Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire

[ZanSnake 1,211]

I think the club should be seen more as a football club rather then being seen as a 'business'. We have the Gourclay, who doesn't know anything about football, who comes out with this terrible shit, now and then, trying to make the 'dumb-witted' fans to try and understand why the board makes it's decision, which most times implies negative responses on the field. If the club was more interested on the football on the pitch, rather then the money going into their back-pocket, maybe we wouldn't have to grieve every time a manager goes into a lack of form.

The only way forward is for Roman to swallow his pride, and get back the only person who has the talent to reemerge us, and make us the great power we were, and that is Jose.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

They're paying too much, but they back up what they spend. We've spent £50m on Torres, half that on Luiz, £35m on Hazard, around £27m on Mata, £20m on Oscar etc. We've actually spent around the same as them if we date back to the Torres purchase - and since then, of course we have a CL title, but their current team in the CL - we are not. And they're on course to win their league - we are not. They also have a board and backroom staff who are built for football; many of which are ex-AC Milan. They've got one of the best managers in the world and market themselves really well while also communicating with the fans.

They do have good people, but it doesn't matter, because you could put idiots in charge and if you are outspending everyone 10/1, you should win the league easily. Some of their signings are working out, some have been poor. Pastore, Lavezzi, and Veratti cost about 75M and have been pretty mediocre in lesser league. Thiago Silva is excellent, but 35M and 160K/week on a five year contract a 28 year old central defender? That's just crazy money. And Lucas Moura has looked good early on, but 45M Euros for an unproven player? That's a massive risk. It's the Chelsea 2003/2004 model where you just spend so much that some players turn out and the ones that don't, don't matter because you'll just spend 100M more the next season. That model is why we're in the trouble we're in. Massive, reckless spending on prestige signings.

[robdog 2,084]

They do have good people, but it doesn't matter, because you could put idiots in charge and if you are outspending everyone 10/1, you should win the league easily. Some of their signings are working out, some have been poor. Pastore, Lavezzi, and Veratti cost about 75M and have been pretty mediocre in lesser league. Thiago Silva is excellent, but 35M and 160K/week on a five year contract a 28 year old central defender? That's just crazy money. And Lucas Moura has looked good early on, but 45M Euros for an unproven player? That's a massive risk. It's the Chelsea 2003/2004 model where you just spend so much that some players turn out and the ones that don't, don't matter because you'll just spend 100M more the next season. That model is why we're in the trouble we're in. Massive, reckless spending on prestige signings.

Right & failure to produce quality youth products. But TBH, it's rare to have more than 2 or 3 Top Youth products to break into Top side like ours.

[TorontoChelsea 4,064]

Right & failure to produce quality youth products. But TBH, it's rare to have more than 2 or 3 Top Youth products to break into Top side like ours.

I have no problem with that. I don't even have a problem buying our young players like we did with De Bruyne, Courtois and Lukaku. It works. The issue is this: we've spent in the 20M and over range on six players in the last three years. Only one, Mata, I would consider close to top-level. Hazard is not far behind. Ramires and Luiz are good but flawed players. Oscar has promise. Torres is not even worth mentioning. In that same period ManU has spent 20M+ on one player. Robin Van Persie. When you spend elite money, you should be getting elite players a lot of the time. We're not.

[GodZola 630]

I believe that the club is making strides in the right direction to become self sustainable - most on here were applauding their business strategy last year were they were bringing in different revenue streams. The hierarchy finally have applied some common sense in their approach to signing players - younger, lower wages & a potential sell on fee, the youth set up is starting to bare fruit although there is still much work to be done in this area imho

However its more on the playing side where the hierarchy have made mistakes, this goes back to Jose's reign were he had players shoved on him he didn't want, Arneson given overall running of the youth set up, he was then sacked that followed a succession of poor management appointments, Wilkins being sacked for speaking his mind & more recently the waste of 50m, premature sacking of Robbie & lastly installing a manager that would upset just about every fan & this was probably the straw that broke the camels back for many fans who saw this appointment as complete ignorance.

For me though the near future is where the club can make huge strides forward on & off the pitch if they appoint the right manager who is given time to get things right for a change (not tin tacked after a poor spell) I have to agree with FB in that we need a football person on the board that can give the expertise on the playing side that is transparently lacking in the boardroom, Wilkins would be my choice - not only does he have the club at heart he also has a wealth of knowledge & has that personal touch too.

There are some massive decisions coming up in next 6 months which will be fundamental to our future - releasing Benitez, employing the right manager, selling Torres, loan players returning etc, Roman & the board have a huge role to play & if they get it right then we will be sitting pretty this time next year & set up for the near future to challenge again, if they don't then it could set us back years. Come August I expect most of those decisions to be in place......

