The Conte Thread

[Henrique 9,133]

Conte was gamble. When he was announced, many people tried to picture him as a genius, and he is not. At least no yet. His job with Italy NT has nothing to do with club stuff. Managing clubs and NTs are different animals. Dont tell me he did great with Juventus, because Juve is miles ahead of other teams in terms of money and structure at the moment, so winning Seria A 3 times in a row with Juventus don't turn Conte in a great manager.

I'm not saying (yet) he is a fraud or must be fired. Just take a look at last weekend game between United and City. United is not a Mourinho side yet. Far from solid at the back, conceding way too many chances to City, and City is also far from solid, and their passing is still far from what you would expect from a Guardiola's side. This Chelsea is not a Conte side yet, but I'm really worried about his in game decisions. After 5 games, I cant tell I've never seen a manager making such stupid decisions like he is doing. In that aspect, until now he is worse than Scolari, AVB, RDM, Ranieri, Mourinho, Hiddink, Grant, Mourinho and even Rafa Benitez. I mean, the mean is getting outplayed the whole game, and we are entering in 77th minute with not a single sub. I mean, WTF? He is not even changing the players role in the pitch, the team basically keep using the same rigid tactics.

His team selection is also weird. Mourinho basically had the same line up (Matic, Fabregas; Oscar, William, Hazard; Costa), and when he wanted a more solid midfield he only changed Ramires for Oscar, but Conte is even worst. Same line up, no matter who he is facing. 

For the usual suspects, don't start with the "this squad is not good enough" bullshit. That would be a valid point if we were talking about a game against City or even United. This was a game against Liverpool. Liverpool's starting XI today was not even close of being stronger than ours. Conte was completely outclassed by Klopp. 

[bluephoenix 1,131]

I wonder why we turn to the manager every time we lose a match. Aren't the players to be blamed for it? 

Also, why is it that I feel the players take their position in the team for granted? And none of the managers are able to do anything about it.

 

[Styles 9,790]

1 minute ago, Tomo said:

Poch had similar problems in his first season at Spurs, positive signs but still too much Deadwood in the squad.

Even if we finished 6th Id still be behind Conte if we showed positive direction and there was enough there to make me believe that when he cleared the bad apples we will thrive, despite tonight I do believe that.

Judging by early evidence we might end up becoming flat track bully's but have some awkward big games, not nesseseirly a bad thing, well not in league football anyway.

What would you class as positive direction? We could play awful football for most of the year and still finish higher than we did last season.

Positive signs for me would be a progressive, modern style of play being implemented, some dead-wood being banished and players like Aina getting a chance. How likely are those things to happen? I'm not gonna hold my breath.

[Amblève. 4,995]

20 minutes ago, Essien19 said:

Matic was one of the reasons why Costa scored the goal the way he did. Conte did the right thing to let him play. Do you think Matic was that bad overall? I think his good moments overshadowed the poor, is Fabregas really the better solution?

Oscar could have ended up getting substituted...Fabregas showed that he can play football at an acceptable level again, still, expected a better free kick (under these circumstances) and not every of his passes were good, a bit knee jerk, i guess. I'm not a fan of his, Luiz showed that he can deliver those long balls.

You say we were already 2:0 down, but you shouldn't forget that this particuar scoreline is the one which has been most times overcome. You only need one goal to be back in it, i would have much rather brought on an agile attacker, someone like Batshuayi. But i have no problems with Conte's decision making.
Chelsea will win lots of games because of him.

I absolutely do think that Matic was poor tonight, not the first time either this season. The role he's supposed to play doesn't suit him (at least not on this level) though so it's hard to actually expect good performances out of him. However, I do expect Conte to notice that Matic is simply not providing enough as the ball-carrier in that first-11 and to drop him or put him into another role as the season progresses. Whether Fabregas actually is a better option we have to fully see yet but I'd rather take my chances with him than with an ultra-defensive midfield that failed to provide any defensive stability and pressing vs Liverpool let alone to contribute offensively (And no, I don't think a one-off warranted Matic staying on the pitch; he had 3, I believe, more runs in almost the same manner that completely failed so banking on him providing any offensive output close to his assist is rather delusional).

My reasoning for bringing on Fabregas at halftime has more to do with the way we played football in the first half than the result itself because we might as well have been 3:0 or 4:0 down considering the shit show we displayed. Even our only goal came after a Matic run that you see twice a season tops and nothing after that goal came even close being a decent chance. I get it, 2:0 down with still 45 minutes to play you try to keep your head and take calculated risks. 2:1 and you're suddenly back in the game again, once more you take a calculated approach and see what you can get. Unfortunately though this team hasn't looked convincing at all in these kind of situations for 1,5 years now, mostly simply because we don't have the players to keep calm and produce THAT one chance. Hazard was the only player on the pitch capable of doing so but he's only gonna do it so often. Fabregas who can pick out that one pass didn't get to play until the last 7 minutes or so and even when he was on the pitch he was used for putting crosses into the 18-yard box.

