Post-season review - Chelsea 2013/14

[Muzchap 8,966]

Of course what I keep bringing up is the fact that when we see the expensive purchases of say someone like Zouma and the probability of buying an expensive striker (which would mean that the likes of Lukaku or Bamford not getting a run of starts) shows that there is no signs at all that we are actually going to do what Jose claimed in the summer and integrate players from the youth and reserve squads, as lets face it why would Jose want to actually try and get someone like Chalobah, Ake or Lukaku to be given a chance when he can just ask for expensive transfers for hyped up players like Zouma who get first team experience from their parent clubs. Like I said last time we only used young players if we payed a hefty price for them and this season and its transfers indicates that we are going to be doing exactly the same, which means that young players from our own academy, no matter how well they do in the u21 matches or while out on loan won't get a chance because Mourinho wants to buy and use ready made players or does that had most of their development done at other clubs before buying them, which is what I have been arguing time and time again.

Mate have to disagree - The only place to be is right here - Mourinho needs consistency and leadership.

Prime example Utd last night - dropped Januzzi (spelling?) arguably their best player this season, but not experienced enough, so he didnt play and Utd could have won that game...

Same with our players. You only have to read the matchday threads and listen to the uproar of losing at Palace - now what would it be like if he had selected youngsters with little or no experience?

I have said for the past 3-4 seasons, we no longer have a style of play. Jose is trying to build this - then younger players can step in and play, guided by the more experienced players. We have too much to lose - gambling on these players...

I know you don't buy that - but as a Director, responsible for lots of moving parts in a multi-national, multi billion dollar business - I would never drop somebody into a critical situation without ensuring proper grounding - it's just irresponsible. Jose is doing just that.

Is Chalobah ready? Not yet in my opinion

Is Kalas ready? Again not yet

Lukaku? Drifts in and out for Everton, is he the answer to Chelsea's problems? Maybe - but he needs to accept 2nd place for a while and learn, can we afford that learning curve? Not really...

So it's never an easy decision - balancing opportunity with risk and I think Jose has done well. I mean seriously nobody called Azpi as potentially the best LB in the league - except Mourinho...

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Mate have to disagree - The only place to be is right here - Mourinho needs consistency and leadership.

Prime example Utd last night - dropped Januzzi (spelling?) arguably their best player this season, but not experienced enough, so he didnt play and Utd could have won that game...

Same with our players. You only have to read the matchday threads and listen to the uproar of losing at Palace - now what would it be like if he had selected youngsters with little or no experience?

I have said for the past 3-4 seasons, we no longer have a style of play. Jose is trying to build this - then younger players can step in and play, guided by the more experienced players. We have too much to lose - gambling on these players...

I know you don't buy that - but as a Director, responsible for lots of moving parts in a multi-national, multi billion dollar business - I would never drop somebody into a critical situation without ensuring proper grounding - it's just irresponsible. Jose is doing just that.

Is Chalobah ready? Not yet in my opinion

Is Kalas ready? Again not yet

Lukaku? Drifts in and out for Everton, is he the answer to Chelsea's problems? Maybe - but he needs to accept 2nd place for a while and learn, can we afford that learning curve? Not really...

So it's never an easy decision - balancing opportunity with risk and I think Jose has done well. I mean seriously nobody called Azpi as potentially the best LB in the league - except Mourinho...

Of course you can look at Everton who are in the exact same position as us, new manager who isimplementing hisown style of football that wasdifferent from the previous manager, yet at the same time has bled the likes of Barkley and Stones in the team, the former who was (just like many of are young prospects) was farmed off to loan (on the ideathat he has no experieance and is not ready) with not much success but as soon as he is given a run out in the first teamwith actual faith from the manager and hasbeen such asuccess that their are major callsfor him to be on the starting 11 England team for the world cup.

