No.10 Role

[meetdoscar 335]

Mata is an offensive player who creates chances & other players may convert. That´s what the team needs.

Stay tuned for tomorrow´s game. You will see what this little man is all about. The best player on Chelsea´s team two years running.

I will surely see, but he isn't quite as effective offensively in champions league i am afraid compared to oscar but people don't see that. To stand a chance in europe without drogba we need a well built team and mata isn't among top 20 players in europe so we will fail massively if we build around him like we do in EPL and i bet willian will be more important for us than mata in europe. Oscar on the other hand is a team player and brings much to the table in europe. If he can translate his form in europe to EPl we won't have this discussion of no. 10 anymore and he is definitely showing signs of that so far.

[bushman 2,043]

I will surely see, but he isn't quite as effective offensively in champions league i am afraid compared to oscar but people don't see that. To stand a chance in europe without drogba we need a well built team and mata isn't among top 20 players in europe so we will fail massively if we build around him like we do in EPL and i bet willian will be more important for us than mata in europe. Oscar on the other hand is a team player and brings much to the table in europe. If he can translate his form in europe to EPl we won't have this discussion of no. 10 anymore and he is definitely showing signs of that so far.

The way I see it. You are not very effective in convincing me in your reasoning. Therefore, I thank you for your enjoyable chat & let´s leave it at that.

[didierforever 7,349]

I did think of that at first but with this formation and Oscars work rate it could possibly work. Oscar would be required to play slightly deeper.

thats the point. it would end up being a 4-2-3-1 with oscar playing box2box pivot position. something which is well taboo here..

[OneMoSalah 8,776]

I seen 'Mata has looked average in the CL for a while now' somewhere and now I've lost all faith in this thread. Best player vs Nordsjaelland in both games last season, probably against Shakhtar in one of those two games as well. In that 3-0 loss vs Juventus he and Oscar were our brightest players too. Biggest influence in most of our games in Europe since he arrived bar Drogba's performances vs Bayern, vs Napoli and both legs vs Barcelona. If people don't start appreciating Mata now for what he truly is they never will.

[Barbara 15,149]

is there much a purpose for this thread to still be open? It's derailing and producing (imo) unnecessary arguments. The article that incited the thread is old news, as well as Mata status in the bench.

Both players are clearly in the starting XI in Mou's head, they'll trade positions between the wing and the #10 during matches. Any discussion about Mata and Oscar roles in the team can be taken in their respective threads without putting one against the other as seen here

I can see things escalating unnecessarily from a discussion that right now doesn't seem relevant as one isn't taking the position away from the other.

Just a perception though...

[bushman 2,043]

I seen 'Mata has looked average in the CL for a while now' somewhere and now I've lost all faith in this thread. Best player vs Nordsjaelland in both games last season, probably against Shakhtar in one of those two games as well. In that 3-0 loss vs Juventus he and Oscar were our brightest players too. Biggest influence in most of our games in Europe since he arrived bar Drogba's performances vs Bayern, vs Napoli and both legs vs Barcelona. If people don't start appreciating Mata now for what he truly is they never will.

Well said. I find this debate a bit puzzling too.

Either people are for Mata or they are not. To post about him & oscar as to what each player contributed to Chelsea is useless.

Both players are very exceptional & I am happy to see both on Chelsea´s squad. There must be a way to play them. Either alternatively or...? All these line-ups posted here, are just wishful thinking on the respective poster.

[Jase 43,479]

Insecure... He isn't my girlfriend you know.

And yet you go around and saying if Mata doesn't do this, doesn't do that, he will basically be back to square 1 situation with Mourinho...

If my points are valid it is only because they are true.

Never said your points are wrong but going by what you just said there, it's not necessarily objectively right either.

My eye is even more open now to what mourinho has seen and it seems quite laughable really. For example if mata plays no. 10 in midfield and oscar seats on the bench then who will win balls if runners and ball winners like oscar don't play. That will leave ramires as the only ball winner from midfield to attack. Mata is slight, Mikel is slow and has to remain deep to be effective, lampard is old, same with essien, willian is not yet up to speed, schurrle is mostly only aggressive and that's it we cannot win a league that way our defense will be battered by the smallest of teams except we play with a low block constantly like benitez did.

What I find more laughable is for someone playing in the No.10 role where his main role should be on attacking and creating, Mourinho seem to be putting so much emphasis on Oscar to do the defensive work, all because of the supposedly failure of the players behind him, and then in turn making us less potent in attack due to the lack of creativity coming from the middle. This situation is probably made worse by the fact that even when Oscar gets forward, he doesn't really create much and provide that cutting edge factor in the final third.

And if Mata is slight, then what is Oscar? The only issue now with Mata is his defensive workrate but in the last two games, he has shown the willingness and desire to track back. If he can get that to a consistent level and to the required standards of Mourinho, then I don't see how Mata would not be able to match Oscar's workrate, or at least near it, and also, be able to give more going forward.

Why debate when mourinho has chosen oscar as his preferred no. 10. If mourinho had chosen mata i know i wouldn't debate just like benitez chose mata as no. 10 and there was no debate. Similarly RDM chose oscar as his no. 10 and back then we played our best football there was also no debate and mata was still the most important player. I think the debate rather arises from the point of view that mourinho trusts oscar as one of his favourite players and this brings insecurity to mata who has been the favourite and most important for two seasons now. But change is only constant isn't it before juan mata there was once florent malouda...lol...but we actually won the league with malouda as our best player.

