Tiemoue Bakayoko

[Tomo 21,733]

1 hour ago, Atomiswave said:

She has the final say, if it aint rocking her boat she aint getting them. And if its not her ( I doubt that big time ) then why is the said person still in charge of these matters? Why isnt his ass fired?

I don't think that's true atall. I think footballing people below identify the targets and she tries to negotiate with whatever names have been given. I don't believe for one second that she has any say in picking which players to target, potentially she vetos some for financial reasons but I that's about as far as it goes. Maybe she does do things wrong but picking her out for something she more than likely has no involvement in just screams being critical for the sake of it, you may aswell accuse her of the Kennedy assassination while you're at it.

[Vesper 28,802]

46 minutes ago, Tomo said:

I don't think that's true atall. I think footballing people below identify the targets and she tries to negotiate with whatever names have been given. I don't believe for one second that she has any say in picking which players to target, potentially she vetos some for financial reasons but I that's about as far as it goes. Maybe she does do things wrong but picking her out for something she more than likely has no involvement in just screams being critical for the sake of it, you may aswell accuse her of the Kennedy assassination while you're at it.

Other than Roman and his son Arkadiy (who I think plays a far greater and disastrous role than is let on) the only other person above Marina was Michael Emenalo, who left almost 2 years ago.

She has FAR more culpability than some on here choose to admit.

Do not even get me started on this 'she is brilliant at selling players' tosh. We are going to take hundreds of millions in loses versus potential revenue from smart and timely sales, let alone the SHIT buys at ludicrous prices and salaries that occurred on her watch.

She is a hack when it comes to the football-centric running of a top global club.

[NikkiCFC 7,950]

We all guess here so I'm going to do the same. 

I think Marina doesn't have a clue about football and only cares about financial and marketing stuff. She does transfer negotiations about players she probably never heard of and after being advised. Yeah we all agree we should sell Willian but no way she decided not to. If our board told her 'hey pretty go sell this shitty player' I'm sure she would get us great amount of money like she did with Oscar, Morata, Costa, Ramires, Matic... We did overpay for example for Drinkwater but if Leicester said 35m or nothing someone probably told her go for it. 

About this Bakayoko situation if she block the deal it probably means it's not financially good deal for us. Like Monaco only wants to pay half of his salary or something. PSG is in the game for him so we could probably do better. 

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

roflmaooooooooooooooo

ludicrous

if you are going to argue that we are well run in the buy sell player market, there is no hope for you

I refuse to be gaslit on this tosh

Is that what you picked out from my post? You don’t have to make smart purchases to be sufficiently ran if at the end of the day the books are balanced. Which is what Marina is responsible for.

The only thing ludicrous is to put full blame on an individual who is in no way responsible for the targets this club identifies. 

 

2 hours ago, Vesper said:

Other than Roman and his son Arkadiy (who I think plays a far greater and disastrous role than is let on) the only other person above Marina was Michael Emenalo, who left almost 2 years ago.

She has FAR more culpability than some on here choose to admit.

Do not even get me started on this 'she is brilliant at selling players' tosh. We are going to take hundreds of millions in loses versus potential revenue from smart and timely sales, let alone the SHIT buys at ludicrous prices and salaries that occurred on her watch.

She is a hack when it comes to the football-centric running of a top global club.

Aside the fact you can’t possible prove that Marina is responsible for the targets identified, genuine question, what do you do for a living?

Because I’ve seen your constant posts of which players would be available and what they would cost,  so it’s bewildering how you of all people are able to determine how easy you say it is to get these players, when those who are paid millions of pounds and are actually employed by top European clubs, don’t make it as bread and butter as you make it?

[Vesper 28,802]

12 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Is that what you picked out from my post? You don’t have to make smart purchases to be sufficiently ran if at the end of the day the books are balanced. Which is what Marina is responsible for.

The only thing ludicrous is to put full blame on an individual who is in no way responsible for the targets this club identifies. 

 

Aside the fact you can’t possible prove that Marina is responsible for the targets identified, genuine question, what do you do for a living?

Because I’ve seen your constant posts of which players would be available and what they would cost,  so it’s bewildering how you of all people are able to determine how easy you say it is to get these players, when those who are paid millions of pounds and are actually employed by top European clubs, don’t make it as bread and butter as you make it?