Oh by the way I don't care Rafa is still our manager, I will be there Saturday supporting 'the team' all this negativity about our club reminds me of sour fuckin bitter Liverpool & Arsenal fans moaning about what used to be, yeah we've been shite but let's not stoop to their art of whinge'ing - please!

[Blue Armour 4,461]

I believe that the club is making strides in the right direction to become self sustainable - most on here were applauding their business strategy last year were they were bringing in different revenue streams. The hierarchy finally have applied some common sense in their approach to signing players - younger, lower wages & a potential sell on fee, the youth set up is starting to bare fruit although there is still much work to be done in this area imho

However its more on the playing side where the hierarchy have made mistakes, this goes back to Jose's reign were he had players shoved on him he didn't want, Arneson given overall running of the youth set up, he was then sacked that followed a succession of poor management appointments, Wilkins being sacked for speaking his mind & more recently the waste of 50m, premature sacking of Robbie & lastly installing a manager that would upset just about every fan & this was probably the straw that broke the camels back for many fans who saw this appointment as complete ignorance.

For me though the near future is where the club can make huge strides forward on & off the pitch if they appoint the right manager who is given time to get things right for a change (not tin tacked after a poor spell) I have to agree with FB in that we need a football person on the board that can give the expertise on the playing side that is transparently lacking in the boardroom, Wilkins would be my choice - not only does he have the club at heart he also has a wealth of knowledge & has that personal touch too.

There are some massive decisions coming up in next 6 months which will be fundamental to our future - releasing Benitez, employing the right manager, selling Torres, loan players returning etc, Roman & the board have a huge role to play & if they get it right then we will be sitting pretty this time next year & set up for the near future to challenge again, if they don't then it could set us back years. Come August I expect most of those decisions to be in place......

Oh by the way I don't care Rafa is still our manager, I will be there Saturday supporting 'the team' all this negativity about our club reminds me of sour fuckin bitter Liverpool & Arsenal fans moaning about what used to be, yeah we've been shite but let's not stoop to their art of whinge'ing - please!

Agreed. And good post.

[nachikethas 1,154]

just hire jose or a good manager and kick torres out every thing will be ok. we seriously lacking a fear factor for others.its like even smaller teams arent afraid of us.

[ZOS 580]

we're all disappointed with all what is going around the club, but wishing Roman to walk away?........come on guys

[Fulham Broadway 17,362]

Is it just Buck you want out?

Rafa is a symptom of the cancer, a rogue cell in an infected body, the whole tumour has to be removed along with its apologists, and then some disinfecting of the surrounding cells followed by a treatment of radiotherapy

[The only place to be 11,313]

Rafa is a symptom of the cancer, a rogue cell in an infected body, the whole tumour has to be removed along with its apologists, and then some disinfecting of the surrounding cells followed by a treatment of radiotherapy

Very nicely put. Doesn't actually mean anything though. I can see the case for Buck going but I personally think the problems started before Gourlay and Emenalo took up their roles and I like the changes we've made since they actually took over. Do you have any specific reasons for wanting them gone?

Also, do you still think the author nailed it and thus want Roman gone?

[bushman 2,043]

The author is one bitter clueless chap about Roman.

No Roman = Chelsea are going downhill.

Currently an urgency is at the club. FIRE RAFA NOW, before, it´s too late.

The team, most of players are questioning his strategies. There is no respect for him. Just read, today´s news. It´s all there.

Rafa must go now.

[Fulham Broadway 17,362]

Very nicely put. Doesn't actually mean anything though. I can see the case for Buck going but I personally think the problems started before Gourlay and Emenalo took up their roles and I like the changes we've made since they actually took over. Do you have any specific reasons for wanting them gone?

Also, do you still think the author nailed it and thus want Roman gone?

What do you like about Gourlay and Emanalo ?

Will you change your mind shortly about them as you now have done about Lampard, Buck, and Benitez ?

[The only place to be 11,313]

What do you like about Gourlay and Emanalo ?

Will you change your mind shortly about them as you now have done about Lampard, Buck, and Benitez ?

I like the direction we've taken with regard our commercial, transfer and recruitment activities in the last couple of years (with the obvious exception of the Torres signing).

I may well change my mind if things change though. Why would I have an inflexible mind incapable of admitting mistakes?

[Peace. 4,352]

Agreed. The issue is the players that should be bridging the gap in the meantime aren't performing for a number of reasons and they have been short on numbers all year. To be fair that's good enough reason alone as to why the board should be sacked (failing to provide numerous managers with enough players to compete properly in a season). This is Ron Gourlay speaking after Munich:

"We've got Fernando Torres. And Fernando Torres is the man that we will go forward with and Fernando Torres will score us the goals," Gourlay said.

