🇧🇷 Willian

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I didn't read any post in this thread, but I believe that there are few members, who are questioning this transfer or are in doubts shall I say.

First of all, I've been watching Shakhtar a lot, and Anzhi not so much, but still watched more than half of their matches. I will say shortly. This guy is game-changer. Some of you may laugh at me, but he is that kind of player, who can make a deadly through ball or make an opportunity from nothing. He's not the youngest player, but that's even better, because he will reach his peak soon. He played in Ukrainian and Russian league, nothing special. But if we look that he played under Lucescu (who is a genius tactician) and Hiddink who developed him even more, we can see that he is not just some random Brazilian playing in Russia. He didn't play for Brazil a lot, yes, because it's harder to scout players who play in a smaller league. Hulk for example, was known way before he joined Zenit, so scouts just kept watching him while playing in Russia. Fernandinho has the same story as Willian. Don't be surprised as they will be picked more and more often for national team. Mourinho will make him even better, by boosting his defending skills and improving his workrate. This guy will shine.

What about his style? Is he and out and out winger or does he have ambitions to play down the middle like most 'wingers'?

I've been hugely impressed by Schurrle, so it'll be interesting to see the impact Willian can make ahead of him.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

I didn't read any post in this thread, but I believe that there are few members, who are questioning this transfer or are in doubts shall I say.

First of all, I've been watching Shakhtar a lot, and Anzhi not so much, but still watched more than half of their matches. I will say shortly. This guy is game-changer. Some of you may laugh at me, but he is that kind of player, who can make a deadly through ball or make an opportunity from nothing. He's not the youngest player, but that's even better, because he will reach his peak soon. He played in Ukrainian and Russian league, nothing special. But if we look that he played under Lucescu (who is a genius tactician) and Hiddink who developed him even more, we can see that he is not just some random Brazilian playing in Russia. He didn't play for Brazil a lot, yes, because it's harder to scout players who play in a smaller league. Hulk for example, was known way before he joined Zenit, so scouts just kept watching him while playing in Russia. Fernandinho has the same story as Willian. Don't be surprised as they will be picked more and more often for national team. Mourinho will make him even better, by boosting his defending skills and improving his workrate. This guy will shine.

A lot of us don't like the transfer and it has nothing to do with Willian's talent. We didn't need another attacking midfielder and 32M is a massive fee for something we didn't really need.

[Melanicus 5,208]

What about his style? Is he and out and out winger or does he have ambitions to play down the middle like most 'wingers'?

I've been hugely impressed by Schurrle, so it'll be interesting to see the impact Willian can make ahead of him.

He can play anywhere behind the striker in 4-2-3-1 formation. In Shakhtar he mostly played on the left side. But I believe, in modern football there isn't such term as fixed position during the match, because during match players rotate and that's the best way to confuse opponent. Of course, when we see a squad we get a picture where someone will be mostly playing during the match, but as I said, players rotate. Willian is a poor finisher, but he really doesn't shoot that much. He isn't your classical winger that runs to the very end of the pitch and then crosses the ball into the box. I'd say he cuts in and then makes a key pass. He had most key passes in the Russian league last season and he assisted 3 of 4 Anzhi goals this seasons. His dribbling abillity is one of the best. I don't overreact, in terms of driblling he is on the same level as Hazard, if not better. In my opinion Jose, will play him in the middle, trying to transform Oscar to pivot player.

RW/RAM: Mata, De Bruyne

LW/LAM: Hazard, Schurrle

CAM: Willian, (Oscar)

Imagine Hazard, Willian & Mata all changing their positions behind the striker, causing a diarrhea in pants of the defenders.

A lot of us don't like the transfer and it has nothing to do with Willian's talent. We didn't need another attacking midfielder and 32M is a massive fee for something we didn't really need.

I undestand where you are coming from, but you really can't have too much qaulity. It's only better for our club to see that we have players on the bench that could play in other teams as the first choice. I also think we should buy CB/CDM, but as I said, if we buy quality player it can't do us wrong, even if it isn't our main priority.

[The Skipper 20,609]

Melanicus, I personally don't think Willian won't play at number 10 too often for us because he's far more effective than Mata on the flanks.

I think he'll play opposite Hazard on the right flank.

