Mason Mount

[Jase 43,479]

10 minutes ago, Stats said:

Imagine writing off a 22 year old who has played almost every game for us and been probably our best player. People will say it is not clear cut chances or a lot of the chances created are from corners, but he is in the top 5 in league for chances created. Look at the piece of play he done against Southampton where he went past 2-3 players and crossed the ball in with his weaker foot and James failed to score, which he really should have.

Personally, I'm not writing him off but it's clear that there are fans who seem to overhype/overrate him way beyond his current abilities right now. 

Am not one to just stupidly dismiss chances created from corners or take it for granted, especially after having witnessed Willian taking them for years, but think Mount being in Top 5 for chances created is kinda misleading. I don't have the exact numbers right now but how many chances has Mount created from open play and how many from set pieces? The ability to create chances for open play and the ability to create chances from set pieces are two different things. The former is the one that separates the best from the rest. That's down to a player's vision, creativity, passing and that knack of picking out passes that not many others can. The latter is down to basically accuracy of the delivery more than anything else from a dead ball situation. It's good that Mount is good and improving on set pieces but what we want to see from him is to creating chances from open play. Why do you think people praise players like De Bruyne, David Silva, Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta etc? It's because of their ability on the ball and ability to create chances from open play. It's not because of chances created from set pieces. 

And yes, that James opportunity is valid and he should have scored but that's just 1 example from the game. One could easily pick out a moment like that from Willian but no one will sit here and say he's creative, no?

22 minutes ago, Stats said:

No end product is nonsense. He is leading by example at his age at a club where we have spent millions but both managers we have had in charge have continued to play him. He has flaws that any 22 year old will have, but he will get better and I can only imagine a few years time, how good he will be.

How is Mount not having end product nonsense? Lampard spoke about it a lot - e.g. wanting him to get into the box more and score more goals - and Tuchel mentioned after the Southampton as well, saying Mount did a lot of good things to create dangerous moments but the final ball was lacking. Even Mount has said it himself before.

Mount is playing a lot because he does the other stuff right - e.g. the effort, the energy, tactical reasons - but it's clear that his end product isn't there. Mount leading by example with the performances is totally different from having no end product. 

Mount is decent right now and may well go to become a great player but if this Mount had come through the academy at another club, would we go gaga and want to buy him for say 30, 40, 50 million now? And also, if by miracle everyone in the team is fit and firing, would Mount start ahead of CHO, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz under Tuchel? 

[Stats 7,140]

10 hours ago, Jason said:

Personally, I'm not writing him off but it's clear that there are fans who seem to overhype/overrate him way beyond his current abilities right now. 

Am not one to just stupidly dismiss chances created from corners or take it for granted, especially after having witnessed Willian taking them for years, but think Mount being in Top 5 for chances created is kinda misleading. I don't have the exact numbers right now but how many chances has Mount created from open play and how many from set pieces? The ability to create chances for open play and the ability to create chances from set pieces are two different things. The former is the one that separates the best from the rest. That's down to a player's vision, creativity, passing and that knack of picking out passes that not many others can. The latter is down to basically accuracy of the delivery more than anything else from a dead ball situation. It's good that Mount is good and improving on set pieces but what we want to see from him is to creating chances from open play. Why do you think people praise players like De Bruyne, David Silva, Fabregas, Xavi, Iniesta etc? It's because of their ability on the ball and ability to create chances from open play. It's not because of chances created from set pieces. 

And yes, that James opportunity is valid and he should have scored but that's just 1 example from the game. One could easily pick out a moment like that from Willian but no one will sit here and say he's creative, no?

How is Mount not having end product nonsense? Lampard spoke about it a lot - e.g. wanting him to get into the box more and score more goals - and Tuchel mentioned after the Southampton as well, saying Mount did a lot of good things to create dangerous moments but the final ball was lacking. Even Mount has said it himself before.

Mount is playing a lot because he does the other stuff right - e.g. the effort, the energy, tactical reasons - but it's clear that his end product isn't there. Mount leading by example with the performances is totally different from having no end product. 

Mount is decent right now and may well go to become a great player but if this Mount had come through the academy at another club, would we go gaga and want to buy him for say 30, 40, 50 million now? And also, if by miracle everyone in the team is fit and firing, would Mount start ahead of CHO, Pulisic, Ziyech, Havertz under Tuchel? 

