Cesc Fàbregas

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

Quite a ridiculous argument.

Cesc Fabregas was already a top established full blown international footballer at the age of 19 in a time where England was the dominate league then becoming the best central midfielder in England at 23 where he became a versatile variable at the holding role, attacking midfielder, false 9, or even on the wing.

Thiago is no more than a talented footballer who's shown flair, particularly at U21 level but by no means has he established himself the way Cesc has done at his age.

[DJames 729]

I must say when I first heard of us signing him I was a bit apprehensive, thought he might have been another "has been" like Torres was for us. He has set out to prove to everyone he still has it because he still does. You go Cesc!! I'm behind you 100%

[Atlas Lion 1,223]

What is Cesc better than Thiago at?

One touch play: thiago

Short passes:thiago

Long passes: I guess Cesc

Dribbling:Thiago

Vision: Thiago

Creativity:Thiago

Flair:Thiago

Speed/agility:Thiago

Strength:Cesc

Tackling:Cesc

Technique: Thiago

Shooting:Cesc

Leadership:Thiago

Pretty much cesc vs thiago is exactly what mata vs silva is....

Mata is going to give you better stats, but SIlva is the better team player and overall player.. (I remember when this board honestly thought Mata was better than Silva).

You are absolutely taking the piss with those.

[Stats 7,056]

Assists doesnt equate to vision. If that was the case Cristiano, lampard, gerrard would be up there in terms of vision... People look too much into vision as assists..

Yet, I remember reading when mata was on chelsea he had more than all 3 barca midfielder combined assists or something crazy like that...

Vision its simple.. Thiago, like Silva can move around and adjust, however, Mata/Cesc are more static playmakers... Therefore, the option to provide the pass is greater from a player like silva/thiago vs cesc/mata. Thiago has a better passing range than Cesc and even longball passing is debateable.

Yes, assists does not equate to vision, I agree. But with Fabregas, the majority of assists I would lay down to his vision. They did not just happen from crosses or a little short pass. There have been a majority of them where he has layed of perfectly executed passes, from through balls to long range. You can see the impact his vision has had on the team already this season. Fabregas assists record is not just any stat. Those who watch him properly would understand why his assists record is so great. He reads the game better than most players and is one of the best playmakers in picking out brilliant runs from strikers.

-Schurrle's goal against Burnley. No more needs to be said. Only players who have the vision of Pirlo and Xavi can pull of that sort of pass.

-Everton 3-5 Chelsea. Assist for opening goal for Diego Costa was another example of his excellent vision. Simply through ball but it is the fact that he reads the game best and picks out runs which the defence failed to read. He has done these sort of through balls throughout his whole career.

- Chelsea 2-0 Arsenal. You want to talk about vision. His vision once again coming to full effect. He pulled of a fantastic long range pass. Not many players can pull that off and while I rate Thiago a lot he cannot pull these sort of passes of on a regular basis. Fabregas can and has. And no it is not up for debate. Fabregas is definitely a better long range passer than Thiago.

This is just while he has been at us btw. Do I really need to mention his Arsenal days. I can pick out so many games where he displayed a brilliant range of passing and recorded some brilliant assists and believe me I really could. But I will just mention/show one of my favourites. Fabregas has displayed these sort of passes numerous times throughout his career. I would have him up there in my top 5 in terms of vision.

[Nike 373]

Quite a ridiculous argument.

Cesc Fabregas was already a top established full blown international footballer at the age of 19 in a time where the England was the dominate league then becoming the best central midfielder in England at 23 where he became a versatile variable at the holding role, attacking midfielder, false 9, or even on the wing.

Thiago is no more than a talented footballer who's shown flair, particularly at U21 level but by no means has he established himself the way Cesc has done at his age.

You mean Cesc won a fa cup in 7 years at arsenal...

Thiago played a significant amount of games for when barcelona was one of the best teams ever in history, not for a team that won 1 fa cup in 7 years...

Thiago already won more titles than cesc.

