The Benitez Thread

[super_frank8 186]

Can't be serious. It is ridiculously obvious that he is exactly the solution. Lamps is an experienced leader, world class finisher and legendary big match player, all that we have been missing, wasting 1000s of clear goalscoring chances, lacking head&heart and the ability to turn it on when it counts most. How did we win our trophies last season? Because we had a better coach, better tactics or more skilfull players, with tiki-taka and fancy trickery? No because our big, experienced players&leaders were at their best when it counted most, made no mistakes and used their fuckin opportunities. Without Lamps injury we would sit comfortably at the top of the epl and our cl group, cos there would have been a player who would have scored some of these 1000s of chances. In these times I would swap Oscar for Lamps every time.

100% agree with everything you have said there - apart from the last part. The whole beauty of this system is that we can have players like Oscar & Lamps linking up together - which is deadly in terms of shooting opportunites being created since they can both finish from anywhere within 35 yards of the goal.

Have you seen how many times Oscar has dribbled around on the left of the box & cut inside, obviously looking for a shot to open up, but then once he realises players closing him down like mad dogs & offloads it to the man outside the D - it unfortunately falls to either Mikel or Ramires - who inevitably attempt an unsuccessful shot or lobbed ball & lose possession, or just play it to a wing back & the chance for a shot from range is gone. With the way the team is set up in attack, there is almost always an enormous amount of space between the opposition defence & our central midfielders on the edge of the box because they are well aware of & mostly focused on the constant Mazcar threat in & around the box - & evidently not too worried about Mikel potentially shooting from range. This is the area that Lampard works in best, where he can create something out of almost nothing, or simply rifle it into the back of the net himself.

It's all theoretical of course...but from what I know & believe - we would at least be putting away more chances than we currently are - & that can only be a good thing.

[super_frank8 186]

Our biggest problem has been in defence in my opinion. I don't think he helps that problem. He may have chipped in with a couple of important goals, but Oscar has done a pretty good job of that in Europe.

I honestly don't know where he plays in the 4231.

Mate, our issue in defence is completely irrelevant to the midfield & Lampard, because we have been conceding a fuckload of goals in the last month while he's been out. In fact you could say we look even more frail without him if you do want to make it relevant to those defensive problems. But really the problem with our defence is that without JT, we have no organisation or discipline in the ranks & no one knows their places & positions; or at least adheres to them without fail. We are also simply missing his immense ability in the air as well as in making the vital blocks & tackles that prevent Cech from being peppered with shots constantly. We just seem to crumble under any kind of sustained intensive pressure from opposition, not even necessarily world class opposition as the Swansea & West Brom matches have shown.

But yer, saying that Lampard only chips in with a couple of important goals is absolutely absurd. Every goal is important when you're competing for trophies - & the fact remains that having been Chelsea's top scorer last season - he still gets a lot of them for a midfielder. Oscar is awesome, no doubt about that, & possibly the potential succesor to Lampard as our goal-scoring midfield-maestro - but for now he is a young player still constantly learning & improving in the hopes of becoming the truly indisputable world class player that he has the potential to be - & his role is further up the pitch within this 4-2-3-1 system. Would I sacrifice Oscar for Lamps? No, I wouldnt - because it is simply unnecessary & counter-productive to exclude either when you can have two such incisive & dangerous players on the field at the same time working together.

[Noctourniquet 14]

Here's a thought - Someone, right now, name one person more suited to taking the job until the end of the season who's available and willing to coach our players. Go.

Umm.. ROBBIE DI MATTEO! THAT'S WHO!

[kellzfresh 7,229]

100% agree with everything you have said there - apart from the last part. The whole beauty of this system is that we can have players like Oscar & Lamps linking up together - which is deadly in terms of shooting opportunites being created since they can both finish from anywhere within 35 yards of the goal.

Have you seen how many times Oscar has dribbled around on the left of the box & cut inside, obviously looking for a shot to open up, but then once he realises players closing him down like mad dogs & offloads it to the man outside the D - it unfortunately falls to either Mikel or Ramires - who inevitably attempt an unsuccessful shot or lobbed ball & lose possession, or just play it to a wing back & the chance for a shot from range is gone. With the way the team is set up in attack, there is almost always an enormous amount of space between the opposition defence & our central midfielders on the edge of the box because they are well aware of & mostly focused on the constant Mazcar threat in & around the box - & evidently not too worried about Mikel potentially shooting from range. This is the area that Lampard works in best, where he can create something out of almost nothing, or simply rifle it into the back of the net himself.