Mount is not the most creative but he has a drive, brilliant technique which will get better. His shooting from range is really underrated. Like I say his passing is decent, not the best. He produced that brilliant pass for CHO against Rennes which he needs to do more but that will come. Even Grealish struggled to necessarily carve through oppositions at the same age playing in the Championship. Few years down the line, he has worked on his technique, passing, dribbling. Mount will get there. He already has brilliant stamina, movement, technique. I think he is brilliant all round midfielder. 

I was referring to the comment about him being a 'hardworker with no end product'. He isnt just simply a hardworker with no end product. He contributed more goals than most people his age last season in the same area. Like I say Fernandes was no way near world class at that age. There are many other examples too of players who are top class now and were unknown at the same age. He can be inconsistent like @DDAsaid but for me he is a young player who needs to work on his end product. But that also means other players in the team stepping up too.

Well when you have so many quality players, I would expect rotation more often. So I wouldn't expect him to be a guaranteed starter but to get a lot of game time.

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

Mount is not the most creative but he has a drive, brilliant technique which will get better. His shooting from range is really underrated. Like I say his passing is decent, not the best. He produced that brilliant pass for CHO against Rennes which he needs to do more but that will come. Even Grealish struggled to necessarily carve through oppositions at the same age playing in the Championship. Few years down the line, he has worked on his technique, passing, dribbling. Mount will get there. He already has brilliant stamina, movement, technique. I think he is brilliant all round midfielder. 

I was referring to the comment about him being a 'hardworker with no end product'. He isnt just simply a hardworker with no end product. He contributed more goals than most people his age last season in the same area. Like I say Fernandes was no way near world class at that age. There are many other examples too of players who are top class now and were unknown at the same age. He can be inconsistent like @DDAsaid but for me he is a young player who needs to work on his end product. But that also means other players in the team stepping up too.

Well when you have so many quality players, I would expect rotation more often. So I wouldn't expect him to be a guaranteed starter but to get a lot of game time.

Yes, Mount has the tools to potentially be great and I don't really disagree with you there but think the issue, as mentioned before, is that fans seem to overhype/overrate him way beyond his current abilities right now. He's decent/good but definitely not world class now. Any little good thing that Mount does, you have people going super gaga over it (maybe not here but certainly on places like Twitter), like it's the greatest thing in the world. If someone like Kovacic does it, the reaction is more muted.

Also, answer this hypothetical question... 

11 hours ago, Jason said:

if this Mount had come through the academy at another club, would we go gaga and want to buy him for say 30, 40, 50 million now?

Don't be biased.

[Blue Armour 4,436]

On 20/02/2021 at 15:11, OneMoSalah said:

True but what I like about him is he takes responsibility in the final third. He doesn’t  always have the final pass but he’s wanting to make things happen and takes risks. Once he irons out his final output in terms of final pass and his shooting, people will appreciate his value much more. 

His general play is good though, he is pretty well rounded, he also works hard and I know people don’t see that as a huge quality but in modern day football pressing the ball when you lose it is so common and so important now. We wont see him being subbed off like CHO was for something to do with poor energy in counter pressing or whatever TT said it was. 

The most annoying is how a lot of people compare his output to players like Maddison (age 24) and Grealish (age 25), and use that as a stick to beat him down.

To me, Mount has the necessary tools, the time and the attitude to reach those levels.

More importantly he seems to also have that same kind of endurance that Lampard had as a player. An underrated quality which you value only when you look at players like Pulisic who end up being missing for nearly 2/3'rds of the season.

Edited February 22, 2021 by Blue Armour

[coolhead23 1,147]

Mason Mount for me the prefect (nearly) squad player someone who is needed in a team. He is someone who would be a manager's delight because he offers something in all positions but for fans he would always he doesnt specializes in anything. 

At 22, he definitely has the right attitude, drive & determination to succeed. He remind of a young Lampard and maybe would have the same path to success. 

[Stats 7,140]

7 hours ago, Jason said:

Also, answer this hypothetical question... 

Don't be biased.

Maybe because he isn't your typical flair player like Grealish, Maddison etc, he isnt going to stand out but in a few years time, I am sure once he becomes all round accomplished player, I would be calling for us to sign him but while he is our there in the team, I am happy with him in there.

[Jase 43,479]

6 hours ago, Blue Armour said:

More importantly he seems to also have that same kind of endurance that Lampard had as a player. An underrated quality which you value only when you look at players like Pulisic who end up being missing for nearly 2/3'rds of the season.

Seriously? Now Mount gets praised for basically being non-injury prone player? You said it as if Pulisic wanted to be an injury prone player or that he intentionally gets injured all the time. 

