The curious case of Courtois

[CHOULO19 24,332]

Whereas Courtois just throws in worldies to win Copa Del Rays?

Cech's a great keeper but his reputation isn't so fragile that we need to do Courtois down. We can certainly win the league next year with Courtois in goal because he is that good. Barcelona seem to think the same if the reports are true.

If you honestly think Courtois would cost us points that Cech wouldn't then let's just add this to the list of things we disagree about.

The point is that unless the defence and midfield improves, we're not going to win the title. I trust Jose to sort that out first (by shipping off some dead wood) and I honestly believe that swapping Courtois for Cech wouldn't damage our chances in the slightest.

I'm not disputing that Thibaut is a good keeper or that he is capable of pulling off world-class save, I'm just saying that he can't do it as consistently as Petr. Cech is still the better keeper, especially when it comes to positioning and decision making, which is only natural because those things come with experience. But that could sometimes be the difference between 3 points and no points. Not sure how Barcelona come into the equation. They have Victoe Valdez i goal, there is absolutely no comparison.

[The only place to be 11,313]

I'm not disputing that Thibaut is a good keeper or that he is capable of pulling off world-class save, I'm just saying that he can't do it as consistently as Petr. Cech is still the better keeper, especially when it comes to positioning and decision making, which is only natural because those things come with experience. But that could sometimes be the difference between 3 points and no points. Not sure how Barcelona come into the equation. They have Victoe Valdez i goal, there is absolutely no comparison.

I just think this is one more point where you're just dead wrong. I've watched Courtois a lot this year and he's got a great head on those shoulders, which is in keeping with a lot of the other youngsters we've got in our squad. I think you're just throwing around generalities that one might expect to be true and don't take a shred of knowledge of the player to spout.

It's like that save of his against Madrid that you decided to criticise, but you simply showed up your lack of knowledge about goalkeeping. That was a world-class save that combined anticipation, reflexes and bravery and you still decided to tear it to shreds in a completely bogus manner.

[CHOULO19 24,332]

For all of his world class saves, don't forget that there's also been moments in the season where Cech could've done a lot better. Cech is a legend and all, but he isn't perfect, but neither is any keeper for that matter.

All I know is that Courtois has a lot more time on his side and is one of the best young goalkeepers that Europe has seen in quite some time, probably since Casillas (in terms of age/raw talent) broke at Real. I'm a sucker for sentimentality to some degree, but these aren't players who can be rotated like Lampard and Terry.

Cech is still world class and will be for a while yet, I'm not doubting that, but Courtois can be world class for us for much longer. We have a chance to transition from one top keeper to another, that a real rarity in the game, especially considering how little we paid. I just don't think we should risk throwing away one of the brightest talents in Europe for mainly, what I can see, are sentimental reasons.

P.S. I think Courtois should be loaned back to Atletico next season (after a contract extension) and to a PL club the season after before attempting to take no. 1 spot.

That doesn't really conflict with what I said. I'm not saying that we should throw Thibaut away, just that at the moment it makes much more sense to keep Cech and loan Courtois out because Petr is still the better keeper. At the end of next season we can asses the situation again and make a decision again.

PS: I'm not sure what mistakes you're talking about. You can literally count the 'mistakes' Cech has made this season on one hand.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

We have to remember how Cech made his break in a Chelsea jersey.

When he first came to the club we had Carlo Cudicini as our #1 and we didn't think he'd be replaced any time soon. I used to love watching Cudicini keep, he wasn't the tallest but he made up for it with class reflexes and brilliant footwork. Back then, he was untouchable, we didn't think this random Czech signing would be displacing our favorite Italian any time soon, did we?

Then what happens? Cudicini picks up and injury pre-season, Mourinho gives Cech his opportunity and almost 9 years on, we haven't looked back. Though Ranieri signed Cech, it was Mourinho who gave Cech and inch and the Czech took his opportunity and ran a mile with it.

Who's to say the same won't happen this time. There's been paper talk about Mourinho wanting to bring Courtois back with him, which makes sense because Mou would've kept a close eye on the Athletico keeper. For all we know, Mourinho might decide to 'do a Cech' with Courtois and 'a Cudicini' with Cech.

[EBH 283]

Too soon, Petr is only 31 32 33 or something like that. Still maybe very good 4-5 years. VanderSar play until 41 for United. Why not Petr?