I work in financials. I have a good eye and mind for valuations of a multitude of things across a wide spectrum of endeavours,

Also, you are using a straw man fallacy, as I never stated that Marina is the sole targeting entity on the club. She can do more than enough damage in other arenas to justify my condemnation of her in regards to the overall health of CFC without her owning that particular vector.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Sorry but you guys are fooling yourself if you dont think she has a say in who comes in, she is the most powerfull lady in football, like forever, No one is bigger than her at SB. SHe is the so called transfer guru, you dont think she had a big role in deciding to give Alonso a big juicy contract? At the time we all knew this guy is done and should be sold asap, and bang she hands him a booster. She is the boss, why did she give him one instead of getting rid to bolster that side? She is not a footy person and had zero experience prior coming here. Its obvious to me she doesnt know what she is doing regarding getting our team better, amazing she cant see we are declining badly and fast, but hey the balance sheets look good though.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

Time for her to acknowledge that she overpaid for a dud and is probably not going to get back what she paid......get rid asap.

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

50 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Time for her to acknowledge that she overpaid for a dud and is probably not going to get back what she paid......get rid asap.

Conte wanted him and that is what Monaco valued him for and wouldn’t budge. 

How is this Marina’s fault again? 

[OneMoSalah 8,777]

On 21/08/2019 at 8:51 PM, Tomo said:

I don't think that's true atall. I think footballing people below identify the targets and she tries to negotiate with whatever names have been given. I don't believe for one second that she has any say in picking which players to target, potentially she vetos some for financial reasons but I that's about as far as it goes. Maybe she does do things wrong but picking her out for something she more than likely has no involvement in just screams being critical for the sake of it, you may aswell accuse her of the Kennedy assassination while you're at it.

100% agree. 

I dont think anybody on here can say shes shit at her job because she negotiated deals for "players she wanted ie Bakayoki, Drinkwater, Morata, player X or Y whoever"... I mean wtf people clutching at straws. She doesnt pick the players we sign for fuck sake. If anyone is doubting this, then they should seriously look at what her job title is because I am certain it is Chief Executive. Not technical director or director of football.

Okay, she negotiates the deals for them, contracts for existing players, sponsorships etc but she doesnt go and pick players personally or she would be a scout/technical director not a business woman.

Okay maybe she has negotiated bad deals for us both ways and maybe the majority of ones from say the last 2 or 3 seasons the most of the players who came in, which she negotiated with clubs and players for contracts/wages, havent been great. She could be doing better but if anyone thinks shes sitting going okay who can I sign for Chelsea next without any input from anyone in a footballing capacity or with huge footballing knowledge then they need their head checked. I mean fair enough Ive been critical of her at times but not for signing Morata or Bakayoko or whoever because while she closed the deal, she didnt decide to go after them players herself. They were obviously players the club had been scouting where they will go through some evaluation process and eventually end up on a list of potential targets regardless of availability or the feeling the club can make the deal happen like I am sure happens at most clubs. 

 

[Jase 43,479]

If people are gonna have a go at Maria for making bad deals, then they should also have a go at the chief scout (can't remember the person's name) who recommends players to her. Heck, the blame should be more on the scout for even suggesting average/bad players to begin with!

[robsblubot 3,504]

On 8/22/2019 at 4:40 AM, Vesper said:

I work in financials. I have a good eye and mind for valuations of a multitude of things across a wide spectrum of endeavours,

Also, you are using a straw man fallacy, as I never stated that Marina is the sole targeting entity on the club. She can do more than enough damage in other arenas to justify my condemnation of her in regards to the overall health of CFC without her owning that particular vector.

While you may have a knack for data analysis form your profession, you’d still lack time and focus, which the professionals who do this for a living have in abundance.

I think it’s also an issue with the quality of the data. They have access to a lot more information about players than what is publicly available. Some from their own network (which is priced in their services) and some within the club.

Often scouts travel to location to observe players and regions. They attend live games to get that extra detail regarding how the player moves and behaves when the ball isn’t nearby. They also speak with current and former colleagues (managers and coaches) to find out about the player (and/or use their network).

Yes bakayoko is one of those who makes you scratch your head, but sometimes it’s something as simple as an influential agent pushing his product.

And even after all that, we still have a morata who fails for completely different reasons. Mental aspect and football style.

Sometimes they won’t adapt to life, region and language, like Diego costa.

case in point, the fact that scouts and agents move so much money.