So Jose, whoisbuilding the teamfor the future and iscreating thislong term identity and did not need to win anything in the near future, could not introduce one young prospect which he claimed he would do throughtout last summer? Surely this would be the best time so they can get the so called experience you desire (which Ithink is just a bollocks excuse to not use them but just farm them off on loan) when thereisno expectationfor the team apart from a top 4 place. The fact that we are still buying ready made talent in thelikes of Salah and Zouma (which is what we have been doing ever since Roman took over) shows to me that nothing has changed.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Of course you can look at Everton who are in the exact same position as us,

What a ludicrous statement to make. Even with the caveats that followed there are vast differences between a manager returning to a club and Everton taking a punt on someone like Martinez. The level of expectation in the two clubs are worlds apart.

The fact that we are still buying ready made talent in thelikes of Salah and Zouma (which is what we have been doing ever since Roman took over) shows to me that nothing has changed.

Neither Salah nor Zouma are 'ready made talents'. They're both young prospects who are really no-lose punts, a bit like De Bruyne was.

I simply think your expectations are wildly out of kilter with those of any reasonable football supporter. We HAD to build a foundation first which is why the back four has hardly changed (not that fans like you were moaning when we went on the winning streak over the winter months) and it has nothing to do with a refusal to play young players. Ashley Cole, Ryan Bertrand, Michael Essien and Tomas Kalas were all treated fairly similarly. In fact Bertrand was allowed to go on loan and Ake was promoted to the first-team squad.

Whilst I am very sympathetic to those who want to see young players promoted at this club, beyond Chalobah and Lukaku I don't think any other player could really have been given a shot this season. If this continues next season then your point would be valid but I think you're prematurely eviscerating Mourinho to fit the agenda you held before he was appointed as head coach.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

Of course you can look at Everton who are in the exact same position as us, new manager who isimplementing hisown style of football that wasdifferent from the previous manager, yet at the same time has bled the likes of Barkley and Stones in the team, the former who was (just like many of are young prospects) was farmed off to loan (on the ideathat he has no experieance and is not ready) with not much success but as soon as he is given a run out in the first teamwith actual faith from the manager and hasbeen such asuccess that their are major callsfor him to be on the starting 11 England team for the world cup.

So Jose, whoisbuilding the teamfor the future and iscreating thislong term identity and did not need to win anything in the near future, could not introduce one young prospect which he claimed he would do throughtout last summer? Surely this would be the best time so they can get the so called experience you desire (which Ithink is just a bollocks excuse to not use them but just farm them off on loan) when thereisno expectationfor the team apart from a top 4 place. The fact that we are still buying ready made talent in thelikes of Salah and Zouma (which is what we have been doing ever since Roman took over) shows to me that nothing has changed.

Mate I have been reading your responses. With all due respect, though you are entitled of your own opinion, but that is a lot of negativity. You don't build the team's main spine in a blink. There is a great difference between Salah/Zouma and the youngsters at the academy. These players have competed at decent levels. Swiss league ain't much, but surely it is stronger than the youth competitions. You need to loan out youngsters. They need to get some contact and feel of the game. When you loan them you basically minimize your risks by letting them gain experience (though not extensive) and you get to test their adaptation without having risk on your team's results. The expectations of Chelsea are much higher than Everton's. You cannot compare both. No body, expects Everton to compete for the title every year, or be in the UCL every season. You have to take all things in consideration, not just from one narrow angle.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

What a ludicrous statement to make. Even with the caveats that followed there are vast differences between a manager returning to a club and Everton taking a punt on someone like Martinez. The level of expectation in the two clubs are worlds apart.

Neither Salah nor Zouma are 'ready made talents'. They're both young prospects who are really no-lose punts, a bit like De Bruyne was.

Of course they are in the same position (apart from where they are currently standing in the tables). You say Mourinho is here for the long term for Chelsea, so is Martinez, you say that Jose is trying to build his own style without expectations to win things for the team, so is Martinez.

