Willian

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

He was a fantastic player. For a midtable side though. I can imagine Willian having a similar impact at that level.

I dream of Isco, Koke, Gotze, Reus, looking at possible/realistic options. Or a new centre midfielder and push Fabregas up the pitch, though that's not exactly my favourite option. One of Oscar and Willian is acceptable, two is too much sadly. When the going gets tough, they can't be relied on.

Reus on the wing with Khedira in the pivot and Cesc in #10 is very realistic indeed. Not the most favoured option but it's both the most realistic and the most cost effective.

Also, isn't there some Barcelona contract rebel we were linked with?

[CurlyHairLikeLuiz 1,625]

I can't believe we actually scout players based on how they perform against us (Salah another recent example). Surely the analysts will have realised that was a one-off and Wilian's end product is consistently appalling?

Salah hasn't been given time to show his strengths. 1 game is not enough for match fitness.

[DYC. 7,542]

Reus on the wing with Khedira in the pivot and Cesc in #10 is very realistic indeed. Not the most favoured option but it's both the most realistic and the most cost effective.

Also, isn't there some Barcelona contract rebel we were linked with?

Not a fan of Khedira personally. And I highly doubt both Willian and Oscar will be dropped.

No idea who you're talking about.

[The Chels 2,502]

Also, isn't there some Barcelona contract rebel we were linked with?

Busquets? Not happening.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I can't believe we actually scout players based on how they perform against us (Salah another recent example).

Scott Parker springs to mind in his Charlton days

[Tomo 21,751]

Salah hasn't even gotten a chance. I'm positive if Salah got a chance he would finish the season with 10 goals and 10 assists in all comps. Schurrle is in bad form, so no argument there. Willian has poor decision making, vision, and finishing. He isn't good enough to start for Chelsea.

Salah and Schurrle would score and assist more most probably, but that doesn't automatically mean we will be a better team. Mandzukic doesn't score as much as Gomez, but Bayern making that change turned them from a trophy less team to treble winners.

People use to say the same with United and question why Fergie played "average player's", other's questioned Peps sanity when he dropped Henry for Pedro.

More often than not it's the supposedly "average" player's that actually complete a great team.

[Styles 9,790]

He was a fantastic player. For a midtable side though. I can imagine Willian having a similar impact at that level.

I dream of Isco, Koke, Gotze, Reus, looking at possible/realistic options. Or a new centre midfielder and push Fabregas up the pitch, though that's not exactly my favourite option. One of Oscar and Willian is acceptable, two is too much sadly. When the going gets tough, they can't be relied on.

So they both shouldn't be acceptable in all honestly. We shouldn't have to carry role-players in the attack, there should be no exceptions at the highest level.

[Barbara 15,149]

So they both shouldn't be acceptable in all honestly. We shouldn't have to carry role-players in the attack, there should be no exceptions at the highest level.

Actually I believe one of them is necessary for the always-mentioned balance. The two of them together is redundancy and is detracting our attack with their low return.

Mourinho has to pick one of them for certain matches, the other for others and stop with this BS of playing the two of them. It's unacceptable that out of our 3 AMs only one really offers something as an attacking midfield. Oscar + Willian may balance our pressing and our pivot, but they unbalance our attack. One of them is more than enough to offer support to the pivot. All players under Mourinho - including Hazard, the one that had least reason to do it - track back, press, offer something for the collective play. While some are much better at work rate than others, it doesn't mean the others are completely incapable of offering some support.

[DYC. 7,542]

So they both shouldn't be acceptable in all honestly. We shouldn't have to carry role-players in the attack, there should be no exceptions at the highest level.

They can't be relied on to constantly deliver in tough times but it's not like they are completely unable to produce from time to time.

Bayern and Real are probably the only sides in football that can field a starting XI with class players in every position. It's so rare, even if you go back in time and look at old teams (including our own club).

Going through a tough time right now but it's not like the season is ruined, far from it.

[The Skipper 20,609]

No Willian, no balance in the team in the way Jose wants to play that frees our creative players, even Ivanovic down the right side, evident when he doesn't play - whole team was not at the races yesterday.