[didierforever 7,349]

For me it's Mourinho's choice. If he decides to keep or sell Cech I am happy with either choice he takes.

By the way, how much do you guys think Manchester City would pay for Cech ?

i ll take out my eyes before watching cech in a city, united and especially arse-anal jersey...

[Leif 6,006]

I genuinely believe it's rubbish when people say "Courtois isn't near Cech's level yet". You know what? I believe he's better than Cech.. on a few levels.

Courtois has more agility, better ball distribution, the best reflexes of a keeper I've personally ever seen on a consistent basis, he dominates when it comes to the air (something Cech hasn't put his all into ever since his head accident, understandably) and he never just stands there and acts like he doesn't have to go for the ball in 'hope' that it just goes over the cross-bar or goes out wide - something Cech has done numerous times over the past 2 seasons which has lead to quite a few equalisers and even losing goals.

His only real drawback is protecting his near post at times and punching the ball when he should catch.

Cech has better penalty saving I believe - some of the best in the world actually, and he's a better shot-stopper, has 'experience' (Courtois has won what, 5 trophies at Atletico Madrid? But that's not 'experience' ) and is incredible at 'clutch' moments which is more about mentality than physical attributes.

We can't keep holding onto sentiment. I genuinely believe some people on here would rather keep Cech as #1 for 2 more seasons and actually sell Courtois and then go searching for someone half as good as Courtois when Cech can no longer play at this level.

Sometimes, even when a player is still very good and is a legend at a club, he has to be replaced or at least have someone else bled into his position.

Raul was still good at Madrid - Moved on. Klose Was still good at Bayern - Moved on. Scholes was/is still an excellent player but United kept playing Cleverley and even Jones in his position instead because they understand the concept of preparing for the future.

I don't see a problem in giving Cech the Cudicini role or even letting him join another non-rival club. He deserves to play somewhere like Milan (who're looking for a new #1) with some sunshine and still play at a top, but slightly less demanding, level.

Courtois is the future but he is also the present. It can't be denied that he'll be one of, if not the very best goalkeeper in the world one day. Why limit the chances of that happening at our club to just squeeze the last bit out of Cech?

[Stats 7,136]

Too soon, Petr is only 31 32 33 or something like that. Still maybe very good 4-5 years. VanderSar play until 41 for United. Why not Petr?

Well hopefully Cech is not derailed by injuries however unlike VdS, Cech has had more injuries and maybe this could be a problem in the future, hopefully not and with Courtois he could be the no.1 keeper here for maybe up to two decades. Future sorted

[BlueDude 49]

Too soon, Petr is only 31 32 33 or something like that. Still maybe very good 4-5 years. VanderSar play until 41 for United. Why not Petr?

I agree. But we can't lose Courtois also or else in a couple of years when Cech retires we won't have any great goalkeepers at all.

[OneMoSalah 8,883]

I would sacrifice Cech to make sure Courtois is a Chelsea player for sure next year. All this talk of us swapping him for Falcao or even Barcalona and Real sniffing around is making me worry. Hes eventually going to want to kick start his career so we need to get him involved sooner rather than later.

Cech is an amazing keeper and has been an utter beast in the sticks for us but I think its time (either the start of next season or the one after) that Thibaut gets involved. I feel he can eclipse Cech, which is very very high praise and would love to see him get games sooner rather than later. Hes making incredible noise in Spain so why not give him a shot here? Yes Cech has been here since 2004 basically and has won it all with us but hes going to have to leave soon. Plus you know what Roman thinks about the average age of the squad, he wants it reduced hence the 1 year deals for Lamps and Cole so it could be the same with Cech soon enough.

[Stats 7,136]

I genuinely believe it's rubbish when people say "Courtois isn't near Cech's level yet". You know what? I believe he's better than Cech.. on a few levels.

Courtois has more agility, better ball distribution, the best reflexes of a keeper I've personally ever seen on a consistent basis, he dominates when it comes to the air (something Cech hasn't put his all into ever since his head accident, understandably) and he never just stands there and acts like he doesn't have to go for the ball in 'hope' that it just goes over the cross-bar or goes out wide - something Cech has done numerous times over the past 2 seasons which has lead to quite a few equalisers and even losing goals.