And who will be getting the first team chances in the next season or two. It won't be the likesof Chalobah and Ake (they will probably be sent of on loans) it will by the players we just spent over £20 millions pounds for. Both who have gotten first team experience for their clubs (and in Salah's case Champions league experience), and then soon after that we will probably make more large money transfers for other players who are either older or were molded by their parent clubs. That is what I'm seeing at the moment.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Mate I have been reading your responses. With all due respect, though you are entitled of your own opinion, but that is a lot of negativity. You don't build the team's main spine in a blink. There is a great difference between Salah/Zouma and the youngsters at the academy. These players have competed at decent levels. Swiss league ain't much, but surely it is stronger than the youth competitions. You need to loan out youngsters. They need to get some contact and feel of the game. When you loan them you basically minimize your risks by letting them gain experience (though not extensive) and you get to test their adaptation without having risk on your team's results. The expectations of Chelsea are much higher than Everton's. You cannot compare both. No body, expects Everton to compete for the title every year, or be in the UCL every season. You have to take all things in consideration, not just from one narrow angle.

The problem is that as seen many times it just becomes a way of trying to push back the issue of trying to give them chances into the squad for as long as possible. Taking the view that I think that the whole issue of expeirence is just a bollocks excuse that isused to try and justify why they can't get a run in the first team, the problem iswhen do we reach a point where they have the required 'experience' to be given a chance in the team. First its they have no experience at all, so they are shipped out to some lower division team, then its they have no top flight experience, so the club tries to ship them out to one, then its'but they don't have any experience playing for us' or no Champions league experience, so their chances are stalled again, then by that time we buy someone like Zouma (who lates faces was getting massive amounts of hype andalready has over 40 appearances in Ligue 1) who becuase we spent a hefty sum of money (both Zouma and Salah cost usover £20 million pounds) get priority andso we are back to square one.

In all honesty the same arguments are going back and forth and there is no point repeating them, the phase 'agree to disagree' comes to mind now.

[The only place to be 11,313]

Of course they are in the same position (apart from where they are currently standing in the tables). You say Mourinho is here for the long term for Chelsea, so is Martinez, you say that Jose is trying to build his own style without expectations to win things for the team, so is Martinez.

And who will be getting the first team chances in the next season or two. It won't be the likesof Chalobah and Ake (they will probably be sent of on loans) it will by the players we just spent over £20 millions pounds for. Both who have gotten first team experience for their clubs (and in Salah's case Champions league experience), and then soon after that we will probably make more large money transfers for other players who are either older or were molded by their parent clubs. That is what I'm seeing at the moment.

You're being utterly ridiculous if you actually think that Everton are in the same position as us. Seriously, you're either trolling or you're stupid. Martinez has the freedom to take punts on the likes of Barkley, Stones and Deulefeu partly out of lowered expectations and partly out of necessity.

Ake probably will be sent on-loan because he needs it. He's unlikely to get ahead of anyone in the first-team so why not give him first-team experience? Chalobah has a chance next season if Mikel and Lampard do go, plus he's versatile so is good to have on the bench. Bamford needs a Premier League loan next season, whilst Baker has probably outgrown the reserves.

Your arguments now are becoming ridiculous. I asked you when you would've liked to have seen someone like Kalas get a chance and you couldn't answer. There's no point in talking to someone who speaks in generalities without actually talking in real terms.

In all honesty the same arguments are going back and forth and there is no point repeating them, the phase 'agree to disagree' comes to mind now.

I think that's best. The funny thing is that no-one seems to agree with you.

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

Rubber bullets - . As per usual you appear on the forum when Chelsea lose, and the main target of your vitriol is Mourinho, though it used to be Drogba/Terry/Lampard -three of Chelseas greatest players ever.

It just seems you want a reaction, and to be noticed as I have never seen anything positive at all. I find it difficult to comprehend you as the usual spastic troll, because your arguments are constructed with a level of articulacy, but by the same token I could never imagine you singing a Chelsea song. If we get a result tonight, lets have a positive post mate, eh ?