Can't agree with that at all. Just because Mourinho has said so, doesn't mean he's right and that we shouldn't be allowed to argue/debate/discuss about his decision(s). It's just like saying when a government prefers a certain policy and choose to implement it, the citizens of the country should just passively accept the decision and don't voice out their thoughts and disagreement..

[Hutcho 8,443]

Mata is clearly the best.

Oscar should play in the Pivot imo.

EDIT: Also tbh, i couldn't care less at mata's so called "defensive inability". He is playing behind the striker. We have 6 other players who have a strong focus on protecting whats coming towards us. Mata is better in an attacking sense at no.10 right now. Oscar is great, and may be better there shortly. But right now there is no question.

[Drogzola 283]

thats the point. it would end up being a 4-2-3-1 with oscar playing box2box pivot position. something which is well taboo here..

I guess you right . Well there we go that's our answer haha

[hjperdeath 2,226]

The performance against Tottenham was down to a lot of factors, Torres being fueled up, Ramires shifted back to midfielder and obviously Mata. I'm sure though that Jose isn't convinced on who to start with in the #10 role on long term. The game against Steaua will be make or break for Juan. Need's to step up and give his 110%.

[Jase 43,479]

The performance against Tottenham was down to a lot of factors, Torres being fueled up, Ramires shifted back to midfielder and obviously Mata. I'm sure though that Jose isn't convinced on who to start with in the #10 role on long term. The game against Steaua will be make or break for Juan. Need's to step up and give his 110%.

Care to expand further?

[hjperdeath 2,226]

Care to expand further?

imo, Oscar's been decent. Scored goals, worked hard, pre-season with Brazil, etc. He's got into Jose's good books, which would make it harder for someone to easily overthrow him. After his performance against Swindon and Tottenham, Juan's sent a strong message about how he can offer creativity in abundance and also the x factor Oscar won't able to. For all the defensive work-rate the Brazilian can provide, Mata gives something to the team that he won't be able to.

Even though Steaua Bucharest are minnows in the group, they're still a tough European side to beat. If Juan can perform well, i.e. create chances, maybe score and work along with his team-mates as a unit, Jose will have a dilemma. He'll have to choose either defensive stability in attack or an all out option of having someone who can help others score left, right and center. If Juan doesn't perform well, I see him going back to the bench and Oscar retain that coveted spot. Small mistakes have huge costs in a team that has so much depth.

[Rmpr 8,977]

is there much a purpose for this thread to still be open? It's derailing and producing (imo) unnecessary arguments. The article that incited the thread is old news, as well as Mata status in the bench.

Both players are clearly in the starting XI in Mou's head, they'll trade positions between the wing and the #10 during matches. Any discussion about Mata and Oscar roles in the team can be taken in their respective threads without putting one against the other as seen here

I can see things escalating unnecessarily from a discussion that right now doesn't seem relevant as one isn't taking the position away from the other.

Just a perception though...

Sorry to say this, but all I see you doing lately is moaning about other people moaning.You keep criticizing, but you aren't exactly helping also!

Not that I disagree with your points, but still...

[Barbara 15,149]

Sorry to say this, but all I see you doing lately is moaning about other people moaning.You keep criticizing, but you aren't exactly helping also!

Not that I disagree with your points, but still...

actually I didn't mean the moaning... but things escalating into arguments as have been common here. When two, three people start exchanging too many posts between them, sometimes it escalates into a fight. That's what I meant. I don't even think there was moaning involved this time

[bushman 2,043]

actually I didn't mean the moaning... but things escalating into arguments as have been common here. When two, three people start exchanging too many posts between them, sometimes it escalates into a fight. That's what I meant. I don't even think there was moaning involved this time

I see, now you stuck the samba dancer in your avatar.

Look at it from practical point of view. Mata creates, Torres scores & Oscar can samba ?

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Mata is clearly the best.

Oscar should play in the Pivot imo.

EDIT: Also tbh, i couldn't care less at mata's so called "defensive inability". He is playing behind the striker. We have 6 other players who have a strong focus on protecting whats coming towards us. Mata is better in an attacking sense at no.10 right now. Oscar is great, and may be better there shortly. But right now there is no question.

Defensive positioning does matter, even at the #10. One of the main reasons our midfield was swamped last season was our attacking midfielders not tracking back. In the centre, Oscar's defensive ability allows Lampard and Ramires to go forward and they are probably our best two finishers overall. Mata there means that if they venture forward at all, we are extremely vulnerable. That said, Mata would be my choice too. We need the creativity more than we need the defensive work-rate.

[SeB 1,281]

Defensive positioning does matter, even at the #10. One of the main reasons our midfield was swamped last season was our attacking midfielders not tracking back. In the centre, Oscar's defensive ability allows Lampard and Ramires to go forward and they are probably our best two finishers overall. Mata there means that if they venture forward at all, we are extremely vulnerable. That said, Mata would be my choice too. We need the creativity more than we need the defensive work-rate.

Depends on the context to be fair. We'll face teams that will simply give the ball away and park the bus, against which we'll need penetration... So then Mata is more suited to a central position.

In case the opponent manages to pass the ball several times on the row, can press, can fall back to hit us on the counter, has deep players able to be a launching pad (Carrick, Westwood...) & launch attacks... so then Oscar is more suited

[Tomo 21,733]

One thing i have learned this season beyond any doubt, is that there is far too much putting player before club going on.