Will any youngsters make it at Chelsea anymore?

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

Well what the fuck do you want the club to do then? It's up to the players and their effort and talent. It's not like the club has a conspiracy against its youth. If we have the cash to buy X player, why would we pick the less good Y instead for the mere reason he comes from the academy?

 

People are quick to talk about Barcelona's academy but Barcelona just inherited a golden generation. Not to mention several of their academy players (such as Pique and Fabregas) were actually rebought because they were originally snubbed in favor of others which the club BOUGHT. There's nothing special about it. Look at the top 20 most expensive transfers in football history and Barcelona is all over it.

So your point is that academies are useless?

Even if you have the cash to buy X player, fans love to see a homegrown youngster break into the first team.

It's a completely different feeling as a fan, when you see a 19 or 20 year old take his first steps with the main XI, as you know deep down that this kid was produced by your academy

As for your example about Fabregas and Pique....from what I recall, it was Fabregas' choice to join Arsenal (even though Barca wanted to keep him) and Pique chose Manchester United when he was 16...because Barca could not offer him a professional contract at that age.

 

[LukakutoStamford 779]

If you want Chelsea to be a top club in the world then their current strategy is the only way to go. It's difficult to find players who at 12 are going to develop players for a CL team in the Premier League. Chelsea is being quite savvy be understanding the concept that there are only 23 spots and for every 20 buys maybe 2-4 will come good. In order to have continuous success you need to have succession at the academy level where maybe 1 out of 100+ will come good, buying up 18-21 year old players, buying 22-25 year old players and 26+ players.

 

If Courtois doesn't start for Chelsea (barring injury/ extraordinary circumstances) then a massive mistake was made by management. Lukaku may not be a fit for what Jose wants to do. As for the others it's going to depend how Chelsea moves forward in the transfer market this summer. Obviously striker needs to be fixed and at most only of the current three strikers should be on the squad for 2014-2015. There are still issues in the middle of the pitch as well as centerback and fullback.

 

Jose seems very clear about streamlining players that don't fit his vision. He sold Mata to a direct rival (at least they were now they will go through a 1991 Liverpool like drought). De Bruyne was sold (lost confidence) and I wouldn't be surprised if Lampard, Essien, Mikel, Cole are out the door this summer.

 

Jose wants top quality (re world class) talent at all positions for players 21-28. He wants them to be defensively responsible and he wants them to play fast and technical football.

[iseah100 5,612]

Well what the fuck do you want the club to do then? It's up to the players and their effort and talent. It's not like the club has a conspiracy against its youth. If we have the cash to buy X player, why would we pick the less good Y instead for the mere reason he comes from the academy?
 
People are quick to talk about Barcelona's academy but Barcelona just inherited a golden generation. Not to mention several of their academy players (such as Pique and Fabregas) were actually rebought because they were originally snubbed in favor of others which the club BOUGHT. There's nothing special about it. Look at the top 20 most expensive transfers in football history and Barcelona is all over it.

So your point is that academies are useless?


Even if you have the cash to buy X player, fans love to see a homegrown youngster break into the first team.


It's a completely different feeling as a fan, when you see a 19 or 20 year old take his first steps with the main XI, as you know deep down that this kid was produced by your academy


As for your example about Fabregas and Pique....from what I recall, it was Fabregas' choice to join Arsenal (even though Barca wanted to keep him) and Pique chose Manchester United when he was 16...because Barca could not offer him a professional contract at that age.


 

They're not useless, but top teams don't put as effort much into their academies because they can buy players. Also, why have a homegrown talent if he's not world class talent and could possibly hinder the success of your team? It's nice, but inly if it's a great player like Terry.

[5354 204]

The 'youngsters' who "progressed" was Hazard/Oscar/Mikel, wasnt it? However we all knew that they are all not genuine local home-grown.

 

The last real home grown talent was JT. (Including other youngsters like Carton Cole/Glen Johnson/Robert Huth/Fabio Borini)

 

If we really want to nurture youngsters, we need a manager who has more faith into youngsters. David Moyes places alot of faith on Januzaj and I do see him as a decent talent. Quick pace and full of trickery.

 

However the same goes for some of our youngsters, but they had alot of hype but failed to develop because the club does not give them a chance. When they are farmed out to loan, the expectations stays and they fall short of it. Football game is a team game and not by individual talents, it is unfair for media or public to rate their talents or improvement due to the success of the team(some teams are just not as good as they are) they are in. Off course if you are a emerging striker and scoring goals, you get the credits e.g - Sturridge at Bolton.

 

Take if you are a defender or midfielder, it is difficult for you to impress on a mediocre team. McEachran is a great example, good player but failed to shine because of the medicore team members. I believe if we made him stay and blood him in the team, he might provide something different. The loans out to different clubs does not aid his development to play different philosophies of football.