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

You're being utterly ridiculous if you actually think that Everton are in the same position as us. Seriously, you're either trolling or you're stupid. Martinez has the freedom to take punts on the likes of Barkley, Stones and Deulefeu partly out of lowered expectations and partly out of necessity.

Ake probably will be sent on-loan because he needs it. He's unlikely to get ahead of anyone in the first-team so why not give him first-team experience? Chalobah has a chance next season if Mikel and Lampard do go, plus he's versatile so is good to have on the bench. Bamford needs a Premier League loan next season, whilst Baker has probably outgrown the reserves.

Your arguments now are becoming ridiculous. I asked you when you would've liked to have seen someone like Kalas get a chance and you couldn't answer. There's no point in talking to someone who speaks in generalities without actually talking in real terms.

I think that's best. The funny thing is that no-one seems to agree with you although I'm sure you're the type of person who takes that as a badge of honour thinking it makes your views distinguished, in the same way the guy who daubs his shit on toilet walls thinks he has 'unique artistic vision'.

Of course I can take pride in that I'm not the one who has to use personal insults (which lets face it shows you as a petty man who has some disturbing superiorty complex) to get my views across. Of course with your ego being as it is with you being a self proclamined "true fan" becuase you have the the financial advantages of being able to tend home matches then I can't change the fact that you will always have your head in the clouds even when the man you currently defend to death activily chides the way you support them in the stadium

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/15/chelsea-crystal-palace-premier-league-match-report

[The only place to be 11,313]

Of course I can take pride in that I'm not the one who has to use personal insults (which lets face it shows you as a petty man who has some disturbing superiorty complex) to get my views across. Of course with your ego being as it is with you being a self proclamined "true fan" becuase you have the the financial advantages of being able to tend home matches then I can't change the fact that you will always have your head in the clouds even when the man you currently defend to death activily chides the way you support them in the stadium

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2013/dec/15/chelsea-crystal-palace-premier-league-match-report

He's got a very valid point about the crowd noise, but the funny thing is that whilst you may not resort to insults you do like to lie about me in much the same way Henrique does.

I don't defend Mourinho to death. I have in fact criticised him this season for the Eto'o deal and the Lukaku loan amongst other things. The thing is that I'm prepared to be patient with the man and give him time to turn around a club that has been managed so poorly for the last few years. I'm also grateful to him for completely altering the atmosphere at the Bridge. It was toxic at points last season and fans we actually fighting with each other for the first time I can remember. Now there's a sense of pride back in the club, like we're all pulling together and moving in the right direction behind a man we all love.

That's why I find it so hard to believe people think this season could be such a failure. There's a renewed sense of optimism amongst every Chelsea supporter that I know or randomly bump into, that when you do see fans so insistent on looking for things to criticise that it does make me wonder what these fans want.

Anyway, let's just agree that you disagree with every other Chelsea supporter

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

The problem is that as seen many times it just becomes a way of trying to push back the issue of trying to give them chances into the squad for as long as possible. Taking the view that I think that the whole issue of expeirence is just a bollocks excuse that isused to try and justify why they can't get a run in the first team, the problem iswhen do we reach a point where they have the required 'experience' to be given a chance in the team. First its they have no experience at all, so they are shipped out to some lower division team, then its they have no top flight experience, so the club tries to ship them out to one, then its'but they don't have any experience playing for us' or no Champions league experience, so their chances are stalled again, then by that time we buy someone like Zouma (who lates faces was getting massive amounts of hype andalready has over 40 appearances in Ligue 1) who becuase we spent a hefty sum of money (both Zouma and Salah cost usover £20 million pounds) get priority andso we are back to square one.

In all honesty the same arguments are going back and forth and there is no point repeating them, the phase 'agree to disagree' comes to mind now.