Couldn't care if he went all season with 0 goals 0 assists as long as I see him charging down people in the 88th minute like I have done almost every time I've seen him when he hasn't been subbed.

Need those worker bees.

How about a worker bee that's productive in the final third as well?

[lionsden 4,689]

So they both shouldn't be acceptable in all honestly. We shouldn't have to carry role-players in the attack, there should be no exceptions at the highest level.

Absolutely right.

Let's assess the first choice attacking options of Europe's elite. Bayern-Robben, Ribery,Muller and Lewadowski - all top class, top performing players even their squad players like Shaqiri and Gotze in particular are superior to some of our first choice attacking players. Real madrid: Ronaldo,Bale,Isco,Rodriguez and benzema: the same as Bayern, Barcelona: Messi, Neymar,Suarez and Iniesta (an out of form iniesta is still significantly better than Oscar and Willian).

For example,Last year before we bought Fabregas and Matic, some posters were trying to argue that there was nothing wrong with Ramires and he was good enough to be our first choice CM. It's a simple concept, to be the best, you have to strive towards perfection in terms of manager and personnel recruitment. once you start settling and compromising, you either slip into abject mediocrity, remain stagnant or fall short of achieving your ultimate objective/aim.

You will never hear Europe elite clubs make excuses and compromise for average and/or perenial underperforming players and that's why they are Europe's elite.

[Styles 9,790]

Actually I believe one of them is necessary for the always-mentioned balance. The two of them together is redundancy and is detracting our attack with their low return.

Mourinho has to pick one of them for certain matches, the other for others and stop with this BS of playing the two of them. It's unacceptable that out of our 3 AMs only one really offers something as an attacking midfield. Oscar + Willian may balance our pressing and our pivot, but they unbalance our attack. One of them is more than enough to offer support to the pivot. All players under Mourinho - including Hazard, the one that had least reason to do it - track back, press, offer something for the collective play. While some are much better at work rate than others, it doesn't mean the others are completely incapable of offering some support.

I'm starting to find the whole balance thing such a cop-out.* I used to argue for the inclusion of certain players for that very reason but, ultimately, that is just not enough at the highest level. I've given up on Oscar completely and have even conceded defeat with Willian (even though I think there's some talent there) because his numbers are ridiculously bad.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: for a club with our resources and aspirations we can and should do better than the likes of Oscar, Willian, Schurrle and Salah.

They can't be relied on to constantly deliver in tough times but it's not like they are completely unable to produce from time to time.

Bayern and Real are probably the only sides in football that can field a starting XI with class players in every position. It's so rare, even if you go back in time and look at old teams (including our own club).

Going through a tough time right now but it's not like the season is ruined, far from it.

But then carrying players that can only produce when the going is easy but who'll fall away when it really matters is setting us up for failure. So when Hazard/Costa get extra attention (which is happening more frequently) and these guys have to take more responsibility the reality is they almost certainly won't step up. So why persist with them?

How about a worker bee that's productive in the final third as well?

People talk as if those two qualities are mutually exclusive but they're not.

Absolutely right.

Let's assess the first choice attacking options of Europe's elite. Bayern-Robben, Ribery,Muller and Lewadowski - all top class, top performing players even their squad players like Shaqiri and Gotze in particular are superior to some of our first choice attacking players. Real madrid: Ronaldo,Bale,Isco,Rodriguez and benzema: the same as Bayern, Barcelona: Messi, Neymar,Suarez and Iniesta (an out of form iniesta is still significantly better than Oscar and Willian).

For example,Last year before we bought Fabregas and Matic, some posters were trying to argue that there was nothing wrong with Ramires and he was good enough to be our first choice CM. It's a simple concept, to be the best, you have to strive towards perfection in terms of manager and personnel recruitment. once you start settling and compromising, you either slip into abject mediocrity, remain stagnant or fall short of achieving your ultimate objective/aim.

You will never hear Europe elite clubs make excuses and compromise for average and/or perenial underperforming players and that's why they are Europe's elite.

That's the reality; other top clubs strive for the best and work around things like balance. We shouldn't handicap ourselves.

