Cesc Fàbregas

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

2 hours ago, Leif said:

I'm confused. None of us are blind, and we're all good at simplifying players and their strengths/weaknesses. So, why on earth aren't we saying, hey, this guy has the exact same skillset Pirlo had, and the same weaknesses, so let's err, play him in Pirlo's position considering we're essentially using the formation he played in. 

Kante & Matic is ENOUGH defensive power for a midfield. With Fabregas BEHIND them, there is no pressure on him to be some defensive wiz, and he gets complete freedom on the ball with protection all around him, instead of being chased down by anyone with legs and not having the pace to turn away. 

He is still a great player, better than good, and it's silly to suggest he's no longer a main player before trying him in his best position. (This super deep Pirlo position is where he played during his best Arsenal days, no?) 

I've been saying this too.

I'm sure that Conte's thought of it though.  Not sure why he hasn't tried it out.  I would have thought that the League Cup was the place to give it a go.  But, he did not (obviously).

[Captain Ahmed 528]

*CF4

 

[the wes 7,212]

Chelsea want to loan out midfielder Cesc Fabregas, 29, in January. (Times - subscription required)

[Pizy 18,877]

Before its decided that he needs to go, I'd at least like to see him in a midfield 3 with Kante and Matic. Even if it's just against the likes of Hull, West Brom, Sunderland, and the rest of the relegation fodder. Surely he'd have enough protection.

I just can't imagine any of the small teams in the PL would be able to deal with a midfield with he, Kante, and Matic in it. Cesc would almost be completely free to ping it around.

Hopefully he's fully fit soon so we can give it a shot.

[BlueLyon 9,359]

2 hours ago, Pizy said:

Before its decided that he needs to go, I'd at least like to see him in a midfield 3 with Kante and Matic. Even if it's just against the likes of Hull, West Brom, Sunderland, and the rest of the relegation fodder. Surely he'd have enough protection.

I just can't imagine any of the small teams in the PL would be able to deal with a midfield with he, Kante, and Matic in it. Cesc would almost be completely free to ping it around.

Hopefully he's fully fit soon so we can give it a shot.

And who would move to the bench? Pedro? Moses? Alonso?

They might not have the creativity, but they are quicker and unlike Cesc, they put pressure on opponents. 

Unless we go back to worse (which i hope wont happen), I dont see Cesc anywhere near first 11. 

He had lot of time to improve, but he cant be faster, more agile, more tenacious. Its just not what he is. Creativity alone is simply not enough in PL. He might be able to pull of Pirlo role in italy, but not here. 

And even then, Pirlo was brilliant under pressure, while Cesc is actualy very very poor. And that makes him weak link. Much like Oscar or current Ivanovic. I hope Conte sticks to this plan of keeping them on bench.

They are good to have on bench tho and if they want to help the team, they must accept bench role. If not, they can go because for 1st 11, name is just not enough. 

[manpe 10,861]

6 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

And who would move to the bench? Pedro? Moses? Alonso?

Pedro. 3-5-2. Free role to Hazard to roam around.

Azpi - Luiz - Cahill

Moses - Kante - Fabregas - Matic - Alonso

Costa - Hazard

 

Worth a shot in a low pressure game imo. Until then no need to fix what isn't broken and better to stick with 3-4-3 with the usual line-up.

[Fernando 6,585]

2 hours ago, manpe said:

Pedro. 3-5-2. Free role to Hazard to roam around.

Azpi - Luiz - Cahill

Moses - Kante - Fabregas - Matic - Alonso

Costa - Hazard

 

Worth a shot in a low pressure game imo. Until then no need to fix what isn't broken and better to stick with 3-4-3 with the usual line-up.

I think for that team someone like modric would be amazing . But now we just need to wait and see who we can get to replace Fabregas because we definitely will need that creative mind down the road . 

[Pizy 18,877]

9 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

And who would move to the bench? Pedro? Moses? Alonso?

They might not have the creativity, but they are quicker and unlike Cesc, they put pressure on opponents. 

Unless we go back to worse (which i hope wont happen), I dont see Cesc anywhere near first 11. 

He had lot of time to improve, but he cant be faster, more agile, more tenacious. Its just not what he is. Creativity alone is simply not enough in PL. He might be able to pull of Pirlo role in italy, but not here. 

And even then, Pirlo was brilliant under pressure, while Cesc is actualy very very poor. And that makes him weak link. Much like Oscar or current Ivanovic. I hope Conte sticks to this plan of keeping them on bench.

They are good to have on bench tho and if they want to help the team, they must accept bench role. If not, they can go because for 1st 11, name is just not enough. 

Like manpe said, I'd try him in place of Pedro/Willian but only if it's against an "easy" opponent. No way I'd risk him starting against a City/Liverpool/Arsenal at this point.

If we have someone like Burnley or any one of these sides who will just sit back and park the bus with little quality in the middle of the pitch Cesc should thrive. He's still lethal when he has time and space to dictate the tempo of the game.

[manpe 10,861]

4 minutes ago, Pizy said:

Like manpe said, I'd try him in place of Pedro/Willian but only if it's against an "easy" opponent. No way I'd risk him starting against a City/Liverpool/Arsenal at this point.

If we have someone like Burnley or any one of these sides who will just sit back and park the bus with little quality in the middle of the pitch Cesc should thrive. He's still lethal when he has time and space to dictate the tempo of the game.

Not to mention the form Diego is in, he would gobble up his passes all night long.

[Sideshow Luiz 2,310]

4 hours ago, manpe said:

Pedro. 3-5-2. Free role to Hazard to roam around.