[Melanicus 5,208]

Melanicus, I personally don't think Willian won't play at number 10 too often for us because he's far more effective than Mata on the flanks.

I think he'll play opposite Hazard on the right flank.

The problem with Willian is that he doesn't contribute a lot in the defence. Mata has also the same problem, but Mata has left leg. Why I say this? Because Mourinho clearly stated that he likes his wingers to have opposite foot to the side they are playing. So he wants left footed player on the right, we only have Mata who is left footed. Of course Willian is good with both feet, but I'm almost sure Mata will be the first choice on the right. And as I already said before, they will change positions non-stop during the match, so it really doesn't matter that much.

[Funkyflashman 187]

He can play anywhere behind the striker in 4-2-3-1 formation. In Shakhtar he mostly played on the left side. But I believe, in modern football there isn't such term as fixed position during the match, because during match players rotate and that's the best way to confuse opponent. Of course, when we see a squad we get a picture where someone will be mostly playing during the match, but as I said, players rotate. Willian is a poor finisher, but he really doesn't shoot that much. He isn't your classical winger that runs to the very end of the pitch and then crosses the ball into the box. I'd say he cuts in and then makes a key pass. He had most key passes in the Russian league last season and he assisted 3 of 4 Anzhi goals this seasons. His dribbling abillity is one of the best. I don't overreact, in terms of driblling he is on the same level as Hazard, if not better. In my opinion Jose, will play him in the middle, trying to transform Oscar to pivot player.

RW/RAM: Mata, De Bruyne

LW/LAM: Hazard, Schurrle

CAM: Willian, (Oscar)

Imagine Hazard, Willian & Mata all changing their positions behind the striker, causing a diarrhea in pants of the defenders.

I undestand where you are coming from, but you really can't have too much qaulity. It's only better for our club to see that we have players on the bench that could play in other teams as the first choice. I also think we should buy CB/CDM, but as I said, if we buy quality player it can't do us wrong, even if it isn't our main priority.

I think this is a very good point, if we look at the most successful teams in Europe right now, teams like Bayern can start Robben, Kroos, Ribery and STILL have players like shaquiri, muller, gotze on the bench. Price may be a ittle high, but willian is certainly not a misguided purchase.

[The Skipper 20,609]

The problem with Willian is that he doesn't contribute a lot in the defence. Mata has also the same problem, but Mata has left leg. Why I say this? Because Mourinho clearly stated that he likes his wingers to have opposite foot to the side they are playing. So he wants left footed player on the right, we only have Mata who is left footed. Of course Willian is good with both feet, but I'm almost sure Mata will be the first choice on the right. And as I already said before, they will change positions non-stop during the match, so it really doesn't matter that much.

Yeah, you're right regarding such but I think Willian is actually the better option out wide simply because he can take his man on and beat him, and provide better width. I don't think Willian is a better number 10 than Mata at all, so buying him for that spot when we have Oscar and KDB who can also play there doesn't make sense - couple it with the fact that we sent out our only true right winger out on loan (Moses), I think Willian will predominantly play on the right, but will obviously exchange in game with the likes of Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Schurrle & KDB.

I also think from what I've seen of Willian during his time at Shakhtar and Anzhi that defensively he's better than Mata especially when it comes to work rate - probably because he's more athletic. He's used to playing on the flanks anyway seeing as at Anzhi Eto'o does play as the 10 behind Lacine Traore, with Zhirkov and Willian flanking him. It'll probably be the same here at CFC but with our 3 AMs behind Eto'o or whoever is up front exchanging a lot more fluently.

[Melanicus 5,208]

Yeah, you're right regarding such but I think Willian is actually the better option out wide simply because he can take his man on and beat him, and provide better width. I don't think Willian is a better number 10 than Mata at all, so buying him for that spot when we have Oscar and KDB who can also play there doesn't make sense - couple it with the fact that we sent out our only true right winger out on loan (Moses), I think Willian will predominantly play on the right, but will obviously exchange in game with the likes of Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Schurrle & KDB.