[Nike 373]

Yes, assists does not equate to vision, I agree. But with Fabregas, the majority of assists I would lay down to his vision. They did not just happen from crosses or a little short pass. There have been a majority of them where he has layed of perfectly executed passes, from through balls to long range. You can see the impact his vision has had on the team already this season. Fabregas assists record is not just any stat. Those who watch him properly would understand why his assists record is so great. He reads the game better than most players and is one of the best playmakers in picking out brilliant runs from strikers.

-Schurrle's goal against Burnley. No more needs to be said. Only players who have the vision of Pirlo and Xavi can pull of that sort of pass.

-Everton 3-5 Chelsea. Assist for opening goal for Diego Costa was another example of his excellent vision. Simply through ball but it is the fact that he reads the game best and picks out runs which the defence failed to read. He has done these sort of through balls throughout his whole career.

- Chelsea 2-0 Arsenal. You want to talk about vision. His vision once again coming to full effect. He pulled of a fantastic long range pass. Not many players can pull that off and while I rate Thiago a lot he cannot pull these sort of passes of on a regular basis. Fabregas can and has. And no it is not up for debate. Fabregas is definitely a better long range passer than Thiago.

This is just while he has been at us btw. Do I really need to mention his Arsenal days. I can pick out so many games where he displayed a brilliant range of passing and recorded some brilliant assists and believe me I really could. But I will just mention/show one of my favourites. Fabregas has displayed these sort of passes numerous times throughout his career. I would have him up there in my top 5 in terms of vision.

2:04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxf-zP5EH5Q

No stats, but you know where the play is from.

[nyikolajevics 2,579]

Thiago is good but he hasn't proved his class yet. He has won a lot of trophies but played only 5 games for Spain, 100 for Barcelona and 25 for Bayern.. Fabregas was the best player and the leader of Arsenal as a teenager while Thiago was just a player from a dozen in Barca.

[adyfosiel 4]

wrong thread. i guess this is Thiagoblog's thread?

[Nike 373]

Thiago is good but he hasn't proved his class yet. He has won a lot of trophies but played only 5 games for Spain, 100 for Barcelona and 25 for Bayern.. Fabregas was the best player and the leader of Arsenal as a teenager while Thiago was just a player from a dozen in Barca.

Thiago played and started during the era that barcelona was viewed as the best team in history.

Cesc played and started when arsenal are becoming the 4th place loving trophy team they are today and won 1 fa cup in his span at arsenal...

[Stats 7,056]

You mean Cesc won a fa cup in 7 years at arsenal...

Thiago played a significant amount of games for when barcelona was one of the best teams ever in history, not for a team that won 1 fa cup in 7 years...

Thiago already won more titles than cesc.

Fabregas was at Arsenal, while Thiago stayed at Barca. Of Course Thiago would have more titles. Arsenal were and still are a much inferior team to Barca. Fabregas was a key player at a team who was competing for the league title most seasons at the age of 19 plus. Not many players on the team were on his level but he made a massive impact on the PL. Thiago stayed at Barca where it is much more easier because he is surrounded by some of the best players in the world and there only competition in that league whilst Thiago was there was Real Madrid. Not to mention that in general the PL is much more competitive than La Liga anyway.

Seriously take off the tinted glasses. Are you seriously trying to deny Thiago was more established at the age of 19/20 than Fabregas was? That is not even up for debate. If is ludicrous to think otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I like Thiago a lot but he was not established himself the same way Fabregas has. Can't believe you compared the trophy stats. Are you stating that because Fabregas won only 1 cup whilst at Arsenal it means he is not as established. Like I was saying, Thiago was at Barca. Fabregas could have stayed and his trophy stats would look the same as Thiago's. Thiago would have the same trophy record as Fabregas had he went to Arsenal as well.

2:04

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxf-zP5EH5Q

No stats, but you know where the play is from.

Watch 2:04 you said. Just watch the whole clip below to understand why his assists stats and vision is go great

[Nike 373]

Fabregas was at Arsenal, while Thiago stayed at Barca. Of Course Thiago would have more titles. Arsenal were and still are a much inferior team to Barca. Fabregas was a key player at a team who was competing for the league title most seasons at the age of 19 plus. Not many players on the team were on his level but he made a massive impact on the PL. Thiago stayed at Barca where it is much more easier because he is surrounded by some of the best players in the world and there only competition in that league whilst Thiago was there was Real Madrid. Not to mention that in general the PL is much more competitive than La Liga anyway.

