Willian

[iseah100 5,612]

These last few pages have had some ridiculously long posts.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Ramires, who is not a winger, on the right wing against Man City; another example of disrupting the 'first choice' eleven to better suit whatever game-plan we were trying to implement. I just feel that if we didn't find ourselves needing to make such fundamental changes to the starting line-up when facing high-quality opposition, the team would play with a greater coherence.

Look at Atletico Madrid, for example; the first-choice line-up against most opposition (Moya, Juanfran, Miranda, Godin, Siqueira/Ansaldi (the weak links), Tiago, Gabi, Koke, Arda Turan, Griezmann, Mandzukic) is also the the line-up they use most frequently against the 'big teams' they face. It's currently the same with Barcelona now that Enrique has abandoned his previous habit of changing the starting line-up pretty much every game, with Bravo, Alves, Pique, Mascherano, Alba, Busquets, Rakitic, Iniesta, Neymar, Messi, Suarez starting all the most important games, whether they are against 'big teams' or not. I don't think that it's entirely a coincidence that these two teams just 'happen' to have been obtaining some of the most impressive results in European football since the turn of the year. Other teams that have been employing their most frequently-used line-ups in the big games (player fitness permitting) are Wolfsburg, PSG, Real Madrid, Lyon etc. The domestic performances of Wolfsburg and Lyon have been particularly notable this season.

Ultimately, the strategic and tactical compromises made by most of these teams to deal with specific opposition threats are often devised to work within the already-established framework of a starting 11 that is comfortable playing together. Most of their managers DO NOT tend to make changes that completely rupture the teams' usual systems of play, and so when they are in possession and attacking their moves are slick, quick, and generally effective (even when the attacking approach has been altered somewhat). In contrast with this, Mourinho DOES make such changes when faced with high-quality opposition (e.g. Ramires on the wing, moving our deep-lying playmaker away from his zone of influence etc.) and the team suffers for it. True, we haven't lost a 'big game' so far this season, but we are seeing far too many of them end in draws during which we've only managed a few shots during the entire game and many of our best chances have come from set-pieces. If we continue to put in these types of performances in such games, then we will eventually come across a 'big team' that is in genuinely good form on the day and we WILL lose (possibly quite heavily).

And no, this post is not dealing directly with the topic of Willian at Downing Street (it's related to that, but also close to being genuinely off-topic), so I haven't gone back on what I wrote at the end of my last post (yet) .

Very good point that the lineup change spoils our play.

It must be mainly because fabregas is removed from the pivot for defensive reasons that causes it.

But how do we get a strong player who has almost the same vision as fabregas to control the game but still defend athletically like Matic or at least mikel???

When fabregas doesn't play, (against astonvilla) our teamplay suffers, when he isn't in the pivot we can't keep possession. We need to find a way to keep him deep and provide him with protection like Pirlo has.

Vidal - Pirlo - Pogba

Ramires - Fabregas - Matic

If Mourinho can't play a 4-3-3, then we need to find a replacement that can control the tempo and still defend like Matic in the pivot for big games.

We just need to find a way to get more than 6 shots against big teams. We've passed the level of getting only 2shots in a match and hoping one is a goal.

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

But if Willian does track back in the 10 which he does, the defensive frailties of Fabregas are covered. If he's not in the pivot then offensively we completely collapse, so considering that it's worth the risk playing him there at all times IMO. We should put another DM along side him which would alleviate this problem.

[OhForAGreavsie 5,892]

I'm sure we tried something very similar away to City with Cesc next to Matic, Ramires on the right wing and Willian playing through the middle. It didn't turn out very well. In fact Oscar, Cesc and Willian have all played as the number 10 in one big game or another this season with the team performance differing very little, which is why I believe the issues we see in such games (i.e. regularly appearing so clueless in attack) extend further than the personnel. That said it seems like we tried to go for both Tiago and Sneijder in the summer window. Those two playing at CM and CAM respectively would IMO have helped alleviate a lot of the big-game problems we've seen. It's a pity that neither deal came through.