Regarding, Marina, does not seem like she does a whole lot more than contracts and deals in general, which is a whole lot already with these complex player contract ownerships. Would also be very surprised if she did more than that.

[Vesper 28,802]

13 minutes ago, Robchels said:

While you may have a knack for data analysis form your profession, you’d still lack time and focus, which the professionals who do this for a living have in abundance.

I think it’s also an issue with the quality of the data. They have access to a lot more information about players than what is publicly available. Some from their network  and some within the club.

Often scouts travel to location to observe certain players and regions. They attend live games to get that extra detail regarding how the player moves and behaves when the ball isn’t nearby. They also speak with current and former colleagues (managers and coaches) to find out about the player (and/or use their network).

Yes bakayoko is one of those who makes you scratch your head, but sometimes it’s something as simple as an influential agent pushing his product.

And even after all that, we still have a morata who fails for completely different reasons. Mental aspect and football style.

Sometimes they won’t adapt to life, region and language, like Diego costa.

case in point, the fact that scouts and agents move so much money.

Regarding, Maria, does not seem like she does a whole lot more than contracts and deals in general, which is a whole lot already with these complex player contract ownerships. Would also be very surprised if she did more than that.

I never claimed to be anywhere near perfect, but I think my posts since I joined have overall been quite prescient

Obviously it is a human game, not pure data (and financial markets are also subject to 'animal spirits')

I think many now are confusing my criticism of Marina by assuming I am saying (and others are saying) that she is targeting the players

that is not my stance at all

my criticism of her is mainly on the money/negotiation and future-forward contractual planning side

ie. valuations, and strategic long term fiscal structuring

my one big bust in terms of being happy with a buy only to be dead wrong is ironically Bakayoko

I thought he would be able to cope with the pace of the EPL, as he certainly did against great CL teams and the top Ligue 1 teams in that huge run Monaco had in 2016/17

[robsblubot 3,504]

8 hours ago, Vesper said:

I never claimed to be anywhere near perfect, but I think my posts since I joined have overall been quite prescient

Obviously it is a human game, not pure data (and financial markets are also subject to 'animal spirits')

I think many now are confusing my criticism of Marina by assuming I am saying (and others are saying) that she is targeting the players

that is not my stance at all

my criticism of her is mainly on the money/negotiation and future-forward contractual planning side

ie. valuations, and strategic long term fiscal structuring

my one big bust in terms of being happy with a buy only to be dead wrong is ironically Bakayoko

I thought he would be able to cope with the pace of the EPL, as he certainly did against great CL teams and the top Ligue 1 teams in that huge run Monaco had in 2016/17

Give it time...  lots of bakayokos out there.

makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

On 21/08/2019 at 6:23 PM, LAM09 said:

...

First I've heard of that. [Carlo initiating the move for Nando] Everything I had read prior pointed to Carlo's relutance.

Some narratives seem able to acquire a lot of resistance to the truth. I exchanged posts with someone a few years ago where I explained my own surprise at Ray's admission. That person wouldn't have it. He was adamant that Roman had driven the Torres deal and that Ray must be lying. Unambiguous statements to the contrary from Ray made no difference.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

It's good to read a few more realistic appraisals of Marina's role in transfers because the nonsensical version seemed to be in the majority for a long time. I confess I often avoided the 'The Board' thread because what I usually read there just annoyed the heck out of me. Perhaps I just wasn't reading the right posts before now.

[Atomiswave 6,072]

17 hours ago, MoroccanBlue said:

Conte wanted him and that is what Monaco valued him for and wouldn’t budge. 

How is this Marina’s fault again? 

Doesnt matter if its her fault or not......she should get rid while we can, his stock is only going down. Lets be honest would you have him in your team?

[MoroccanBlue 5,297]

24 minutes ago, Atomiswave said:

Doesnt matter if its her fault or not......she should get rid while we can, his stock is only going down. Lets be honest would you have him in your team?

And let’s be realistic, what club actually wants him? We need to sell him at a value worth accounting for to make the 40 million we spent on not a total loss. 

[Atomiswave 6,072]

2 minutes ago, MoroccanBlue said:

And let’s be realistic, what club actually wants him? We need to sell him at a value worth accounting for to make the 40 million we spent on not a total loss. 

Exactly....even if its a loan then do it. We get a fee plus his wages are cut off, or most of it anyway. He has no value, he aint gonna suddenly go up in value.