Azpi - Luiz - Cahill

Moses - Kante - Fabregas - Matic - Alonso

Costa - Hazard

 

Worth a shot in a low pressure game imo. Until then no need to fix what isn't broken and better to stick with 3-4-3 with the usual line-up.

I agree with this.  I'd like to see it too.  It's a shame that he wasn't fit before the EFL cup match.

I'd like to see it before we deem him surplus to requirements (anyone want Kenedy or Baba back as cover for Alonso?).

[DYC. 7,542]

I think people underestimate the importance of the shape. Moving to a 3-5-2 exposes you a lot more on the flanks defensively while it makes you more predictable when attacking. I'm not saying it won't work but there is absolutely no need to force Fabregas into the side because the team is functioning well. When Barca bought Fabregas he was initially forced into the team by Guardiola as well. But it messed up the balance and shape and he was eventually dropped. The team was stronger without him in it. While Pedro and Willian aren't flashy and can be frustrating on the ball, they play an important part to form the strong unit we are currently witnessing. That trumps the occasional individual brilliance Fabregas can provide right now.

What I would like to see is Conte continuing using him as an impact sub like he did earlier in the season. He proved very useful in that role. There hasn't been a need for him in recent weeks so his absence makes sense. Fabregas, Willian/Pedro and hopefully Batshuayi could provide Chelsea with some potent weapons off the bench. Something we haven't been lucky enough to have in the team in a long, long time.

[El P. 1,354]

12 hours ago, BlueLyon said:

And who would move to the bench? Pedro? Moses? Alonso?

They might not have the creativity, but they are quicker and unlike Cesc, they put pressure on opponents. 

Unless we go back to worse (which i hope wont happen), I dont see Cesc anywhere near first 11. 

He had lot of time to improve, but he cant be faster, more agile, more tenacious. Its just not what he is. Creativity alone is simply not enough in PL. He might be able to pull of Pirlo role in italy, but not here. 

And even then, Pirlo was brilliant under pressure, while Cesc is actualy very very poor. And that makes him weak link. Much like Oscar or current Ivanovic. I hope Conte sticks to this plan of keeping them on bench.

They are good to have on bench tho and if they want to help the team, they must accept bench role. If not, they can go because for 1st 11, name is just not enough. 

This. How can anyone even compare Pirlo with Fabregas is beyond me. Pirlo is God, my friends. Pirlo, Xavi, etc. Fabregas is nowhere near that level, and never was.

Pirlo was good in 3-5-2 because he has godly good technique in all aspects of creative game, and he played in Serie A.

Fabregas is one very overrated player.

[Adnane 1,101]

Cesc can only dream of Andrea's ball protection and technique, crucial skills for that particular "Pirlo" role in Conte's initial 3-5-2. 

I do think we're 20 times better without Cesc in the team, at least the actual Cesc, he has always been slow and sloppy, add 10 years of intense football to that and he's just past it, still has the casual brilliant pass in him but that's about it, can't compromise my team 85 minutes out of 90 just to afford that occasional moment. 

[DYC. 7,542]

1 hour ago, El P. said:

This. How can anyone even compare Pirlo with Fabregas is beyond me. Pirlo is God, my friends. Pirlo, Xavi, etc. Fabregas is nowhere near that level, and never was.

Pirlo was good in 3-5-2 because he has godly good technique in all aspects of creative game, and he played in Serie A.

Fabregas is one very overrated player.

Pirlo was a top, top player but the influence of Marchisio and Vidal on his ability to shine for Juve can not be underestimated. When you talk about genuinely all-round midfielders, offensively and defensively, and not lacking in any area (especially back then when they were a bit younger and in prime physical shape), those two were right up there. Allowing Pirlo to leave turned out to be big a mistake on Milan's side but the decision to let him go at the time was not nearly as outrageous as many make it out to be. Pirlo wasn't performing like a top player for Milan for a few years and the drop of quality around him in midfield played a big part in that. Less protection made him a lot more vulnerable and a lot less decisive. Vidal and Marchisio played major factors in his revival.

I disagree with the notion of him being brilliant under pressure btw. Pirlo was always vulnerable under pressure. Not like Fabregas but still. It's the reason why he played so deep. What set Pirlo apart and made him crucial and world-class despite his weaknesses was his prowess from set-pieces.

[El P. 1,354]

17 minutes ago, DYC. said:

Pirlo was a top, top player but the influence of Marchisio and Vidal on his ability to shine for Juve can not be underestimated. When you talk about genuinely all-round midfielders, offensively and defensively, and not lacking in any area (especially back then when they were a bit younger and in prime physical shape), those two were right up there. Allowing him to leave turned out to be big a mistake on Milan's side but the decision to let him go was not nearly as outrageous as many make it out to be. Pirlo wasn't performing like a top player for Milan for a few years and the drop of quality around him in midfield played a big part in that. Less protection made him a lot more vulnerable. Vidal and Marchisio played major factors in his revival.

I disagree with the notion of him being brilliant under pressure btw. Pirlo was always vulnerable under pressure. Not like Fabregas but still. It's the reason why he played so deep. What set Pirlo apart and made him crucial and world-class despite his weaknesses was his prowess from set-pieces.

I could agree that Pirlo had a lot of protection (Vidal-Marchisio / Gattuso-Seedorf-Ambrosini), but I don't think Pirlo and Fabregas were ever at the nearly same level.

Fabregas, with the same amount of protection, would still not be close to Pirlo, IMO.