Just one thing though, you got it all wrong when it comes to experience mate. No offense at all. 18 yr olds playing against other 18 yr olds doesn't give you a fair assessment. They need to be tested physically as well as tactically and mentally. The reason Zouma and Salah were brought in is not by all means because they are superstars. It is because they have POTENTIAL. i.e they showed the good foundations as far as physicality, mentality and technicality. It does not guarantee them a starting spot. But they show promising signs of development and being future stars. For them to start they would have to take it to a higher level, and earn it. Again they will need time i.e FURTHER EXPERIENCE with the EPL, the system and the rest of their teammates. They will need to have playtime to prove themselves and they actually have to earn that right.

Zouma did pretty well in Ligue 1 and Salah did pretty well in the Swiss league and UCL. Which will be more risky on your opinion, subbing in Zouma or Salah in a game or subbing in a youth who has no experience at all? Please don't tell me it is the same risk cause it ain't . I am quite sure that if a youth from Chelsea was loaned and shinned, the club will be wanting him on the team, but I don't think he will start, just like Salah, Zouma, Schurrle ( who actually has proved that he can be of use to the squad). Unless that kid shows EXCEPTIONAL attributes, I think he should be loaned, get to play for a higher level than the academy's level. Get to test his physicality and mentality in the way he adapts to a new system. What is there to worry about? If any of those youngsters are good, they will shine and will come back to Chelsea for a shot at the first team. Many other teams do the same thing, not only in football, but other sports too. It is basically minimizing risk (as far as the game and matches are concerned) and better financially.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

Rubber bullets - . As per usual you appear on the forum when Chelsea lose, and the main target of your vitriol is Mourinho, though it used to be Drogba/Terry/Lampard -three of Chelseas greatest players ever.

It just seems you want a reaction, and to be noticed as I have never seen anything positive at all. I find it difficult to comprehend you as the usual spastic troll, because your arguments are constructed with a level of articulacy, but by the same token I could never imagine you singing a Chelsea song. If we get a result tonight, lets have a positive post mate, eh ?

And did I just not say yesterday that all of this could be redeemed if we did win the Champions league (and judging by the Man Utd game where Munich showed that they can have off days against mid table clubs like Utd (never thought I would say that) shows we still have a fighting chance). i may not be like many others seeing the future as this bright and happy utopia but that does not mean I still opportunities for us for success (although it seems if I say that I get grouped as a glory hunting supporter)

Unfortunately because I'm incredibly sceptical of the whole issue of where this club is actually going under Mourinho (of course I admit I'm showing much more pessimism then most the majority of Chelsea fans to say the least) and so far nothing is being shown to me so far that I think is to the contrary I can't do anything but make posts that are on the negative sides (of course you can always look on some of the player's pages like hazard, Schuurle and Ramires where (as shocking as it is) I do post positive ideas that sing their praises). The only other option would be to stop posting but that would be defeating the objective of a public forum where opinions (as long as to what like as like you said are constructive) of all forms should be welcomed.

[boshman 1,073]

Cannot believe this debate is still going on.....

As everyone can see from most of the posts and now from the poll, the majority agree it has been a success. End of.

[Mohammed Seif 1,451]

And did I just not say yesterday that all of this could be redeemed if we did win the Champions league (and judging by the Man Utd game where Munich showed that they can have off days against mid table clubs like Utd (never thought I would say that) shows we still have a fighting chance). i may not be like many others seeing the future as this bright and happy utopia but that does not mean I still opportunities for us for success (although it seems if I say that I get grouped as a glory hunting supporter)

Unfortunately because I'm incredibly sceptical of the whole issue of where this club is actually going under Mourinho (of course I admit I'm showing much more pessimism then most the majority of Chelsea fans to say the least) and so far nothing is being shown to me so far that I think is to the contrary I can't do anything but make posts that are on the negative sides (of course you can always look on some of the player's pages like hazard, Schuurle and Ramires where (as shocking as it is) I do post positive ideas that sing their praises). The only other option would be to stop posting but that would be defeating the objective of a public forum where opinions (as long as to what like as like you said are constructive) of all forms should be welcomed.