Seriously take off the tinted glasses. Are you seriously trying to deny Thiago was more established at the age of 19/20 than Fabregas was? That is not even up for debate. If is ludicrous to think otherwise. Don't get me wrong, I like Thiago a lot but he was not established himself the same way Fabregas has. Can't believe you compared the trophy stats. Are you stating that because Fabregas won only 1 cup whilst at Arsenal it means he is not as established. Like I was saying, Thiago was at Barca. Fabregas could have stayed and his trophy stats would look the same as Thiago's. Thiago would have the same trophy record as Fabregas had he went to Arsenal as well.

Watch 2:04 you said. Just watch the whole clip below to understand why his assists stats and vision is go great

Cesc had henry, flying dutchman, reyes, rvp, pires, gilberto, cole and campbell the year they made the final.

no stats...

You still think Cesc long range/ball passing is obviously better?

[Stats 7,056]

Cesc had henry, flying dutchman, reyes, rvp, pires, gilberto, cole and campbell the year they made the final.

no stats...

And who were they competing with? We were becoming a strong force. United were still very strong and as Fabregas got a bit older, City entered the fray as well and like I was saying the PL is just a general tougher league than La Liga. Barca were on another level. The point being still is that Thiago was no way near as established as Cesc at the same age and you cannot deny that if Thiago left to Arsenal, he would not have made more of an impact on the team than Fabregas had. Fabregas was fantastic at Arsenal, goals and assists wise and it is not his fault that they did not win much trophies whilst he was there.

I still don't get what your clips prove. Yes, Thiago can do all the simple, slick passing like Fabregas did in the first clip I showed you but look at most of Fabregas assists. They are all a different range of passing, something which Thiago has not displayed as well as Fabregas. Fabregas changes game with just one pass, sometimes short and long. Arsenal one was the most recent and there will be many more. Not denying his talents but at least show games from an actual competitive game and not a pre-season game ffs

[Nike 373]

And who were they competing with? We were becoming a strong force. United were still very strong and as Fabregas got a bit older, City entered the fray as well and like I was saying the PL is just a general tougher league than La Liga. Barca were on another level. The point being still is that Thiago was no way near as established as Cesc at the same age and you cannot deny that if Thiago left to Arsenal, he would not have made more of an impact on the team than Fabregas had. Fabregas was fantastic at Arsenal, goals and assists wise and it is not his fault that they did not win much trophies whilst he was there.

I still don't get what your clips prove. Yes, Thiago can do all the simple, slick passing like Fabregas did in the first clip I showed you but look at most of Fabregas assists. They are all a different range of passing, something which Thiago has not displayed as well as Fabregas. Fabregas changes game with just one pass, sometimes short and long. Arsenal one was the most recent and there will be many more. Not denying his talents but at least show games from an actual competitive game and not a pre-season game ffs

WHen your on a bad team with low ambitions, someone always gets the stats ala KDB and Lukaku....(its like sterling and his midtable liverpool, someone going to get stats in a gunho offense)

Watch the second video of Thiago passing range.

Please tell me Cesc is obviously better in longball

[Stats 7,056]

WHen your on a bad team with low ambitions, someone always gets the stats ala KDB and Lukaku....(its like sterling and his midtable liverpool, someone going to get stats in a gunho offense)

Watch the second video of Thiago passing range.

Please tell me Cesc is obviously better in longball

I am going to silence you here hopefully once and for all. Explain to me why Fabregas IIRC led the assists chart in the league last season then. Once again got into double figures of assists. The 12/13 got 10 assists in the league and was up there in the top 3 in the league with assists and even in general his time at Barca he recorded 28 goals and 32 assists which is very impressive. Was Barca a bad team with low ambitions then and are you still going to compare him with Lukaku, De Bruyne and Sterling? Love to hear your comeback for this as it pretty much has shown you were proven wrong.

For me is it not up for debate. I would say Fabregas definitely has better long range passing than Thiago. Thiago has no way made the same amount of assists as Fabregas. You can show me clips but they don't equate to what Fabregas has done. Whatever you show me of Thiago's passing range, Fabregas has done that even more, that is not up for debate.