Agree with your overall view but, just to dot the i_s and cross the t_s, I'd say it actually is a personnel issue in the sense that Jose does not have the personnel he needs to solve the problem. I think this is a circle that can't squared which is why I believe our boss deserves a lot of praise for finding solutions that win points, even if not plaudits.

[The Chels 2,502]

Ramires, who is not a winger, on the right wing against Man City; another example of disrupting the 'first choice' eleven to better suit whatever game-plan we were trying to implement. I just feel that if we didn't find ourselves needing to make such fundamental changes to the starting line-up when facing high-quality opposition, the team would play with a greater coherence.

Look at Atletico Madrid, for example; the first-choice line-up against most opposition (Moya, Juanfran, Miranda, Godin, Siqueira/Ansaldi (the weak links), Tiago, Gabi, Koke, Arda Turan, Griezmann, Mandzukic) is also the the line-up they use most frequently against the 'big teams' they face. It's currently the same with Barcelona now that Enrique has abandoned his previous habit of changing the starting line-up pretty much every game, with Bravo, Alves, Pique, Mascherano, Alba, Busquets, Rakitic, Iniesta, Neymar, Messi, Suarez starting all the most important games, whether they are against 'big teams' or not. I don't think that it's entirely a coincidence that these two teams just 'happen' to have been obtaining some of the most impressive results in European football since the turn of the year. Other teams that have been employing their most frequently-used line-ups in the big games (player fitness permitting) are Wolfsburg, PSG, Real Madrid, Lyon etc. The domestic performances of Wolfsburg and Lyon have been particularly notable this season.

Ultimately, the strategic and tactical compromises made by most of these teams to deal with specific opposition threats are often devised to work within the already-established framework of a starting 11 that is comfortable playing together. Most of their managers DO NOT tend to make changes that completely rupture the teams' usual systems of play, and so when they are in possession and attacking their moves are slick, quick, and generally effective (even when the attacking approach has been altered somewhat). In contrast with this, Mourinho DOES make such changes when faced with high-quality opposition (e.g. Ramires on the wing, moving our deep-lying playmaker away from his zone of influence etc.) and the team suffers for it. True, we haven't lost a 'big game' so far this season, but we are seeing far too many of them end in draws during which we've only managed a few shots during the entire game and many of our best chances have come from set-pieces. If we continue to put in these types of performances in such games, then we will eventually come across a 'big team' that is in genuinely good form on the day and we WILL lose (possibly quite heavily).

And no, this post is not dealing directly with the topic of Willian at Downing Street (it's related to that, but also close to being genuinely off-topic), so I haven't gone back on what I wrote at the end of my last post (yet) .

The thing is those teams you mention (Atleti/Barca) rarely change their style of play from the small games to the big games as dramatically as we do and so they don't need to change their usual starting 11. Sure Atletico have less possession against the bigger sides but they play a very similar style and you'll often see them defending with all 10 outfield players behind the ball against smaller sides too, with their last game against Celta Vigo being a prime example of this. In contrast we tend to go from having the majority of possession in the opposition's final third to simply defending ours. That said, I think those teams are able to cope with greater changes in approach while maintaining the same line-up better than we are because of the differences in personnel.

We have used our 'best team' (and formation) in several big games this season - the matches away to United, Liverpool and Tottenham in the league as well as the home match against Liverpool in the COC come to mind. There are a couple of exceptions with Drogba in for Costa v United due to injury, for example, but the core of the team was by and large the same. No team is able to use the exact same 11 every game so I don't think a couple of changes should make that much difference to our attacking play, certainly not as much as it has done. For example Koke got injured very early on in Atleti's 4-0 win over Real but it made no difference. Nevertheless in those games we created more chances than we have in other big games this season but we were defensively all over the shop - and Cesc playing at CM is partly (but definitely not entirely) the reason for that. We need him playing next to Matic against the smaller sides as he helps dictate the play but when we want to defend and play on the counter then he is not such a good option there, which necessitates changes all over the midfield. He has certainly improved his tactical discipline but he is still not great at it, he can be rather easily taken out of the game and it is far too easy to run at and dribble past him, which spells chaos for our defenders who need as much protection as possible.

