Filipe Luís

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

Thus, the signing of Filipe Luis lacked logic entirely.

Even if he intended to make Azpilicueta his undisputed left-back, at least buy an Atletico right-back ffs

Even more fucked up when you realize Bertrand was off for this.

A youth player who started a champions league final for us just gone like that.

And people really believe Loftus Cheeks will make it here playing in an even more high stress position...

[Oscar 441]

Even more fucked up when you realize Bertrand was off for this.

A youth player who started a champions league final for us just gone like that.

And people really believe Loftus Cheeks will make it here playing in an even more high stress position...

yea, wtf.

Could of saved money, had a homegrown player and a younger player as well if Jose insisted on keeping ivan at rb.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

yea, wtf.

Could of saved money, had a homegrown player and a younger player as well if Jose insisted on keeping ivan at rb.

And he's already in the premier league team of the season.

Even if he wasn't good enough to start, he has to be right on the edge of being good enough. He is also still growing as a player.

[Oscar 441]

And he's already in the premier league team of the season.

Even if he wasn't good enough to start, he has to be right on the edge of being good enough. He is also still growing as a player.

only player left that is "english" after terry will be cahill....

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Even more fucked up when you realize Bertrand was off for this.

A youth player who started a champions league final for us just gone like that.

And people really believe Loftus Cheeks will make it here playing in an even more high stress position...

Didn't you get the memo? He's not "good enough" compared to the 29yo who's almost gone 12 months after signing

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

Didn't you get the memo? He's not "good enough" compared to the 29yo who's almost gone 12 months after signing

And that is the main point. If Bertrand wasn't good enough then Loftus Cheeks,Boga, or whoever most certainly will not be either. There is always going to be a "Better" player out there, and if we are going to buy just to buy then that will be the case.

He was pretty much the perfect example of what could reasonably be expected of a youth player at this current stage of time, and it was deemed not good enough. Massively disappointed as this signing appears heading towards its end.

[Duppy Conqueror 1,494]

I don`t see any player not making it as a precursor for other players following suite. there`s too many variables.

[Sir Mikel OBE 4,919]

I don`t see any player not making it as a precursor for other players following suite. there`s too many variables.

Bar changing manager that is pretty much what will happen.

We are talking about a guy who started a champions league final for us, and just recently got into premier league team of the season. No upcoming youth player in the midfield will remotely get the chances he got to impress.

[Duppy Conqueror 1,494]

all Bertrand showed for us by starting in Munich was that he could handle playing in a big game. he was given a certain role and he for the most part was solid whilst playing the role of defensive LW/ Assistant LB. he had pretty much for his entire Chelsea career been back up to two players who were/are among the top LB`s in the world. Ashley being undisputed number 1 in the world and Azpi being arguably.

I don`t see his case being a precursor for a different player at a different position(or the same) that being the most rotationed position in football not making it with us.

[Tomo 21,733]

Bar changing manager that is pretty much what will happen.

We are talking about a guy who started a champions league final for us, and just recently got into premier league team of the season. No upcoming youth player in the midfield will remotely get the chances he got to impress.

Out of those players that started in Munich that night at the ability they were in 2012 only possibly Cahill would get into this line-up.

Munich was a remarkable underdog story but we were underdog for a reason, saying "he started in the CL final" doesn't really wash all thing's considered, Bosingwa played that night, Dimi Traore started in Istanbul for Liverpool.

[Tomo 21,733]

This signing lacked logic in its beginning and lacks even more so now. Shame, Luis is actually a talented full-back and should really be playing with Cesar at RB. I guess this means Ivanovic will continue as our #1 RB.

I'm all for dropping Ivanovic but I'd rather buy a new RB then switch Cesar, harsh on Luis but Azpi has just simply been that good atleft back thoughts of dropping or moving him should be well down the lists of priorities.