Conte should have committed to one approach in the 2nd half instead of that half-assed system. Either try to run Liverpool off the pitch or bring on Batshuayi to occupy the space between Costa and our midfield but don't ever try to play controlled football with this collective of players when you're behind.

[nono 791]

1 hour ago, Styles said:

Honestly, Conte may or may not be a top manager. I want to give him the benefit of the doubt (and I will) but I'd be lying if I said there weren't some worrying signs.

But what isn't in doubt is that we have an awful of shit footballers and that arguably more than half the squad is dead-weight. And we will continue to be an also-ran for the foreseeable future because of those reasons.

Tonight we lost to the first good team we have played this season. We couldn't get near them in the first half and we only came back into the game because their level dropped. A large part of the second half was what I would call 'fake pressure' - they let us have the ball and we had no idea how to create any meaningful chances.

Tonight's game was eerily similar to what we saw last season and why would it be any different? The team is largely the same - there haven't been nearly enough changes to have a clean break from the rubbish of the 15-16 season.

Hate to sound so downbeat but I'm just sick and tired of watching us get outplayed by every half decent team we play and resorting to shit on a stick football. Surely at some point enough is enough?

In the first half our centrehalves were trying to pump the the ball up the pitch to the wingers. There was no midfield and the commentators were mentioning that there was no one in the centre to pass the ball around. That was on Conte for selecting Oscar. Conte would be close to a sacking at this point without the goals Costa conjures every game. 

[Henrique 9,133]

1 minute ago, Styles said:

What would you class as positive direction? We could play awful football for most of the year and still finish higher than we did last season.

Positive signs for me would be a progressive, modern style of play being implemented, some dead-wood being banished and players like Aina getting a chance. How likely are those things to happen? I'm not gonna hold my breath.

Liverpool had a shit season, but they showed a "positive direction". Instead of "dead-wood" being banished, I would like to see Conte making those players still producing at least some kind of football. Believe me, the likes of Ivanovic, Matic and Oscar are far from world class players, but they are not so bad that could be used as an excuse for shit football.

[Tomo 21,751]

1 minute ago, Styles said:

What would you class as positive direction? We could play awful football for most of the year and still finish higher than we did last season.

Positive signs for me would be a progressive, modern style of play being implemented, some dead-wood being banished and players like Aina getting a chance. How likely are those things to happen? I'm not gonna hold my breath.

A clear sign if improvement on tactical and physical aspects, Diego nets that equalize and were all probably on here now raving about our fighting spirit, which is one element I have believed we have improved on as 6 points won in final ten minutes so far allude too.

Unfortunately last season's crap wasn't going to completely vanish overnight, five league games so far we have had three good performances and two rubbish ones, that ratio over the season will probably have us in topfour,achieve that, get shot of more Deadwood and go again should be primary aim.

 

[Styles 9,790]

1 minute ago, Henrique said:

Liverpool had a shit season, but they showed a "positive direction". Instead of "dead-wood" being banished, I would like to see Conte making those players still producing at least some kind of football. Believe me, the likes of Ivanovic, Matic and Oscar are far from world class players, but they are not so bad that could be used as an excuse for shit football.

We will have to agree to disagree because in my mind those are 3 of the biggest culprits right there. Those 3 players should have been moved on the summer but here they are, still in the first 11. Matic is a prime example: he is a slow, one-footed donkey that lacks even basic spatial awareness. How can we ever play well with somebody like that in a key part of the field? It's impossible.

 

[Henrique 9,133]

6 minutes ago, Tomo said:

A clear sign if improvement on tactical and physical aspects, Diego nets that equalize and were all probably on here now raving about our fighting spirit, which is one element I have believed we have improved on as 6 points won in final ten minutes so far allude too.

Unfortunately last season's crap wasn't going to completely vanish overnight, five league games so far we have had three good performances and two rubbish ones, that ratio over the season will probably have us in topfour,achieve that, get shot of more Deadwood and go again should be primary aim.

 

Even if Diego had equalized, whats different from what we have seen during Hiddink tenure? I remember some games of "fighting spirit": last minute equalize against Unite, that Spurs game, and I think you are being a little optimistic about the current form being enough for a top 4 finish. United, City and Arsenal are definitely finishing on top 4, and I'm really impressed with Liverpool. They had the hardest table in first 5 games, and got 6 points in away games against Arsenal and Chelsea.

Finishing between 5th and 6th is the reality of this team, in my opinion, and it would be really hard to see Conte surviving such a finish.