Like you say we don't (and IMO can't) have one consistent line-up for both small games and big games but I think that's probably how Jose would have envisioned it going. I don't really expect that to change.

It must be mainly because fabregas is removed from the pivot for defensive reasons that causes it. But how do we get a strong player who has almost the same vision as fabregas to control the game but still defend athletically like Matic or at least mikel???

This, basically. And well we tried to buy that player in the summer but it didn't materialise.

[Styles 9,790]

Willian was amazing in the second half. He was involved in a lot of our best moves.

Some of his dribbling and passing in the build-up of moves was superb.

Loved the Brazil and Chelsea flag combo too

[The Skipper 20,593]

Willian was amazing in the second half. He was involved in a lot of our best moves.

Some of his dribbling and passing in the build-up of moves was superb.

Loved the Brazil and Chelsea flag combo too

Glad I wasn't the only one that commended his second half performance.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Willian was amazing in the second half. He was involved in a lot of our best moves.

Some of his dribbling and passing in the build-up of moves was superb.

Loved the Brazil and Chelsea flag combo too

All of a sudden he was spreading perfect passes to hazard during our counters. It was good to see

[Barbara 15,149]

Willian was amazing in the second half. He was involved in a lot of our best moves.

Some of his dribbling and passing in the build-up of moves was superb.

Loved the Brazil and Chelsea flag combo too

Glad I wasn't the only one that commended his second half performance.

which was a nice change after literally destroying every attack we had in the first half except that one long ball to Hazard. He was painful to watch in the first. And I think he improved some in the second, but nothing eye-catching imo.

But as it's suitable, his first half performance is completely forgotten and disregarded and his second half performance overrated. nothing new.

If we're going to have an upgrade from what we currently have to #10 position, I can't see Willian being the answer. He had a straw of 3-4 good games in the attack (regardless of the position), the rest were either average (like against Spurs, as we should consider his whole presentation as he didn't set the world alight in the second) or just poor.

The only reason he still starts our every match is because he's the best WB we have in the team and he covers Ivanovic in the flank so Iva can move inside the box when opposition crosses or progresses in the attack through our right side. Denying that is pretty partial imo.

[WNDS 502]

which was a nice change after literally destroying every attack we had in the first half except that one long ball to Hazard. He was painful to watch in the first. And I think he improved some in the second, but nothing eye-catching imo.

But as it's suitable, his first half performance is completely forgotten and disregarded and his second half performance overrated. nothing new.

If we're going to have an upgrade from what we currently have to #10 position, I can't see Willian being the answer. He had a straw of 3-4 good games in the attack (regardless of the position), the rest were either average (like against Spurs, as we should consider his whole presentation as he didn't set the world alight in the second) or just poor.

The only reason he still starts our every match is because he's the best WB we have in the team and he covers Ivanovic in the flank so Iva can move inside the box when opposition crosses or progresses in the attack through our right side. Denying that is pretty partial imo.

People are giving more weighting to his display in the second-half over that of the first-half because we won the game and he helped us to do so. He was involved in the build-up to both of our goals, created a number of openings for Hazard (two of which involved excellent switches of play), and defended well. Despite a poor showing in the opening 20-30 minutes, he managed to sort himself out for the rest of the game and his overall contribution to both the result and the performance was undoubtedly positive; a solid 7/10 in my opinion (the rating that I would give to the team as a whole). If we had lost, then there would be more focus upon the mistakes he made, as would be the case with almost every one of our players in this game.

[LAB 1,030]

Willian played well. 1st half offered the usual defensive stuff and 2nd half he completed his performance by contributing offensively. He has clearly stepped up lately and it shows. His passing is directed with more intend and he thinks and reacts more quickly than before. I like his work currently (always liked it tbh, but now more than ever) and imo if he stays consistent with what he is doing now it's going to be a really good scenario to go and grab someone like Reus to complete our trio for our strongest line up instead of sticking with Oscar as primary no10.

Hazard - Willian - Reus would look very good for example.

[Vybz Kartel 1,613]

I hope we can upgrade on him and let him go because its clear his not good enough to warranty a continued starting place. Guys like Damian Duff were less talented but had the heart and desire which seems like guys like Willian dont have. Yes a couple of good games here and there is not good enough on the overall considering his price tag and what we can get for considerably less.