He didn't make one single mistake that led to oppo chance last season, and what's also overlooked is Azpis amazing 1 on 1 defending is a big reason as to why Hazard gets close to a free role, well as close as your ever get under Jose if your name ain't Ronaldo. Luis hasn't been bad in fact he's been good on the whole but he simply can't compete with Azpi for those reasons mentioned especially.

If he's happy to play the same role he did last season then I'm happy to keep him here, if not fair enough goodbye and good luck.

[Unionjack 7,531]

I agree with what everyones saying about Filipe. The good and bad. It was a very strange buy tho and IF we could use him as a part ex instead of the money I'd prefer it

But I would like us to get a good LB so Dave can take over from Bane. Then all we need is for Happy to take over from Cahill and a replacement for el Capitano and our back 4 will be sorted lol

[Barbara 15,149]

I must be the only one that didn't give a shit about Bertrand. Didn't think he was ever even marginally good enough to play for us.

He was a backup, almost useless as he could only do one trick when we actually needed him (basic defensive work). Even then he had more downs than ups imo, impossibly overrated player around here. He found a team of his size when he moved to Southampton.

Back to Luis. Sorry, but it pays him sort of right. I like the guy, but he forced his exit last season when Atletico were very willing to keep him and did everything they could because he wanted to play in a 'bigger team'. now he wants to go back because although he won two titles here, he wants to play more often even if it's not in a team as big (generally speaking). Some amazing career management skills there.

That said, he should be our LB starter... he won't improve his timing and defensive moves in EPL if he doesn't play and he didn't compromise much when he played, although he's definitely a downgrade to Azpi defensively wise, the same way Azpi is much worse supporting the attack. I'm just tired of the whole team paying for a messed up defense (one kamikaze, one brainfart waiting to happen, a sacrificed RB and a WC CB that's slow and should have better players surrounding him, so his one shortcoming wouldn't be exposed). Luis and Azpi just keep paying the price for that and I'll always call Mourinho's mistakes in how he sets up a winger, a MD and who else is available to cover for Iva in the RB. It's a lot of compromising just because of one player. If we have a better partner for JT and Iva wasn't our RB we'd be a much better team, way more balanced that wouldn't need to play so defensively in certain kind of matches... *sigh*

[DYC. 7,542]

I must be the only one that didn't give a shit about Bertrand. Didn't think he was ever even marginally good enough to play for us.

He was a backup, almost useless as he could only do one trick when we actually needed him (basic defensive work). Even then he had more downs than ups imo, impossibly overrated player around here. He found a team of his size when he moved to Southampton.

Back to Luis. Sorry, but it pays him sort of right. I like the guy, but he forced his exit last season when Atletico were very willing to keep him and did everything they could because he wanted to play in a 'bigger team'. now he wants to go back because although he won two titles here, he wants to play more often even if it's not in a team as big (generally speaking). Some amazing career management skills there.

That said, he should be our LB starter... he won't improve his timing and defensive moves in EPL if he doesn't play and he didn't compromise much when he played, although he's definitely a downgrade to Azpi defensively wise, the same way Azpi is much worse supporting the attack. I'm just tired of the whole team paying for a messed up defense (one kamikaze, one brainfart waiting to happen, a sacrificed RB and a WC CB that's slow and should have better players surrounding him, so his one shortcoming wouldn't be exposed). Luis and Azpi just keep paying the price for that and I'll always call Mourinho's mistakes in how he sets up a winger, a MD and who else is available to cover for Iva in the RB. It's a lot of compromising just because of one player. If we have a better partner for JT and Iva wasn't our RB we'd be a much better team, way more balanced that wouldn't need to play so defensively in certain kind of matches... *sigh*

I completely agree. Most people think you're crazy for suggesting the defence needs fixing, and I can understand that tbh, but I can't help but feel it could be better. Like you pointed out, it needs too much protection for a defense that is supposed to be elite imo.