[5354 204]

I am sorry but I dont see Ake progressing out. As a CB, he does not look strong/sturdy/tall enough. Unless he becomes an intelligent defender to anticipate moves (like Carlvano)

[NishC300 1,865]

the first and the most important thing for youth to develop in any team is the manager. lets take mceachran as an example. the 17 year old boy was shown incredible faith in, by carlo ancelotti. if carlo had continued i am sure he would have integrated mceachran in the team, moulded him, worked on his defects and made him into a far better player than he is right now. but due to absolutely no consistency in the managers, in fact due to the managerial chairs that has been going on at the club, its not suprising that no player has come thru the ranks. why would an interim manager like hiddink/rafa even care about our youth? managers like avram, rdm and avb had enough pressure to deal with anyways than risk losing a couple of matches here and there cos of trying to promote the youth.

 

but now i feel things are going to be a lot different. jose is here to say. u can take a look at the way we have dealt in the transfer window, u can take a look at the profile of our players and simply say we are JOSE's team. in a couple of years, i am pretty sure some of the youth will be given a chance. i have no doubt about JOSE's eye for talent and i have no doubt that any1 deserving would make the team in the coming years.

 

my prediction.

 

bamford as squad - ST

traore, piazon as AMs

chalobah  as DM

ake as DEF.

 

from the current group of loaned out ACADEMY players (players like courtois, lukaku, romeu are not counted).

 

Mourinho isn't exactly famed for promoting youth...

If anything Rafa (even as interim manager) did more for the youth here, gave Ake some games (tried Piazon in a league game v Villa and RDM played Piazon in the C1 Cup).

 

With every year passing by and every player being loaned out I'm losing more and more faith. I want a proper Chels, our academy kid in the team again, one who will bleed blue.

 

Wilshere is only a couple of years elder than McEachran....... (hard to imagine)

 

I don't see how promoting youth sacrifices trophies, even a major club full of superstars like Real Madrid plays some of its younger players (Jese, Casmeiro, Morata etc does Illaramendi count?). Barcelona manage to give younger players chances in their 1st team every now and then (they started Cuenca in a semi-final against us). Bayern also have a successful youth academy (Muller, Schweinsteiger, Lahm). Borussia Dortmund have always encouraged their younger players. Arsenal played young Miyachi against us have tried to integrate Serge Gnabry into the side (and have a reputation for always encouraging youth). So how does bringing youth players make you weaker?

[Excalibur KTBFFH 109]

We can't bring in young players when we change manager every season. No stability whatsoever at the club. It's really that simple. 

[didierforever 7,349]

 

Mourinho isn't exactly famed for promoting youth...

If anything Rafa (even as interim manager) did more for the youth here, gave Ake some games (tried Piazon in a league game v Villa and RDM played Piazon in the C1 Cup).

 

RDM was literally playing MAZACAR in every match with no rotation whatsoever. with marin injured, he dint have an option but to start piazon in the match to give atleast one of them a rest.

same goes for rafa, with romeu and mikel injured towards the end of the season, our only 2 options for the pivot were rambo and lamps, add to that, that DL was playing literally every match either as a DM or a CB and u had another no brainer in starting ake to give them a rest.

 

varane, morata are just a couple of examples of promoting youth. and jose so far has not stayed long enough in clubs to actually make a significant change. here its going to be a massively different story. jose is not just going to play them one or 2 matches, he has to shape their careers. which i feel is what will exactly happen. 

[Hutcho 8,443]

I would set the O/U at 2.5. And by make it i mean establisg themselves as an important member of the team. Not get one appearance in the capital one cup.

[didierforever 7,349]

 

Wilshere is only a couple of years elder than McEachran....... (hard to imagine)

 

I don't see how promoting youth sacrifices trophies, even a major club full of superstars like Real Madrid plays some of its younger players (Jese, Casmeiro, Morata etc does Illaramendi count?). Barcelona manage to give younger players chances in their 1st team every now and then (they started Cuenca in a semi-final against us). Bayern also have a successful youth academy (Muller, Schweinsteiger, Lahm). Borussia Dortmund have always encouraged their younger players. Arsenal played young Miyachi against us have tried to integrate Serge Gnabry into the side (and have a reputation for always encouraging youth). So how does bringing youth players make you weaker?

u kinda step on your own point there when u say "how promoting youth sacrifices trophies" and then go on to say something about arse-anal. they are the perfect example of youth overkill. i would take buying players rather than having players like andre santos playing for chelsea. 