[Spike 12,049]

Not a fan. He runs fast and works hard (heh, seems to be recurring theme in this squad) but then does a nice and tidy backpass to the fullback. That effectively kills momentum.

[nono 791]

Not a fan. He runs fast and works hard (heh, seems to be recurring theme in this squad) but then does a nice and tidy backpass to the fullback. That effectively kills momentum.

Mourinho likes this sort of player in midfield, who is athletic even though he has little footballing ability. That's how players like Kalou, Ramires, Mikel and Willian get to stick around so long.

[Jase 43,479]

Mourinho likes this sort of player in midfield, who is athletic even though he has little footballing ability. That's how players like Kalou, Ramires, Mikel and Willian get to stick around so long.

To be fair, Kalou had a knack of scoring goals for us and sometimes important ones too. Same goes for Ramires, at least 2-3 years ago. Still more than what Willian has provided in terms of finding the back of the net.

[Henrique 9,133]

I'm done with Willian. Its really sad, because in his first game he scored that superb goal.

He is a player that is afraid to take responsibilities, he is afraid of scoring goals, he is afraid of trying to be the protagonist. He is everything Luiz was not. Luiz was a player that was never afraid of making mistakes. Something that Mourinho wound tolerate coming from a CB. Willian to other is a player that never take risks. A typical Willian display: he receives the ball, then an opponent start to mark him, he retains the ball, he pretends do dribble, retains the ball, pretends to dribble again...then end up making a short pass to the closest player.

His attitude when he is not will the ball is also a shame. He just hides behind defenders. The fact that Mourinho loves an attacking player that is afraid to attack speaks loud about the teams current form.

[Johnny Kills 164]

I'm done with Willian. Its really sad, because in his first game he scored that superb goal.

He is a player that is afraid to take responsibilities, he is afraid of scoring goals, he is afraid of trying to be the protagonist. He is everything Luiz was not. Luiz was a player that was never afraid of making mistakes. Something that Mourinho wound tolerate coming from a CB. Willian to other is a player that never take risks. A typical Willian display: he receives the ball, then an opponent start to mark him, he retains the ball, he pretends do dribble, retains the ball, pretends to dribble again...then end up making a short pass to the closest player.

His attitude when he is not will the ball is also a shame. He just hides behind defenders. The fact that Mourinho loves an attacking player that is afraid to attack speaks loud about the teams current form.

I came here to post the same exact thing. If anyone has the game downloaded/recorded and can watch it again. Please watch TWO MINUTES INTO EXTRA TIME. Willian picks the ball up in PSG's half, he has Fabregas (who's about 30 yards away from goal) about 10 yards in front of him and Fab is surrounded by no one. All Willian has to do is play it into him and Fabregas is turning and attacking the defense with Costa and possibly Hazard as runners. WTF DOES WILLIAN DO?! He holds onto it, hesitates, waits for Ivanovic's run and dinks it over to the right flank and totally ignores the chance to take advantage of the space behind their midfielders - the ideal situation for Fabregas (who proved in the West Ham game that he could suck for the whole game and the second he gets space he can change the game). If he continues to get games over Cuadrado than this is going to be just as baffling as the KDB and Mata situations for me.

[Sheva. 5,373]

I'm done with Willian. Its really sad, because in his first game he scored that superb goal.

He is a player that is afraid to take responsibilities, he is afraid of scoring goals, he is afraid of trying to be the protagonist. He is everything Luiz was not. Luiz was a player that was never afraid of making mistakes. Something that Mourinho wound tolerate coming from a CB. Willian to other is a player that never take risks. A typical Willian display: he receives the ball, then an opponent start to mark him, he retains the ball, he pretends do dribble, retains the ball, pretends to dribble again...then end up making a short pass to the closest player.

His attitude when he is not will the ball is also a shame. He just hides behind defenders. The fact that Mourinho loves an attacking player that is afraid to attack speaks loud about the teams current form.

No one can describe him better than this. I'm just bored of him now.