[nyikolajevics 2,579]

Thiago played and started during the era that barcelona was viewed as the best team in history.

Cesc played and started when arsenal are becoming the 4th place loving trophy team they are today and won 1 fa cup in his span at arsenal..

That's correct, but Fabregas was one the best player and the captain of Arsenal while Thiago was not that outstanding in Barca.

I think Thiago had never been a star there. He was a starter for a few months but never become intouchable and Barcelona didn't really wanted to keep him.

Fabregas was a World Cup and Europe Cup winner and one of the best midfielders in the world at the age of 23. Thiago is yet to leave his mark. He has the talent and plays in a very good team but his carreer is nowhere near to Fabregas'.

I like Thiago a lot but he needs to improve a lot in the next few years.

[Nike 373]

I am going to silence you here hopefully once and for all. Explain to me why Fabregas IIRC led the assists chart in the league last season then. Once again got into double figures of assists. The 12/13 got 10 in the league and was up there in the top 3 in the league with assists and even in general his time at Barca he recorded 28 goals and 32 assists. Was Barca a bad team with low ambitions then and are you still going to compare him with Lukaku, De Bruyne and Sterling? Love to hear your comeback for this as it pretty much has shown you were proven wrong.

For me is it not up for debate. I would say Fabregas definitely has better long range passing than Thiago. Thiago has no way made the same amount of assists as Fabregas. You can show me clips but they don't equate to what Fabregas has done. Whatever you show me of Thiago's passing range, Fabregas has done that even more, that is not up for debate.

Assists/stats is everything to you...

Ask barca fans what they really thought of Cesc and most if not all will not have a glowing statement... Also, thiago plays further back, while Cesc was an experiment false nine. Kind of like Lampard vs Xavi. Im pretty sure lampard has more goals and assists than xavi ever did, but by your logic lampard is better and has better vision, etc....

You know why barcelona had him as a false nine, rather than in their midfield? Its because his skillset wasnt good enought to play in their midfield, so they had to find a way for him to succeed...

You can tell me all the nonsense about assists, like Juan Mata, but players like Silva and Thiago will always be better in my eyes and in most Spainards...

That's correct, but Fabregas was one the best player and the captain of Arsenal while Thiago was not that outstanding in Barca.

I think Thiago had never been a star there. He was a starter for a few months but never become intouchable and Barcelona didn't really wanted to keep him.

Fabregas was a World Cup and Europe Cup winner and one of the best midfielders in the world at the age of 23. Thiago is yet to leave his mark. He has the talent and plays in a very good team but his carreer is nowhere near to Fabregas'.

I like Thiago a lot but he needs to improve a lot in the next few years.

Barcelona and Xavi wanted Thiago and Thiago was an untouchable.....Under Pep. WHich is exactly why pep made thiago his number 1 target, not CESC. Even when he was available, Pep passed him....

They said when thiago went to munich, that munich had better midfielders and he would rot on the bench, yet, he pretty much started or appeared every game he was healthy. They said munich has a guy name Kroos, but yet, Munich chose to pick thiago over kroos...

[iseah100 5,612]

Thiago is 23 and has made less than 100 appearances at club level. How is he better than Cesc? Right now he as potential, but until he can play a full season and play a major role in helping a top club he can't be better than Cesc. Ffs.

[Bir_CFC 3,455]

Assists doesnt equate to vision. If that was the case Cristiano, lampard, gerrard would be up there in terms of vision... People look too much into vision as assists..

Yet, I remember reading when mata was on chelsea he had more than all 3 barca midfielder combined assists or something crazy like that...

Vision its simple.. Thiago, like Silva can move around and adjust, however, Mata/Cesc are more static playmakers... Therefore, the option to provide the pass is greater from a player like silva/thiago vs cesc/mata. Thiago has a better passing range than Cesc and even longball passing is debateable. Vision isnt the pass that leads directly to the goal, vision can be the pass before the goal that doesnt show in the stats sheets...

Also, when you have better technique, you can make more and better passes in different situations.

Your definition of vision makes no sense to me. You literally mean the passing options available to him in his field of vision?

I define vision as the ability of being able to see a play develop before it actually develops. And of course, executing the pass required to develop that play.