LOL. Come on mate you seriously don't really need to win a trophy to have optimism or be positive. It is just a matter of attitude towards things. That include your club

[Special Juan 28,142]

I had a debate with my shadow once.....I won.

[Fulham Broadway 17,332]

And did I just not say yesterday that all of this could be redeemed if we did win the Champions league (and judging by the Man Utd game where Munich showed that they can have off days against mid table clubs like Utd (never thought I would say that) shows we still have a fighting chance). i may not be like many others seeing the future as this bright and happy utopia but that does not mean I still opportunities for us for success (although it seems if I say that I get grouped as a glory hunting supporter)

Unfortunately because I'm incredibly sceptical of the whole issue of where this club is actually going under Mourinho (of course I admit I'm showing much more pessimism then most the majority of Chelsea fans to say the least) and so far nothing is being shown to me so far that I think is to the contrary I can't do anything but make posts that are on the negative sides (of course you can always look on some of the player's pages like hazard, Schuurle and Ramires where (as shocking as it is) I do post positive ideas that sing their praises). The only other option would be to stop posting but that would be defeating the objective of a public forum where opinions (as long as to what like as like you said are constructive) of all forms should be welcomed.

So, do you feel happy when Chelsea win ?

[The only place to be 11,313]

Cannot believe this debate is still going on.....

As everyone can see from most of the posts and now from the poll, the majority agree it has been a success. End of.

It's April 2nd and there's a possibility of us doing the double still. The clocks have gone forward and we're still in the title race, not shitting ourselves about missing out on the CL.

No-one's started a thread about the 'Next Chelsea Manager' yet (although there's still time), there aren't any crap chants about the manager not caring about us, Mikel is barely getting a mention, one of our players is one of the players of the year and even Barcelona are getting sanctioned by FIFA. :carlo2:

The sun is shining, the birds are singing, it's summer dress weather and we've got the best coach in the world. If you ignore the dippers then it's actually quite a nice time to be a Chelsea supporter.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

He's got a very valid point about the crowd noise, but the funny thing is that whilst you may not resort to insults you do like to lie about me in much the same way Henrique does.

I don't defend Mourinho to death. I have in fact criticised him this season for the Eto'o deal and the Lukaku loan amongst other things. The thing is that I'm prepared to be patient with the man and give him time to turn around a club that has been managed so poorly for the last few years. I'm also grateful to him for completely altering the atmosphere at the Bridge. It was toxic at points last season and fans we actually fighting with each other for the first time I can remember. Now there's a sense of pride back in the club, like we're all pulling together and moving in the right direction behind a man we all love.

That's why I find it so hard to believe people think this season could be such a failure. There's a renewed sense of optimism amongst every Chelsea supporter that I know or randomly bump into, that when you do see fans so insistent on looking for things to criticise that it does make me wonder what these fans want.

Anyway, let's just agree that you disagree with every other Chelsea supporter

I can only form my opinion about you from the way you act on the forum and what you say when arguing with me. Unfortunately resulting to insults about me (which you have done so twice on this thread) does not give way for me having a good opinion of unlike someone such as Mohammed Seif who has been nothing but respectful and kept his language polite and therefore I respect him and his opinions, so forgive me if you accuse me of lying about you.

[Special Juan 28,142]

So, do you feel happy when Chelsea win ?

This is him when we win.

[Rubber bullets 1,183]

So, do you feel happy when Chelsea win ?

Yes,but that doesn't mean I'm not still skeptical about how the club is moving forwards and whether we are heading for the right direction. I remember when we won the double under Carlo and at the beginning of the next season when we had thrash West Brom and Wigan 6-0 , there were quite few posters that were incredibly pessimistic of the season and were making a number of posts criticism the squad for its age and complaining about the football we played even after we scored 12 goals in the first two games. People can stil be pessimistic about stuff even when we are on a good form and some people see the future as sunshine and daisies..