 

barca and bayern are lucky to get a "group" of great players together. if we had players like iniesta, xavi, messi, schweini, lahm, muller, kroos, i am pretty sure our club would use them. unfortunately, carlton cole, mancienne, jack cork hardly make that grade. 

[The only place to be 11,313]

Eventually yes, but it takes time. We completely overhauled the academy upon Roman's arrival so the results will take time to filter through, but a decent comparison might be Barca. Cruyff revolutionised La Masia in 1979 but it was about a decade until Amor made his debut for the first team. Then it was a fairly steady stream, although still rather limited. Manchester's class of '92 is an exception as well, but I think if we can get stability in the managerial position then there's too much talent and too great a will in the club to promote youth for some young players not to make it here.

[Stats 7,055]

Will be interesting to see if Lukaku becomes a regular at Chelsea...he's still got a long way to go in terms of development

I think we'll see Courtois and Piazon next season...with the likes of Zouma, Traore in the long run.

Piazon is not ready for the first team yet. He is doing well on loan but he is playing in a much inferior league and Lukaku is ahead of him right now in overall ability. Lukaku has more chance of making it next season than Piazon as he is playing regularly in the PL and has the physical tools needed for us imo.

[Reddish-Blue 2,347]

Eventually yes, but it takes time. We completely overhauled the academy upon Roman's arrival so the results will take time to filter through, but a decent comparison might be Barca. Cruyff revolutionised La Masia in 1979 but it was about a decade until Amor made his debut for the first team. Then it was a fairly steady stream, although still rather limited. Manchester's class of '92 is an exception as well, but I think if we can get stability in the managerial position then there's too much talent and too great a will in the club to promote youth for some young players not to make it here.

To be honest, other than Southampton's current production line...most of the EPL teams aren't really producing that much youth.

[BlueLion. 21,491]

They'll make it, but they won't play for Chelsea. Look at how well Liam Bridcutt and Jack Cork have done. Not good enough for us, but both playing Premier League football - albeit for two clubs that really do emphasise the importance of youth team players. 

 

I fully expect Ryan Bertrand to be sold. Kakuta likewise. I doubt van Aanholt will ever get a sniff. Even the extremely promising ones like Aké and Chalobah and Bamford will probably never play for us on a full-time basis. 

[The only place to be 11,313]

Maybe the FA could help us out and let clubs have B teams that play professional football in the lower leagues. A mini-Chelsea playing the same type of football so they can slot seamlessly into the first-team.

[NishC300 1,865]

u kinda step on your own point there when u say "how promoting youth sacrifices trophies" and then go on to say something about arse-anal. they are the perfect example of youth overkill. i would take buying players rather than having players like andre santos playing for chelsea. 

 

barca and bayern are lucky to get a "group" of great players together. if we had players like iniesta, xavi, messi, schweini, lahm, muller, kroos, i am pretty sure our club would use them. unfortunately, carlton cole, mancienne, jack cork hardly make that grade. 

RDM was literally playing MAZACAR in every match with no rotation whatsoever. with marin injured, he dint have an option but to start piazon in the match to give atleast one of them a rest.

same goes for rafa, with romeu and mikel injured towards the end of the season, our only 2 options for the pivot were rambo and lamps, add to that, that DL was playing literally every match either as a DM or a CB and u had another no brainer in starting ake to give them a rest.

 

varane, morata are just a couple of examples of promoting youth. and jose so far has not stayed long enough in clubs to actually make a significant change. here its going to be a massively different story. jose is not just going to play them one or 2 matches, he has to shape their careers. which i feel is what will exactly happen. 

 

RDM did play Piazon in the C1 Cup, so far this season all we've seen is Lewis Baker get some a few mins in the Cup, we didn't even play any youngsters in our 1st game in the C1 Cup....

[Muzchap 8,966]

Maybe the FA could help us out and let clubs have B teams that play professional football in the lower leagues. A mini-Chelsea playing the same type of football so they can slot seamlessly into the first-team.

I suggested this last year :)

It didn't go down to well :)

But - in order to make it successful - you do need managerial stability AND a footballing identity :)

[didierforever 7,349]

 
RDM did play Piazon in the C1 Cup, so far this season all we've seen is Lewis Baker get some a few mins in the Cup, we didn't even play any youngsters in our 1st game in the C1 Cup....

Have u seen our squad? Kdb and mata dint get oppurtunities to play and hence left/were sold. Essien left cos of lack of games. We had 3 strikers, 6 Ams, 5 dms, 8 defenders which is 22 players for 10 outfield positions. And u somehow want mou to play youth? Where, when how?

Compare this to last season where we had 2 strikers, 5 ams and 4 dms. Which includes marin and romeu, hanve the oppurtunutiea to yiuth