Fernando Torres

[Madmax 9,219]

Beat me to it, LDN

Torres being fit/settled/in good mental condition doesn't matter though. What we do over the next 3 months in terms of settling on our midfield options and style of play is what will ultimately determine his goal return next year.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Whatever we do with our midfield he better make sure he gets himself involved to help them.

Watching the Spain game on Saturday I was well annoyed with him. Before he scored the goal he isolated himself from that section of the pitch, like he was waiting for an easy ball. Indeed it came, but he'll have to work more for the team if he does want to have a good season.

[DYC. 7,542]

Whatever we do with our midfield he better make sure he gets himself involved to help them.

Watching the Spain game on Saturday I was well annoyed with him. Before he scored the goal he isolated himself from that section of the pitch, like he was waiting for an easy ball. Indeed it came, but he'll have to work more for the team if he does want to have a good season.

You can forget about that, Torres has always been like that. But since he scored a lot of goals, nobody cared/noticed it.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

You can forget about that, Torres has always been like that. But since he scored a lot of goals, nobody cared/noticed it.

Let's hope our new manager does something about it then :\

All great strikers get involved in the play.. Just look at Rooney (though I hate to). He'll link up the play in midfield, defence and attack. A great player on the pitch, he really is. Even Drogba does it. Anelka does it too much though

[Madmax 9,219]

So he should come deep because the midfield can't make one decent pass in a game? Don't think so. Like Blue Heart said, Torres is like that, we knew it when we got him. Give him a decent ball and he'll be knocking them away more often than not.

Time we questioned the (lack of) creative qualities and fantasy in our midfield and not make him a scapegoat.

[DYC. 7,542]

Let's hope our new manager does something about it then :\

All great strikers get involved in the play.. Just look at Rooney (though I hate to). He'll link up the play in midfield, defence and attack. A great player on the pitch, he really is. Even Drogba does it. Anelka does it too much though

Rooney's not a number 9 though, it's his job to get involved in build-up play. He's Utd's spark.

And Drogba does it, that's true. But then again, it's something that's part of your game/inside of you and not something you can just do. The likes of Trezeguet, Inzaghi, Ronaldo etc. hardly played a part in build-up play as well.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

So he should come deep because the midfield can't make one decent pass in a game? Don't think so. Like Blue Heart said, Torres is like that, we knew it when we got him. Give him a decent ball and he'll be knocking them away more often than not.

Time we questioned the (lack of) creative qualities and fantasy in our midfield and not make him a scapegoat.

Nah that's not what I'm saying.

Of course we need a better, more creative midfield. Can't deny that.

But the fact is, Torres needs to put in his shift. He's a great striker, one of the most deadly in the world when on form, but he's lazy. He can't expect to hover around the last defenders shoulders, expecting the perfect ball each time. Even David Villa, for Spain, will help the midfield by helping the team play through.

Even if we had an amazing midfield of the likes of Pastore, Hamsik, Fabregas and all these other great creative players, I'd still expect him to support the midfield and put in a shift.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

Rooney's not a number 9 though, it's his job to get involved in build-up play. He's Utd's spark.

And Drogba does it, that's true. But then again, it's something that's part of your game/inside of you and not something you can just do. The likes of Trezeguet, Inzaghi, Ronaldo etc. hardly played a part in build-up play as well.

Agreed, fair point.

But I remember Jimmy did it a lot. It's why we got to be so good at counter attacks, because he'd come back and win the ball, link up with the midfield, then run through, with pace. It's something I always look for strikers to do, because it pays better dividends.

I think in the Premier League it's better for a striker to do this.

[Madmax 9,219]

Nah that's not what I'm saying.

Of course we need a better, more creative midfield. Can't deny that.

But the fact is, Torres needs to put in his shift. He's a great striker, one of the most deadly in the world when on form, but he's lazy. He can't expect to hover around the last defenders shoulders, expecting the perfect ball each time. Even David Villa, for Spain, will help the midfield by helping the team play through.

Even if we had an amazing midfield of the likes of Pastore, Hamsik, Fabregas and all these other great creative players, I'd still expect him to support the midfield and put in a shift.

I get that, but it just is that not everyone is good at that all the time. They're all different types of players (Villa, Rooney, Drogba). One cut doesn't fit all. But I agree, when he's fired up (West Ham), he's a treat to watch.

[eldo 868]

Time we questioned the (lack of) creative qualities and fantasy in our midfield and not make him a scapegoat.

One fantasista and one regista should do it.

[LDN Blue 7,903]

I get that, but it just is that not everyone is good at that all the time. They're all different types of players (Villa, Rooney, Drogba). One cut doesn't fit all. But I agree, when he's fired up (West Ham), he's a treat to watch.

Fair enough haha, I just think sometimes he can do better.

Not that I'm ignoring our creative problems, by any means

[Madmax 9,219]

One fantasista and one regista should do it.

A trequartista, please.

[Tortilla9 390]

So he should come deep because the midfield can't make one decent pass in a game? Don't think so. Like Blue Heart said, Torres is like that, we knew it when we got him. Give him a decent ball and he'll be knocking them away more often than not.

Time we questioned the (lack of) creative qualities and fantasy in our midfield and not make him a scapegoat.

Torres is his most successful playing on the shoulder of the last defender waiting for the final pass, moving to find space, timing his run, and going to goal. He has never been what one would label a workhorse on the field. As Madmax, Blue Heart, and I've said ad nauseaum, he is like that.

[dodojojo 510]

I get annoyed when Torres doesn't show good and clever movement up top but I don't want to see him going out and deep to receive the ball or get into the buildup of the play (speaking generally of course). He used to do that with Atletico and Benetiz saw that his true talent wasn't being maximized because he was wasted all over the field when he could kill it in front of goal. One huge factor in why he became so deadly in the PL.

I think he can deliver a sweet pass every now and then, but you're wasting Torres if you've got him too far from goal. Rooney is a support striker at the end of the day while Torres is a tip of spear guy, you can't really compare the two. They're both very good if you use ways that take in consideration their strengths and weaknesses. The problem this season is that Torres was playing in every way possible to show his weaknesses...every player has them. Go ask David Villa to play the target man for Newcastle, he would look awful too.

Wrong system AND his poor form (yes, he's responsible too) made him look really, really bad. If he had been playing in the right system (say Dalglish' Liverpool), Torres probably would have been alright. Not claiming he would have been great, but he would be competent enough to be pretty productive.

[Tortilla9 390]

More than anything from Saturday's ass-kicking of the US, I'm glad that after he missed a great opportunity from Alonso's great ball (hesitated too long), he came back and finished off another opportunity. That was a huge + for me. I want to be cautiously optimistic about the future but the unknowns (manager, creative player, players in/out) leave me still wondering what the hell is going on with Chelsea and what will it look like next season.