No.10 Role

[Rmpr 8,977]

Hutcho, I dont even have to answer you because Barbara and MinSeok already did it for me...

[Hutcho 8,443]

you guys really make me feel self-conscious about my ability to communicate in English... where did I even say who should play there and who shouldn't? Are you sure you didn't quote the wrong person?

My only point was that comparing stats from a guy adapting to a completely different and much more demanding football to a guy that has been completely adapted already isn't fair because the former will have his stats damaged because of his adaptation issues... I didn't say Mata or Oscar should play CAM because I got over it the moment Mata started playing well again without being a liability defensively. For me now it doesn't matter as long as the two of them are there.

then my second post I exhaustively explained the same thing, being more detailed about what makes it so hard for south american to adapt in Europe and still I didn't say who should and shouldn't play there.

Also I commentated on Mata closing the gap by becoming a more complete player under the influence and management by Mourinho and said that Oscar was also closing the creativity gap, although I believe Mata will always be more creative and Oscar will always be the more complete player.

Unlike most of you I don't see this as a competition... now that Mata is not only finally performing well again, but also contributing more to the team work-rate I'm too happy to get into petty arguments about who's best because guess what? Both play for Chelsea. So in some matches one will be better than other, while in another bunch of matches it'll be the opposite.

I couldn't resist though in my last post commentating that Oscar was statistically better because well, he was... So now use that info and have a field day or lose sleep at night because of that... or you know, just ignore it.

I'm saying that comparing the 2 or even allowing for the fact that Oscar is younger and has a potentially higher ceiling is irrelevant. You said:

"I said it once, and I'll repeat... comparing a 21yo Brazilian first season in Europe - in England nonetheless - with a guy well established there for two season is unfair.

we should compare their stats this season... (ignoring the age gap between them)."

To which i am saying that right now we can only go off what we know and not potential. Which is why i would play Mata over Oscar at the CAM positon. I never said you explicitly said you would pick one over the other. But that it is irrelevant right now. Oscar will get better over time and improve, as will his stats, though IMO, right now mata should be the one to play there.

We are debating this because it is a chelsea forum. Everyone is happy they both play for us. People are having a debate about who should start in the no.10 role.

Just because people say they want Mata in there doesn't mean they don't like Oscar etc or Vice-versa.

[Barbara 15,149]

I'm saying that comparing the 2 or even allowing for the fact that Oscar is younger and has a potentially higher ceiling is irrelevant. You said:

"I said it once, and I'll repeat... comparing a 21yo Brazilian first season in Europe - in England nonetheless - with a guy well established there for two season is unfair.

we should compare their stats this season... (ignoring the age gap between them)."

To which i am saying that right now we can only go off what we know and not potential. Which is why i would play Mata over Oscar at the CAM positon. I never said you explicitly said you would pick one over the other. But that it is irrelevant right now. Oscar will get better over time and improve, as will his stats, though IMO, right now mata should be the one to play there.

We are debating this because it is a chelsea forum. Everyone is happy they both play for us. People are having a debate about who should start in the no.10 role.

Just because people say they want Mata in there doesn't mean they don't like Oscar etc or Vice-versa.

well I'm all for debate - although not interested in taking part in this particular one because it seems outdated now that Mata is in the team... they were competing for positions, now they aren't anymore as it seems Mourinho will continue to play them both...

It's the fact that your answer had no relation whatsoever with my post that makes me wonder wth you were talking about because I couldn't get how I said comparing last season's stats is unfair to warranty someone replying to me that they aren't saying Oscar should never play... it's a little bit

I didn't talk about potential either... I'm talking about present. We should compare their stats now, this season, present time, not 2, 3, 6, 10 months from now, but right now. I said both are closing gaps now, not that they will in x months or seasons from now.

The more I read my post and your answer less all of this make sense...

I guess it must be the avatar I had (me wearing a Oscar shirt) or the fave player name in my profile because I only made a comment about something I disagree that wasn't even the main point of torontochelsea's post... and then because of info in my profile I guess people are assuming I was picking sides.

It's all good though, mate. I was just confused and a bit frustrated with the kind of answer I received for something I thought it was clear in my post.

But as we're in this, I think we should play 4-3-3 with Oscar behind the wingers/strikers those being Schurrle, Mata and Torres or Eto'o. In my head he wouldn't be a #10 in that position, but a joker on the team's sleeve performing on different roles during the entire match.

[Hutcho 8,443]

well I'm all for debate - although not interested in taking part in this particular one because it seems outdated now that Mata is in the team... they were competing for positions, now they aren't anymore as it seems Mourinho will continue to play them both...

It's the fact that your answer had no relation whatsoever with my post that makes me wonder wth you were talking about because I couldn't get how I said comparing last season's stats is unfair to warranty someone replying to me that they aren't saying Oscar should never play... it's a little bit

I didn't talk about potential either... I'm talking about present. We should compare their stats now, this season, present time, not 2, 3, 6, 10 months from now, but right now. I said both are closing gaps now, not that they will in x months or seasons from now.

The more I read my post and your answer less all of this make sense...

I guess it must be the avatar I had (me wearing a Oscar shirt) or the fave player name in my profile because I only made a comment about something I disagree that wasn't even the main point of torontochelsea's post... and then because of info in my profile I guess people are assuming I was picking sides.