[Peace. 4,352]

I'm all for dropping Ivanovic but I'd rather buy a new RB then switch Cesar, harsh on Luis but Azpi has just simply been that good atleft back thoughts of dropping or moving him should be well down the lists of priorities.

He didn't make one single mistake that led to oppo chance last season, and what's also overlooked is Azpis amazing 1 on 1 defending is a big reason as to why Hazard gets close to a free role, well as close as your ever get under Jose if your name ain't Ronaldo. Luis hasn't been bad in fact he's been good on the whole but he simply can't compete with Azpi for those reasons mentioned especially.

If he's happy to play the same role he did last season then I'm happy to keep him here, if not fair enough goodbye and good luck.

Tomo, I agree on the fact that moving Azpilicueta away from the left-back position is not among our top priorities. Nonetheless, it should not be at the bottom of the list of priorities — and if it were to be, then it still should not be considered as unimportant. On the big picture, despite his defensive qualities, playing Azpilicueta on the left hurts and hinders the potential of the team. And anyway, if our top priority(ies) were to be fixed, then playing him on the left side would be rendered meaningless.

I do not believe that it is overlooked that his defensive ability on one on one allows Hazard to have a 'free' role. Actually, until recently it was consensually admitted that it was the reason for which he was played on that side (at least from what I do remember reading). Yet methinks it is hardly the case. Hazard produces a lot of defensive work and even though he might be the player with the less defensive duties, he still has to defend too much to suggest he has a 'free role' — do people over here not complain (and rightly so) that he has too much defensive work to do ?

As it has been mentioned a few times already on this forum, the real reason for which the spaniard is played out of position is to give protection to John Terry. The latter, despite all his qualities, can barely run and thus is very vulnerable in one against one situations — bar the moments when he is in our box while the game is slow. Without that reinforcement, the left side of our defense would be a major weakness ; and that is true enough that Luis cannot solve that problem whereas Azpi is perfect for it.

Yet, I would go even further down that explanation. Cesare is not played there to erase Terry's weakness but because he is our only defender whom is reliable in one vs one situations — and unfortunately his natural position on the other side has been yielded ad vitam æternam to that tugish serbian. The latter believes that he is a striker while Terry's partner plainly refuses to engage into one vs one and would rather drink the kool-aid. If Terry would not have to babysit Cahill, then it would not be fundamental to play what is actually a third defender as a left-back.

Thus Azpilicueta is not meant to grant a 'free-role' to Hazard but is meant to palliate Terry's deficiencies whilst Terry himself has to palliate those of his two partners on the right side. And far from granting a 'free-role' to Hazard, it isolates him as Azpi cannot provide him any help. Despite all the genius he has in him, the Belgian cannot do wonders all alone — only Messi can, to some extend, and even him needs a minimum of support. That is why the situation needs to change because it hinders greatly Hazard's efficiency. And to bounce back to your first point, moving Azpi away from the left is not the priority ; the priority is to have a dominant and proactive center-back to partner Terry, that is a proper defender. And once it is done, the next move is to move the spaniard back to the right side and play Luis at left-back or whoever is left-sided and can contribute in attack !

[RhesusReus 219]

I must be the only one that didn't give a shit about Bertrand. Didn't think he was ever even marginally good enough to play for us.

He was a backup, almost useless as he could only do one trick when we actually needed him (basic defensive work). Even then he had more downs than ups imo, impossibly overrated player around here. He found a team of his size when he moved to Southampton.

Back to Luis. Sorry, but it pays him sort of right. I like the guy, but he forced his exit last season when Atletico were very willing to keep him and did everything they could because he wanted to play in a 'bigger team'. now he wants to go back because although he won two titles here, he wants to play more often even if it's not in a team as big (generally speaking). Some amazing career management skills there.