[Henrique 9,133]

7 minutes ago, Styles said:

We will have to agree to disagree because in my mind those are 3 of the biggest culprits right there. Those 3 players should have been moved on the summer but here they are, still in the first 11. Matic is a prime example: he is a slow, one-footed donkey that lacks even basic spatial awareness. How can we ever play well with somebody like that in a key part of the field? It's impossible.

 

So, they are so bad that you cant beat Swansea with them, or even play decent football against a not so stellar Liverpool side? 

 

 

[Styles 9,790]

Just now, Henrique said:

So, they are so bad that you cant beat Swansea with them, or even play decent football against a not so stellar Liverpool side?

Yes, I believe so. And trust me, that's not to protect Conte - there are some worrying signs about his management but I refuse to blame him for having non-footballers make up 70% of his squad.

[Supermonkey92 1,428]

32 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Conte was gamble. When he was announced, many people tried to picture him as a genius, and he is not. At least no yet. His job with Italy NT has nothing to do with club stuff. Managing clubs and NTs are different animals. Dont tell me he did great with Juventus, because Juve is miles ahead of other teams in terms of money and structure at the moment, so winning Seria A 3 times in a row with Juventus don't turn Conte in a great manager.

I'm not saying (yet) he is a fraud or must be fired. Just take a look at last weekend game between United and City. United is not a Mourinho side yet. Far from solid at the back, conceding way too many chances to City, and City is also far from solid, and their passing is still far from what you would expect from a Guardiola's side. This Chelsea is not a Conte side yet, but I'm really worried about his in game decisions. After 5 games, I cant tell I've never seen a manager making such stupid decisions like he is doing. In that aspect, until now he is worse than Scolari, AVB, RDM, Ranieri, Mourinho, Hiddink, Grant, Mourinho and even Rafa Benitez. I mean, the mean is getting outplayed the whole game, and we are entering in 77th minute with not a single sub. I mean, WTF? He is not even changing the players role in the pitch, the team basically keep using the same rigid tactics.

His team selection is also weird. Mourinho basically had the same line up (Matic, Fabregas; Oscar, William, Hazard; Costa), and when he wanted a more solid midfield he only changed Ramires for Oscar, but Conte is even worst. Same line up, no matter who he is facing. 

For the usual suspects, don't start with the "this squad is not good enough" bullshit. That would be a valid point if we were talking about a game against City or even United. This was a game against Liverpool. Liverpool's starting XI today was not even close of being stronger than ours. Conte was completely outclassed by Klopp. 

I don't get this 'Liverpool's team is no where good as ours'. Where, exactly? For the record i think of Liverpool as a on the brink of top 4 team. 

Keeper and defensive mid, i get it. Id prefer Costa over sturridge but thats mighty close. Hazard over coutinho? Not sure anymore. Willian over Firminho? I dont think so. Oscar vs Llalana? Matic vs the dutch fella? Ivanovic vs Clyne? Heck James bloody milner seems about as good as apzi at the moment in left back and twice as good going foward. 

Its not just perfectly justified to point out how bad this team is, its neccessary to compare it to Liverpool's. 

[Henrique 9,133]

3 minutes ago, Styles said:

Yes, I believe so. And trust me, that's not to protect Conte - there are some worrying signs about his management but I refuse to blame him for having non-footballers make up 70% of his squad.

Its just you being hypercritical towards your own team. Conte was shit today and was shit against Swansea.

[Tomo 21,751]

17 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Even if Diego had equalized, whats different from what we have seen during Hiddink tenure? I remember some games of "fighting spirit": last minute equalize against Unite, that Spurs game, and I think you are being a little optimistic about the current form being enough for a top 4 finish. United, City and Arsenal are definitely finishing on top 4, and I'm really impressed with Liverpool. They had the hardest table in first 5 games, and got 6 points in away games against Arsenal and Chelsea.

Finishing between 5th and 6th is the reality of this team, in my opinion, and it would be really hard to see Conte surviving such a finish.

Hiddink we did it three times irrc, we already matched that tally in four games Also problem with Liverpool is they stop too many easy points, they remind me off our pre Roman team in that respect.

City are champions this season no doubt, but beyond that it's a 3 for all, the three least average sides will make it. 

[Styles 9,790]

10 minutes ago, Henrique said:

Its just you being hypercritical towards your own team. Conte was shit today and was shit against Swansea.

He was, absolutely. Using your 3 subs with just 6 minutes to go despite losing for almost the ENTIRE game is one of the stupidest things I've ever seen a supposedly top coach ever do.

Trust me I'm not being hypercritical at all. You said in one of your earlier posts:

"Liverpool's starting XI today was not even close of being stronger than ours."

Again, that's something I disagree with. Several of our players wouldn't make Liverpool's team. You think Cahill, Ivanovic, Oscar, Matic would? Hell, I would take Mane over Willian personally.