I also think from what I've seen of Willian during his time at Shakhtar and Anzhi that defensively he's better than Mata especially when it comes to work rate - probably because he's more athletic. He's used to playing on the flanks anyway seeing as at Anzhi Eto'o does play as the 10 behind Lacine Traore, with Zhirkov and Willian flanking him. It'll probably be the same here at CFC but with our 3 AMs behind Eto'o or whoever is up front exchanging a lot more fluently b

Willian is by no way better #10 than Mata. He is also faster, or should I say he has better acceleration than Mata and better dribbler of the ball. He is certainly more suited as a wide attacking midfielder, but those quotes by Mourinho saying that he wants his left footed players to play on the right made me think that it will be Mata playing on the right side.

But you never know really, Mourinho also said it was 'Rooney or bust' so we will see. By no means we can say that Willian isn't a good signing or that he won't help Chelsea in this season.

[kellzfresh 7,229]

What if some games, Mou wants to go as fast as possible on the counter, and sends hazard back to his loved #10 position and plays schurrle since he's impressed more on the right.

Eto

Willian - Hazard - Schurrle

We'll be so fast on the counter, no team will even dare attack us

[lucio 5,418]

What if some games, Mou wants to go as fast as possible on the counter, and sends hazard back to his loved #10 position and plays schurrle since he's impressed more on the right.

Eto

Willian - Hazard - Schurrle

We'll be so fast on the counter, no team will even dare attack us

dont forget rammy bombing forward too

[LDN Blue 7,903]

What if some games, Mou wants to go as fast as possible on the counter, and sends hazard back to his loved #10 position and plays schurrle since he's impressed more on the right.

Eto

Willian - Hazard - Schurrle

We'll be so fast on the counter, no team will even dare attack us

I'd still back Oscar for the no10.

[Strike 7,797]

Oscar in the middle please. Now that we have Willian, Schurrle, KdB, no more of Oscar on the flanks

[kellzfresh 7,229]

I'd still back Oscar for the no10.

Oscar in the middle please. Now that we have Willian, Schurrle, KdB, no more of Oscar on the flanks

I know but that formation would be a countering heaven

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I know but that formation would be a countering heaven

Ah okay. Against what kinds of teams?

[kellzfresh 7,229]

Ah okay. Against what kinds of teams?

Practically any decent team that attack in numbers. Once they lose the ball, the front three could dribble into space at will. Since they are so fast, it would take just 4-7 seconds to get into the opposition box to have a shot lool.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Practically any decent team that attack in numbers. Once they lose the ball, the front three could dribble into space at will. Since they are so fast, it would take just 4-7 seconds to get into the opposition box to have a shot lool.

That's a terrible way to play to be honest, I really, highly, doubt that Mourinho's going to be playing this way.. Which is why I don't imagine Willian is going to displace Schurrle.

[Jase 43,479]

That's a terrible way to play to be honest, I really, highly, doubt that Mourinho's going to be playing this way.. Which is why I don't imagine Willian is going to displace Schurrle.

TBF, kellzfresh did mention Mourinho might line up that way and play on the counter for some games.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

TBF, kellzfresh did mention Mourinho might line up that way and play on the counter for some games.

Practically any decent team that attack in numbers. Once they lose the ball, the front three could dribble into space at will. Since they are so fast, it would take just 4-7 seconds to get into the opposition box to have a shot lool.

This is true!

[Barbara 15,149]

The problem with Willian is that he doesn't contribute a lot in the defence. Mata has also the same problem, but Mata has left leg. Why I say this? Because Mourinho clearly stated that he likes his wingers to have opposite foot to the side they are playing. So he wants left footed player on the right, we only have Mata who is left footed. Of course Willian is good with both feet, but I'm almost sure Mata will be the first choice on the right. And as I already said before, they will change positions non-stop during the match, so it really doesn't matter that much.

Yeah, you're right regarding such but I think Willian is actually the better option out wide simply because he can take his man on and beat him, and provide better width. I don't think Willian is a better number 10 than Mata at all, so buying him for that spot when we have Oscar and KDB who can also play there doesn't make sense - couple it with the fact that we sent out our only true right winger out on loan (Moses), I think Willian will predominantly play on the right, but will obviously exchange in game with the likes of Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Schurrle & KDB.