His only real drawback is protecting his near post at times and punching the ball when he should catch.

Cech has better penalty saving I believe - some of the best in the world actually, and he's a better shot-stopper, has 'experience' (Courtois has won what, 5 trophies at Atletico Madrid? But that's not 'experience' ) and is incredible at 'clutch' moments which is more about mentality than physical attributes.

We can't keep holding onto sentiment. I genuinely believe some people on here would rather keep Cech as #1 for 2 more seasons and actually sell Courtois and then go searching for someone half as good as Courtois when Cech can no longer play at this level.

Sometimes, even when a player is still very good and is a legend at a club, he has to be replaced or at least have someone else bled into his position.

Raul was still good at Madrid - Moved on. Klose Was still good at Bayern - Moved on. Scholes was/is still an excellent player but United kept playing Cleverley and even Jones in his position instead because they understand the concept of preparing for the future.

I don't see a problem in giving Cech the Cudicini role or even letting him join another non-rival club. He deserves to play somewhere like Milan (who're looking for a new #1) with some sunshine and still play at a top, but slightly less demanding, level.

Courtois is the future but he is also the present. It can't be denied that he'll be one of, if not the very best goalkeeper in the world one day. Why limit the chances of that happening at our club to just squeeze the last bit out of Cech?

I also find it hard when people say Cech is much better, simply because Courtois has just been all positives since his move to Atletico and you can't really pick out any flaws from his game to say he is inferior to Cech.

[Jase 43,479]

Rotating goalkeepers doesn't work in my opinion. One has to be top dog, and know it. Otherwise it's Always trouble.

So for me the question comes down to either Courtois, either Cech. I would let Courtois develop one more year (loan to Atletico or another team) and then let him take over next year, when he is even more of a beast then he is now.

Not too sure if I agree with the 2nd point there but yeah. Rotating keepers is just plain silly. There won't be any consistency in the defence!

And I also made this point recently about Courtois in his thread.

...There's no way he (and Lukaku and KDB too IMO) would want to come back here and play 2nd fiddle to Cech and only play the odd game here and there. He and the rest of our Belgian lot will want to play week in week out to cement and book their place in the Belgium squad for the World Cup 2014. And in their cases, neither of them want to lose the spots to their other counterparts playing in the same position as them to the likes of Mignolet, Mirallas, Benteke etc who are all playing every game in every weekend for their respective clubs right now.

[Hamilton 2,120]

Just loan him to Atletico another year, we got a solution for him and he's happy to play CL with them. Everybody happy.

Next year i'll come back to this thread to think what's the next step.

[Stingray 9,441]

I don't know based on what people just plainly say Cech is so much better than Courtois, and/or that Courtois isn't ready for a club like Chelsea.

Where do you base that on?

1. Cech is the better keeper - world class

2. Cech ALSO had errors this season - remember him coming out when he shouldn't have and other decisions that could have been better. Hoofing the ball forward plenty of times ( just check the match threads)

3. So did Courtois at times - then again he is younger. BUT it did not happen significantly more frequent. Show me when and where he did make such errors?

4. Courtois just won a lot! Uefa league, Uefa Cup, Copa del Rey, Best keeper in the league, Belgian champion, Last season: Most minutes without goal when playing out ever for Atletico (680 minutes), This year: Most minutes without goals at home (819), Youngest keeper ever with the NT at 19, Belgian Champion, Best keeper in the belgian league in 2011 and so on ....

Who are we kidding .... the gap between these two fabulous goalies is very, very thin. Sure Cech has more experience, probably is still better ...... but we are biased by the emotional value he represents. Also, we (some of us) don't see Courtois that much.

Courtois is wanted by the biggest clubs. Why, oh why? Because there is a huge gap between the two?

I think to claim that is irrational though understandable. I love him as well. By next year there will be serious competition between these two. Time is on Thibaults' hand so no matter what ... he WILL be our goalie eventually.

ps: To think that Cech can go on untill 41 is taking a HUGE leap of faith btw.

[Leif 6,006]

This is my only and major worry when it comes to Courtois. These are considered some of his best 'saves' at Atletico but just look how many times he parries the ball away for a corner or to the opposition when he should actually hold it in his hands. He needs to work on that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFwMp2l1cK4