trouble to put realistic look on him. Fans favourite and deserves 300k? While for example we have Pulisic who is shit and should be sold to mid table team according to many. But what is difference between them when you put numbers on paper? 

Mount 32g 37a for us 13217mins. 

Pulisic 26g 21a 7614mins. 

Add to that Pulisic doesn't take set pieces and penalties for us. If you take that away from Mount, Pulisic actually has more goals and assists in 5600 less minutes which is like 62 games. They are playing same position for us and should be compared. Don't get me wrong I'm not happy with Pulisic either but main point is that we would make tremendous mistake if we extend Mount for 300k. Even 200k is generous. And really curious to see what would happen if we don't give him what he wants. He thinks someone else is going to pay him that much? No chance. 

[robsblubot 3,595]

6 hours ago, NikkiCFC said:

Is this a joke? He has 2 goals in last 2 and a half seasons against teams higher than 12th place on table. It should be actually higher than 15th place but AV improved after manager change and is now 12th. They were 17th when Mount scored brace against them. He costed us big time in both EFL and FA Cup finals last season with missing sitters and penalty. Most criticised England player by fans last EURO and now on WC. How is he big game player? Also he is not playing Kovacic role not to be judged with goals. In two months is going to be 2 years since Tuchel took Chelsea. Since then Mount is exclusively playing in front 3. 

I don't know why some Chelsea fans have so much trouble to put realistic look on him. Fans favourite and deserves 300k? While for example we have Pulisic who is shit and should be sold to mid table team according to many. But what is difference between them when you put numbers on paper? 

Mount 32g 37a for us 13217mins. 

Pulisic 26g 21a 7614mins. 

Add to that Pulisic doesn't take set pieces and penalties for us. If you take that away from Mount, Pulisic actually has more goals and assists in 5600 less minutes which is like 62 games. They are playing same position for us and should be compared. Don't get me wrong I'm not happy with Pulisic either but main point is that we would make tremendous mistake if we extend Mount for 300k. Even 200k is generous. And really curious to see what would happen if we don't give him what he wants. He thinks someone else is going to pay him that much? No chance. 

Cry me a river. Lol

He’s a player who does not let the opposition play. Now, you may think that’s not that important that anyone can do that, but I disagree. I think having players who can both 1. Not let the opposition play and 2. Make his team click is a rare thing… but that’s just me. 

I agree that this is definitely something that the numbers you posted don’t show. So, can we agree that you are the oddball here? We are going into the 3rd manager with mount as a key player—no to mention England. So, either you are right and everybody else is wrong or, more likely, most coaches and managers see something you don’t, something your numbers don’t show. Sorry, but I think the latter is far more likely.

Finally, regarding the perceived lack of creativity in the starting XII fiz that in a different position! Plenty of spots to get a creative player for. Really don’t see what mount has to do with building the squad to be honest.

[MoroccanBlue 5,375]

Mount should not be the creative influence of our team. He needs to have a limited role. 
 

Enzo and Nkunku could help with that. 

[OhForAGreavsie 6,057]

22 hours ago, robsblubot said:

I strongly disagree that 23yo don’t improve. Maybe you are referring to skill alone, but don't think I can agree with that either.

Forgive me, but I've been having this conversation on various forums for nearly twenty years and I'm not sure I can raise the enthusiasm to rehearse the arguments once again. That's not to say that I would not be interested to read anything you have to say on the subject, I absolutely will be, but I may not reach for the keyboard to reply. Let me just confirm that I said a player cannot improve his basic talent level at twenty-three, although in fact I don't believe a player can do that much past the age of ten or eleven. The way I often illustrate my point is to ask, "If players can improve their talent level, why don't they all practice until they are Lionel Messi?"

Of all my football opinions, this is the one of which I am most certain. I accept that my confidence is not an argument and so can't mean much to you, but I am 100% certain that I am right. Worse, from your point of view, I am 100% certain that you, and everyone else, will eventually agree with me. 🙂 That's if you don't already feel you can agree with me now that I've reemphasised that I'm talking about absolute talent level. Again, I accept that the strength of my conviction does not mean that you or anyone else will agree, but it does mean that my opinion on this is not biddable. I have this point of view and it can never be changed.

It was my firmness of conviction on this which enabled me to predict in autumn 2011 that Romelu Lukaku would never be good enough for Chelsea. It is why, without watching him play a single minute for Inter, I was confidently able to dismiss the claims of those who told me he had improved in Italy. Indeed, when people explained that he had done extra training with Antonio and claimed that this had transformed him, I simply said that the fact he still needed remedial lessons at the age of 28 only proved that I had been right about him all along.

I agree, of course, that players can learn how to make better use of the talent they have but the range of improvement is always linked to, and limited by, the basic level of ability. Modric always had the talent. He, and his coaches, learned how best to deploy it. It's a frequent experience that as children the high-level footballers play in forward positions simply because they are way more talented that the kids around them. As they rise up the ranks however some of them move lower and find their true home on a football pitch. 

Edited November 27, 2022 by OhForAGreavsie