I also think from what I've seen of Willian during his time at Shakhtar and Anzhi that defensively he's better than Mata especially when it comes to work rate - probably because he's more athletic. He's used to playing on the flanks anyway seeing as at Anzhi Eto'o does play as the 10 behind Lacine Traore, with Zhirkov and Willian flanking him. It'll probably be the same here at CFC but with our 3 AMs behind Eto'o or whoever is up front exchanging a lot more fluently.

Willian is by no way better #10 than Mata. He is also faster, or should I say he has better acceleration than Mata and better dribbler of the ball. He is certainly more suited as a wide attacking midfielder, but those quotes by Mourinho saying that he wants his left footed players to play on the right made me think that it will be Mata playing on the right side.

But you never know really, Mourinho also said it was 'Rooney or bust' so we will see. By no means we can say that Willian isn't a good signing or that he won't help Chelsea in this season.

If I had to rate the players work-rate and defence production I'd rate Mata at 5 and Willian at 6.5 - and I feel like being nice to Mata with that 5 rating.

On the bold parts I think you guys covered basically everything I'd cover myself.

Yes, his work rate is considerably better because he's more athletic, but also faster. He presses more than Mata does. So if the ball is lost in his territory he's the kind of guy that turns around quickly and starts pressing the ball. But he has a problem - sometimes he seems 'to forget' to do it, which is why he doesn't make the 7 rating imo. So the fact he's faster, more willing to press, and more athletic than Mata already puts him ahead of the Spaniard regarding this.

Also I agree with both of you who said Mata is much better a #10 than he is.

This may be an unpopular opinion - or maybe I don't make much sense - but at the end of the day it could be that Mata is splitting more matches with Willin in the RW than in the middle with Oscar. I may be wrong, but I feel like Oscar might be Mourinho's favorite player in the squad (although I think he rates Eden higher in terms of talent and potential). So unless Oscar starts playing sub-par or Mata changes completely his work rate from the last two seasons (Hazard himself improved a lot on it, already under Benitez, but more significantly already under Mourinho imo) I think Mourinho may favor a partnership of Oscar and Hazard + another and this 'another' could be Mata, Willian or Schürrle.

Of course there will be plenty of matches Oscar won't start and a few he might not play at all. The same may happen with Eden. But along with Cech, Luiz and Ramires, I think those two are going to be the players to start most matches for us this season. Ivan and Lamps might be close seconds and I think there will be some sort of more often rotation between Terry and Cahill. I think Eto'o will start a lot, but Mourinho won't give up on Fernando so soon and he has to allow Ba to play the odd match.

As for Mata I honestly don't know where he stands. I could be wrong in my Oscar assessment, but given what I know about Mou, what both him and Oscar had said about each other (especially Mou's words) I just feel like that.

Also let's look a bit to Mou's Madrid. Ronaldo was even worse at work rate than Mata is; di María was quite decent and even Benzema and Pipita pressed a lot. Ozil really depended on the day. the biggest difference? Their pivot is much better at defending than ours. Although Lamps and Ramires are better than Khedira and Alonso in some things (Alonso is slow, Khedira distribution is awful - although Alonso makes up for it x10, they didn't offered much coming to the attack [scoring or assisting, except Xabi's eventual perfect cross]). Their counter-attack style relied on Alonso giving amazing long passes or Khedira passing to Alonso, di Maria, Ronaldo or Ozil. Because of the quality of their AM and Xabi's passing their transition was smooth and worked in the counter. But their pressing was high and good with the exception of Ronaldo.

We don't have the same pressing quality - yet, I guess, but it'll come and I guess soon - but mainly we don't have a double pivot as solid defensively as Alonso-Khedira imo. Rami-Lamps are more b2b players with above the average attacking resources, but not exactly defending. We need our AM to press and tackle more than RM did because of that. Again, it's only my opinion and take on this. That favors Oscar style and the reason why I think Mou keeps affording Lamps in the team.

I'd still back Oscar for the no10.

Oscar in the middle please. Now that we have Willian, Schurrle, KdB, no more of Oscar on the flanks

Yep. No matter if he's in the bench or starting he has to play in the middle. We have plenty of options for the wings now and Willian is really good with both feet so he can alternate positions with Eden during the match more naturally than Oscar does.

[DanishBlue 426]

Barbara - do you think that Mou would be willing to try out Oscar in the pivot? That would solve the problem with Mata not playing. On the other hand we would still need some defending I guess.