"Have no doubt that Fernando Torres is a world-class centre-forward and Fernando Torres will score goals for Chelsea."

There were stories of Di Matteo wanting another striker in the summer and being rebuffed. The decision was clearly made that Torres would be given every chance to succeed fail. Five months later we're out the Champions League, no hope of the title and end up buying a striker in the January transfer window. Who is making these decisions if it isn't the manager? Quite clearly 'the board'.

We have hoovered up a lot of young talent and it's promising but for a club that has for years failed to develop and integrate young players we have to see real progress before we go putting all our eggs into that basket.

I'd like to ad :

"It is a pleasure working with the guy [Ancelotti]," Gourlay said.

"The plan is to work with Carlo for five to 10 years. I think stability would be good for the club going forward and when we start to bring the young players forward.

"Carlo is definitely here for the long term. He is not a coach who moves around, even in his playing days. I am sure he will be around for many years to come.

"We have won the Premier League and hopefully we can win the double. But then we have to look at next season because it is important that we continue on."

That was 12 months (early May 2010) before he sacked Ancelotti in a corridor after the end of the Everton game.

In the same interview, he also said :

"No - we wouldn't get involved a bidding war," Gourlay told Sky Sports News, when asked about the club's summer transfer plans.

"If there's any player that's become available and we feel they can strengthen our team, then it will be on the terms of Chelsea Football Club.

"We've got to be respectful to the rest of the players in the pool and as we mentioned we have some great players coming through from the academy, so the future's bright."

"We are very conscious of controlling our salaries. At the same time we are expected to win every game we play so we have to get the balance right.

Eight months later, we did the opposite. Granted we didn't enter a bidding war, but we did fork out £50m. Into my book, not getting involved in a bidding war means that you don't want to overpay for a player, right ? We did overpay him. He wasn't available. The striker position wasn't the position we needed to strengthen.

He made us believe that we didn't need to buy anyone in the 2011 summer because we had Kakuta, McEachran, Bruma and Van Aaholt.

He got Ray Wilkins sacked during a Chelsea youth game.

He got Ancelotti sacked in a corridor about a few minutes after the end of our last game.

He was one of the man who — at 4 in the morning — told Roberto that he was sacked.

He has told the fans that the club needed a change of direction and that Skinny Boy was the right man.

This fat dude deserves to be kicked out of this Club.

[Fulham Broadway 17,362]

I like the direction we've taken with regard our commercial, transfer and recruitment activities in the last couple of years (with the obvious exception of the Torres signing).

I may well change my mind if things change though. Why would I have an inflexible mind incapable of admitting mistakes?

Peace has summed up Gourlay quite nicely above. As a fan, that goes to games. how do you think fans have been treated ?

Do you think a Youth policy is successful that involves loaning out then selling a constant stream of players ? Yes, you can be flexible and change your mind

[The only place to be 11,313]

Peace has summed up Gourlay quite nicely above. As a fan, that goes to games. how do you think fans have been treated ?

Do you think a Youth policy is successful that involves loaning out then selling a constant stream of players ? Yes, you can be flexible and change your mind

Peace, although I like most of what he says, has given a one-sided view of Gourlay's job. I try and look at things a little more balanced.

I think the fans have been treated like modern football fans. We were given the guy we wanted as manager in the summer and then we got the worst possible candidate when he was fired. It's a shite state of affairs but I personally look at it as something that's the result of a number of years of bad practices. I don't just blame the current regime as some people do. I think people either avoid going into specifics or misrepresent the facts (that we're aware of) when discussing the board.

Take for instance the loans. Now we're playing catch-up to get experience for the youngsters precisely because we fucked up in that department 3-5 years ago. We never had that group of players aged 20-25 to supplement the Ballacks and Makeleles in the team. That's been one of the fundamental failings of this club but I don't think we can fire many of the people responsible for that. By your logic (of blaming Gourlay) shouldn't Kenyon take the fall for that? But I hear very few people criticising him.

In fact in the original article, the author suggest re-hiring him! Do you think he's 'nailed it' with that suggestion?

The reason I've said that Buck might have a case to go is for two reasons - firstly, by using the standard I've used to judge Gourlay and Emenalo I think he actually is responsible for those issues we faced. He was the Chairman at the time after all. Secondly, I can think of someone else I'd like in his spot who has a proven track record in this type of role.

It's very easy to slip into the pantomime of being a football supporter, but these are people's jobs....people who have bills and families and wake up in the morning and stub their toes on doors. Saying they should be sacked without a little bit of considered thought is a little unkind in my view. I think any person, be it the cleaner or the owner, should have their employment situation treated with the same regard.