[DYC. 7,542]

But then carrying players that can only produce when the going is easy but who'll fall away when it really matters is setting us up for failure. So when Hazard/Costa get extra attention (which is happening more frequently) and these guys have to take more responsibility the reality is they almost certainly won't step up. So why persist with them?

I hear what you're saying but it's not like top players are out there, waiting to be picked up. Top players are scarce, that's what makes them quality. Real and Barca have an appeal the rest of the top sides can't compete with. They're capable of buying just about anyone (though I don't think Barca are a force anymore and I don't see the Neymar-Messi-Suarez trio working out).

Bayern got to the position where they are by buying talented players and developing youngsters at the club. Neuer and Ribery came in as a top talents, but were definitely not top players or household names in football. Gotze is a top talent, one of the very most talented young players for me, but he's not a top player yet imo. Too inconsistent.

Robben was a Real reject. Though already a fantastic player, he was too inconsistent to be labled a top player. Top sides in Europe weren't exactly jumping to sign him back in '09. Javi Martinez was bought for a huge amount of money but it was a gamble. Hardly achieved anything before he joined Bayern. It worked out for them though, but Guardiola doesn't seem to be a fan (of course he's been unlucky with injuries)

Lahm, Alaba, Badstuber, Boateng, Schweini, Muller were developed at the club. Lewandowski and Xabi were high profile signings (comparable to Cesc and Costa). Benatia was high profile-ish after his great season at Roma.

It's not easy. Chels will have to do something similar to assemble a ridiculously talented squad. I doubt they have the pulling power and proper resources (FFP restrictions) to go out and buy those among the best in the game. Utd spent €200 mil (!) on the likes of Rojo, Shaw, Herrera, Blind... Di Maria being the top player. Look at the crap Liverpool ended up with.

[Styles 9,790]

I hear what you're saying but it's not like top players are out there, waiting to be picked up. Top players are scarce, that's what makes them quality. Real and Barca have an appeal the rest of the top sides can't compete with. They're capable of buying just about anyone (though I don't think Barca are a force anymore and I don't see the Neymar-Messi-Suarez trio working out).

Bayern got to the position where they are by buying talented players and developing youngsters at the club. Neuer and Ribery came in as a top talents, but were definitely not top players or household names in football. Gotze is a top talent, one of the very most talented young players for me, but he's not a top player yet imo. Too inconsistent.

Robben was a Real reject. Though already a fantastic player, he was too inconsistent to be labled a top player. Top sides in Europe weren't exactly jumping to sign him back in '09. Javi Martinez was bought for a huge amount of money but it was a gamble. Hardly achieved anything before he joined Bayern. It worked out for them though, but Guardiola doesn't seem to be a fan (of course he's been unlucky with injuries)

Lahm, Alaba, Badstuber, Boateng, Schweini, Muller were developed at the club. Lewandowski and Xabi were high profile signings (comparable to Cesc and Costa). Benatia was high profile-ish after his great season at Roma.

It's not easy. Chels will have to do something similar to assemble a ridiculously talented squad. I doubt they have the pulling power and proper resources (FFP restrictions) to go out and buy those among the best in the game. Utd spent €200 mil (!) on the likes of Rojo, Shaw, Herrera, Blind... Di Maria being the top player. Look at the crap Liverpool ended up with.

All valid points. I understand how difficult it is to build a super talented squad like those mentioned but the idea we have to settle because of that is what I have an issue with. We shouldn't standstill because we have talent in Hazard, Fabregas and Costa and have filler make up the rest of the attack. If anything we should try and take advantage of their talent by giving them better support.

[Tomo 21,751]

All valid points. I understand how difficult it is to build a super talented squad like those mentioned but the idea we have to settle because of that is what I have an issue with. We shouldn't standstill because we have talent in Hazard, Fabregas and Costa and have filler make up the rest of the attack. If anything we should try and take advantage of their talent by giving them better support.

I can see where your coming from but in a lot of cases average player's can end up making a team purely because they put in the donkey work that the superstars aren't willing to do to the same extent.

United are the biggest example, Fletcher and Ji Sung Park on paper weren't good enough for top half sides let alone the top team yet were a key reason United were so successful between 2006-2011.