[Jase 43,479]

1 hour ago, Stats said:

Maybe because he isn't your typical flair player like Grealish, Maddison etc, he isnt going to stand out but in a few years time, I am sure once he becomes all round accomplished player, I would be calling for us to sign him but while he is our there in the team, I am happy with him in there.

So in other words, you wouldn't buy Mount right now if he had come through another academy elsewhere but would do so if/when he only becomes a top class in the future, just like we mostly do with other players? Ookay.

[Stats 7,140]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

So in other words, you wouldn't buy Mount right now if he had come through another academy elsewhere but would do so if/when he only becomes a top class in the future, just like we mostly do with other players? Ookay.

Last season, when everyone was raving about Grealish, I was not sold on him, but his performances this season have literally reached world class. Just because I wouldn't sign another player from another academy or club does not mean I do not rate them. But since Mount has been an academy product, it is hard to put down that marker whether I would take him or not. He is a quality player, but there are many other quality players who play in his role in different teams also. Think Maddison is a quality player, but I wouldn't necessarily take him because we have Mount. The question maybe to ask is at 22 years of age, would I have taken Grealish compared to Mount at same age? No. Maddison? No.

But even when Mount was on loan at Vitesse and Derby, I was always hoping that within the next 2 seasons we would integrate him into the team.

[Jase 43,479]

4 minutes ago, Stats said:

Last season, when everyone was raving about Grealish, I was not sold on him, but his performances this season have literally reached world class. Just because I wouldn't sign another player from another academy or club does not mean I do not rate them. But since Mount has been an academy product, it is hard to put down that marker whether I would take him or not. He is a quality player, but there are many other quality players who play in his role in different teams also. Think Maddison is a quality player, but I wouldn't necessarily take him because we have Mount. The question maybe to ask is at 22 years of age, would I have taken Grealish compared to Mount at same age? No. Maddison? No.

But even when Mount was on loan at Vitesse and Derby, I was always hoping that within the next 2 seasons we would integrate him into the team.

Forget Grealish. Forget Maddison. I never once mentioned them to compare them with Mount on this and I don't care about them. Am just asking specifically about Mount and whether you would take him right now, at this moment of time. 

[Stats 7,140]

1 hour ago, Jason said:

Forget Grealish. Forget Maddison. I never once mentioned them to compare them with Mount on this and I don't care about them. Am just asking specifically about Mount and whether you would take him right now, at this moment of time. 

Well, that is a tough one, but he certainly would be high up on my options, yes.

[Jase 43,479]

2 minutes ago, Stats said:

Well, that is a tough one, but he certainly would be high up on my options, yes.

But not a guarantee buy going by your post above. 😏

[Stats 7,140]

14 minutes ago, Jason said:

But not a guarantee buy going by your post above. 😏

Well there is so much other talented players. He just happens to be one of them. I mean even the England team let alone squad is so hard to pick right now, such is the talent in that squad.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

5 hours ago, Stats said:

Maybe because he isn't your typical flair player like Grealish, Maddison etc, he isnt going to stand out but in a few years time, I am sure once he becomes all round accomplished player, I would be calling for us to sign him but while he is our there in the team, I am happy with him in there.

Comparing him to Grealish is different. Grealish is a wide player. His games in a central role this season he has 0 goals and 0 assists. Not his position again but gets frustrating how when everyone mentions Mason Mount, Grealish is one of the the first names used to compare him. Or Foden. These guys are used as wingers.

Also as you said, they are more flair players (although would say Maddison and Grealish have both worked on their end product and being more reliable) but lets also not forget Maddison took a bit of time to look at home in the PL and is 24 now. I seen him play up at Aberdeen and could tell he would always go and play at a very high level but it took time for him to establish himself as a top player consistently in that position he plays and also Brendan Rodgers deserves huge credit in helping him develop as he has. Also was Jack Grealish a better player than Mount aged 22? 

Still don’t see how some people cant see Mason’s value to this team though. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by OneMoSalah

[killer1257 3,282]

The problem of a mason is his decision making and lack of creativity. How many open play assists has he? He played so many games as a no.10 and I see Tammy making open play assists to Mason, but not the other way around. In our last match, Mason could have easily played a pass to Werner, who was free, but Mason decided to go inside instead and got fouled. Our free kick after that was horrible, but if Mason plays the ball to Werner, it is a 1 vs 1 situation against the Gk. Maddison easily plays that pass. That was really not that hard