[Fulham Broadway 17,362]

I think the fans have been treated like modern football fans

Do you think thats a good thing ?

Peace, although I like most of what he says, has given a one-sided view of Gourlay's job

A perfectly reasonable view from a fans perspective.

He made us believe that we didn't need to buy anyone in the 2011 summer because we had Kakuta, McEachran, Bruma and Van Aaholt.

He got Ray Wilkins sacked during a Chelsea youth game.

He got Ancelotti sacked in a corridor about a few minutes after the end of our last game.

He was one of the man who — at 4 in the morning — told Roberto that he was sacked.

He has told the fans that the club needed a change of direction and that Skinny Boy was the right man.

shouldn't Kenyon take the fall for that? But I hear very few people criticising him.

Kenyon received constant criticism for exactly that on this forum, in the ground, and in the fanzines. However he looks good compared to Gourlay. You are the only person who I've ever met who goes to games who rates Gourlay.

but these are people's jobs....people who have bills and families and wake up in the morning and stub their toes on doors. Saying they should be sacked without a little bit of considered thought is a little unkind in my view

Now I know youre taking the piss/on a wind up. These people are multi-millionaires who do very little. They would be nothing without supporters.We have every right to critisize

[The only place to be 11,313]

Do you think thats a good thing ?

A perfectly reasonable view from a fans perspective.

He made us believe that we didn't need to buy anyone in the 2011 summer because we had Kakuta, McEachran, Bruma and Van Aaholt.

He got Ray Wilkins sacked during a Chelsea youth game.

He got Ancelotti sacked in a corridor about a few minutes after the end of our last game.

He was one of the man who — at 4 in the morning — told Roberto that he was sacked.

He has told the fans that the club needed a change of direction and that Skinny Boy was the right man.

Kenyon received constant criticism for exactly that on this forum, in the ground, and in the fanzines. However he looks good compared to Gourlay. You are the only person who I've ever met who goes to games who rates Gourlay.

Now I know youre taking the piss/on a wind up. These people are multi-millionaires who do very little. They would be nothing without supporters.We have every right to critisize

I don't rate Gourlay. I promise I haven't got him on my shirt but I know a few people who work on football boards and they accept that they're not going to be liked by the fans most of the time. They're the people who spend most of their lives saying no and when they do have good news (like a sponsorship deal) then it's seen as a given that they should be doing these.

But I think in this case they're being given an unfair appraisal by certain people. That doesn't mean I'm on the wind-up. When I look at the financial and commercial side of the club, I don't see many things I can criticise Gourlay for that specifically come under his remit.

If you want to have an informed, grown-up discussion about him then that's fine but that list of things he's done wrong is either unfair (no-one could have predicted the youth team players not stepping up, and I think many of us are still surprised at Josh's lack of progress), a misremembering of history (the writing for Ancelotti was on the wall for at least two months before the Everton game) or uninformed (we still don't know the full story regarding the Wilkins sacking, although my gut instinct is still that it's wrong).

The Emenalo discussion is also one worthy of a more engaged debate and it'd be a good thread title. I judge him by our player recruitment and development over his time here and I'm encouraged by that, but he certainly has some black marks against his name.

With regards Buck, I've altered my stance precisely so I'm consistent in the way I appraise these people (such that I can). He's been a constant over Roman's time here and ultimately (if you'll excuse the pun) the buck stops with him. I also see other candidates who might be able to do that job, although I do appreciate the support he gave JT.

I'm not saying people don't have the right to criticise, but I think people need to be aware that they are people doing a job the best they can. Calling them shysters or yes men from an uninformed opinion, or saying they do very little is at best unfair. A discussion on these issues deserves better than that.

[Fulham Broadway 17,362]

So now youre backtracking on Gourlay, as well as Lampard, Buck, and Benitez.

OK lets move on to Emanalo -bloke is a mate/recommendation of the fat sack of shit Grunt, who in turn got his position from puting the cones out at Portsmouth to toadying up to Abramovich. Enough said.

I dont care if theyre ''doing a job as best they can'' -if theyre not up to it, and fucking over a club Ive supported since 1967 they can fuck off

[Changingman_2000 876]

Come on chaps. Calling for Roman head, are you kidding ?

If he were to go, Chelsea club is nowhere within 2-3 years. Just like before he came on.

"Before he came on" we were regularly in the Champions League and challenging. We weren't a nobody, hovering around mid-table, or lower, we were always there or there abouts, finishing only four points behind Man Ure in 99. We started improving, league and cup wise, mainly under Ruud, then onwards through Vialli. Hoodle did start the upturn, but league placings each of his three years wouldn't really back that up So, with respect, to say we were "nowhere" is miles off reality.