It's all good though, mate. I was just confused and a bit frustrated with the kind of answer I received for something I thought it was clear in my post.

But as we're in this, I think we should play 4-3-3 with Oscar behind the wingers/strikers those being Schurrle, Mata and Torres or Eto'o. In my head he wouldn't be a #10 in that position, but a joker on the team's sleeve performing on different roles during the entire match.

The debate was about who should play the no.10 role, not who should play. As i think everyone would agree that they are both great players and should play in the team.

I was simply refering to your point about not comparing stats (bolded part) from last season to make my own point, which was that atm we have very little to go on from this season. To which i said "that is why i would play Mata in the No.10". That was the bit i was responding to. Because, i think Mata's performance (more so than stats) over the last 2 years are what imo should give him the no.10 spot.

After that, It was my own point that i was making, fairly unrelated to your post, it just came after i responded to your stats point. Perhaps i should have responded to you. Then added my extra input underneath to avoid the confusion.

I'll summarise my point on this matter (Again, not a direct response to you, but to make it clear).

Mata has done well in the No.10 postion for 2 years. Been our best player. I haven't seen anything to suggest a rapid decline, or a rapid increase in oscar that would warrant him playing in that central role over Mata. Though it is very forseeable that very soon Oscar may be the no.10, if he surpasses Mata, yet as of RIGHT NOW i would play Mata over Oscar in the No.10 role.

That was all.

[Barbara 15,149]

The debate was about who should play the no.10 role, not who should play. As i think everyone would agree that they are both great players and should play in the team.

I was simply refering to your point about not comparing stats (bolded part) from last season to make my own point, which was that atm we have very little to go on from this season. To which i said "that is why i would play Mata in the No.10". That was the bit i was responding to. Because, i think Mata's performance (more so than stats) over the last 2 years are what imo should give him the no.10 spot.

After that, It was my own point that i was making, fairly unrelated to your post, it just came after i responded to your stats point. Perhaps i should have responded to you. Then added my extra input underneath to avoid the confusion.

I'll summarise my point on this matter (Again, not a direct response to you, but to make it clear).

Mata has done well in the No.10 postion for 2 years. Been our best player. I haven't seen anything to suggest a rapid decline, or a rapid increase in oscar that would warrant him playing in that central role over Mata. Though it is very forseeable that very soon Oscar may be the no.10, if he surpasses Mata, yet as of RIGHT NOW i would play Mata over Oscar in the No.10 role.

That was all.

yeah, I guess I led to the confusion without realizing it. I wasn't taking part of the debate itself and I didn't make that clear, I just disagreed about a minor detail, not exactly TorontoChelsea's reasoning - or yours.

I don't even like to make players comparison to be honest... Players are normally different from one another, and in this case Oscar and Mata are very different and can contribute in very different ways which makes the comparison even harder. Even as #10 they offer two complete different end products in my opinion. One fits tight matches more imo while the other fits better counter-attack, one controls better game pace while the other controls better games period.

[Fernando 6,585]

So the debate between who is better number 10.

Well on Tuesday we saw how these two can play together.

However do you realistically see them both playing together when we play say Bayern, Real Madrid and such?

I'm not sure, and I think Mourinho will go for Oscar as his main man for such a game.

[-Kaplan- 410]

he just said in one the interviews (better check the Mourinho thread) his plan is to play the two of them together (I assume as AM's, no pivot nonsense), but that he feels Mata isn't ready to start the matches. So I think his plan is to keep Mazacar, but he won't play them until Mata is fit - which should apply to Hazard too btw as Eden has been below par - as much or even more so than Mata and that is while playing at all possible minutes except today's last five. I support Mata being benched and proving his value, but I can't understand why the same doesn't apply to Hazard - quite the opposite the more he sucks, the more he plays it seems.

The best player needs to be benched? He already adapted to Mourinho's style, that's why he started the UCL match.

I mean, come on.

[Jase 43,479]

The best player needs to be benched? He already adapted to Mourinho's style, that's why he started the UCL match.

I mean, come on.

Think you should see the date of the post. Barbara said that before Mata eventually played himself into the starting XI after 3 good performances..

[The_Flash 1,144]

I like both of them and don't like to compare would like to see both play.

[CrayzayBarnet 126]

Mata without a doubt..

[-Kaplan- 410]

Think you should see the date of the post. Barbara said that before Mata eventually played himself into the starting XI after 3 good performances..

Does that change my response?

[communicate 2,703]

Now I am no longer that concerned of who should play as no 10. Oscar and mata played extremely well in ucl. The key for me is can mazacar all play well at the same time or one of the front three have to be winger like Schurrle.

[Tomo 21,751]

Does that change my response?

Players should have to earn their place in the team and then be kept on their toe's at all times.

Do you think we should play Mata all game every game until he retires, just because he was our best player for 2 years?

[Barbara 15,149]

The best player needs to be benched? He already adapted to Mourinho's style, that's why he started the UCL match.

I mean, come on.

I meant when Mata was unfit... that's the problem. If a player is showing he's unfit, he should be recovered first.

Hazard is completely out of shape. Why should we keep him in the team while André is playing like that? That's the only thing I meant... not that Mata should be benched now, but when the season started and he didn't show up in the matches he played...

[Jase 43,479]

Does that change my response?

Situation different then and now. Context changed and what you said then is based on current situation, not back 1-2 weeks ago when Barbara said things based circumstances then.