That said, he should be our LB starter... he won't improve his timing and defensive moves in EPL if he doesn't play and he didn't compromise much when he played, although he's definitely a downgrade to Azpi defensively wise, the same way Azpi is much worse supporting the attack. I'm just tired of the whole team paying for a messed up defense (one kamikaze, one brainfart waiting to happen, a sacrificed RB and a WC CB that's slow and should have better players surrounding him, so his one shortcoming wouldn't be exposed). Luis and Azpi just keep paying the price for that and I'll always call Mourinho's mistakes in how he sets up a winger, a MD and who else is available to cover for Iva in the RB. It's a lot of compromising just because of one player. If we have a better partner for JT and Iva wasn't our RB we'd be a much better team, way more balanced that wouldn't need to play so defensively in certain kind of matches... *sigh*

Our problems stem from John Terry. He's a double edged sword. Azpi basically plays as a 3rd CB. We have a back three most of the game when attacking.

All because JT has no legs. The games where we remotely had JT by himself, he was exposed for the liability he is outside the box: Southampton and Hull City.

As long as JT is the starting CB, Jose will play Azpi beside him. He has to. JT is seriously a weakness when we are spread out in an attacking formation. But he's also a great asset when we are defending our box.

There is a reason JT was basically 4th choice CB before Jose arrived. all the managers before did not want to alter the entire team to protect him. they felt it would be easier to just drop him and move on.

But Jose clearly understands that Terry can be important to the team, both off and on the pitch, and has decided to sacrifice a large chunk of our offensive game to accommodate him.

The day JT is gone, and we have two CBs that have legs, we will see Azpi move. If it were up to me, I'd play Azpi-Ivanovic-Cahill-Luis in games were we are attacking, or have 60%+ possession, as JT offers nothing in those games, except set-pieces. And in games where we are going to be playing counter, JT starts.

[didierforever 7,349]

Our problems stem from John Terry. He's a double edged sword. Azpi basically plays as a 3rd CB. We have a back three most of the game when attacking.

All because JT has no legs. The games where we remotely had JT by himself, he was exposed for the liability he is outside the box: Southampton and Hull City.

As long as JT is the starting CB, Jose will play Azpi beside him. He has to. JT is seriously a weakness when we are spread out in an attacking formation. But he's also a great asset when we are defending our box.

There is a reason JT was basically 4th choice CB before Jose arrived. all the managers before did not want to alter the entire team to protect him. they felt it would be easier to just drop him and move on.

But Jose clearly understands that Terry can be important to the team, both off and on the pitch, and has decided to sacrifice a large chunk of our offensive game to accommodate him.

The day JT is gone, and we have two CBs that have legs, we will see Azpi move. If it were up to me, I'd play Azpi-Ivanovic-Cahill-Luis in games were we are attacking, or have 60%+ possession, as JT offers nothing in those games, except set-pieces. And in games where we are going to be playing counter, JT starts.

thank you. its so weird that people blame iva and GC when it clearly is JT around whom the team tactics are built.

azpi plays as a very defensive LB to cover for JT, which means iva is tactically used to provide us the width on the right. whats even more weird is that people actually doubt iva's defensive prowess. also, GC has had to cover for iva which has exposed his already vulnerable defense.

but, its a system that works. is it full proof - NO. does it have some chinks in its armour - HELL YES. but it works.

if we actually want to change the way we play, then the first player to be dropped will be JT (who was probably PL's best defender last season).

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Here's a wacky idea that apparently no one has thought of yet:

What if the reason we don't move Azpi back to RB and start Luis at LB is because Luis is no where near as good as either Azpi or Iva?!

Even compared to Iva with all his brain-farts, his inability to stop crosses and his often non-existing sense of tracking back, Iva is still a more solid and reliable defender who is difficult to beat 1vs1 and is a major asset on set-pieces.

Iva also offers A LOT more when he goes forward. Actually, apart from his ability to cross from deep, I've found that Luis's attacking abilities are mostly imagined. I often find that even Azpi in a couple of forward runs per game can do more damage than 10 runs Luis does.

So yeah...I think that Iva and Azpi start because they are our best two fullbacks...Too obvious to be true?