It's all theoretical of course...but from what I know & believe - we would at least be putting away more chances than we currently are - & that can only be a good thing.

Spot on there. Chelsea have a big problem in the pivot and most people think our pivot is okay.

The big problem is there is no goal threat from the pivot. No killer modric like passes or spraying passes to spread play or quicken counter attacks.

The problem with lampard is that, he doesn't fit with mikel in the pivot.

But I noticed our best game this season against norwich(who beat arsenal and manutd) lampard played with ramires there, and they were excellent.

We were a big threat going foward with lamps timing and ramires had the speed and energy to stop counter attacks on his own. This is where mikel is worse than ramires, because he offers no goal threat(he can't shoot on target in his life) and can't give long passes. All he does is sit in front of the defence and ramires is even better than him at tackling.

Because of lampards runs foward leaving mikel exposed he was dropped, but if it was ramires-lamps, the outcome would have been better as we know who the better tackler is..

You are also right that lamps is more intelligent than mikel who never sees hazard runs to try an overhead pass. Lampard would definately be better too in that department.

If lampard plays with mikel in the pivot, lamps doesn't play well. But with ramires, they complement each other and could be better than the mikel-ramires combo...

[The only place to be 11,313]

Jesus....seems I'm taking a load of shit for daring to question the role a player I've adored for years plays in a new system at the age of 34.

I'll start by saying that he's been one of our greatest players of all time and one of the greatest English midfielders ever to play the game. He's the bargain of the century and a great guy to boot. He's also fiercely intelligent and someone I could actually see managing us if he wanted to.

But I simply don't see what role he plays for us in the majority of games going forward. If we are going to go with the 4231 then I simply don't think he works that well in either the double pivot role or the more attacking roles which are firmly Hazard, Mata, Oscar and Moses territory. In the games I've watched him in this season, the ball slows down when it gets to him. It's noticeable. Ramires isn't much better, but he offers a lot more in terms of physicality with his engine. It's why he's been preferred alongside Mikel who we also need in that midfield for a number of reasons.

I don't know if Lamps wants to spend his last few seasons on the bench, getting increasingly few minutes. In terms of our defensive organisation I think the problems stem largely from missing Terry, but also from a lack of protection in midfield, but Lampard doesn't remedy that in my opinion.

I may have not made a few points as clearly as I should have, but I'm slightly fucked off by anyone questioning the esteem in which I hold I guy I've been supporting since his debut for us. The guy has given me so much enjoyment, but at some point players have to move on and there is also the point that we have young players who need gametime to help improve their game. The likes of McEachran and de Bruyne might not be there yet, but it can be detrimental to their long-term development to have a 35 year old (which he will be come next season) taking that spot on the bench ahead of them.

[The Big Drog 1,110]

Can't be serious. It is ridiculously obvious that he is exactly the solution. Lamps is an experienced leader, world class finisher and legendary big match player, all that we have been missing, wasting 1000s of clear goalscoring chances, lacking head&heart and the ability to turn it on when it counts most. How did we win our trophies last season? Because we had a better coach, better tactics or more skilfull players, with tiki-taka and fancy trickery? No because our big, experienced players&leaders were at their best when it counted most, made no mistakes and used their fuckin opportunities. Without Lamps injury we would sit comfortably at the top of the epl and our cl group, cos there would have been a player who would have scored some of these 1000s of chances. In these times I would swap Oscar for Lamps every time.

I'm not sure if any amount of logic can free you from the crazy train you are on. Baffling comment.

[Muzchap 8,966]

Jesus....seems I'm taking a load of shit for daring to question the role a player I've adored for years plays in a new system at the age of 34.

I'll start by saying that he's been one of our greatest players of all time and one of the greatest English midfielders ever to play the game. He's the bargain of the century and a great guy to boot. He's also fiercely intelligent and someone I could actually see managing us if he wanted to.

But I simply don't see what role he plays for us in the majority of games going forward. If we are going to go with the 4231 then I simply don't think he works that well in either the double pivot role or the more attacking roles which are firmly Hazard, Mata, Oscar and Moses territory. In the games I've watched him in this season, the ball slows down when it gets to him. It's noticeable. Ramires isn't much better, but he offers a lot more in terms of physicality with his engine. It's why he's been preferred alongside Mikel who we also need in that midfield for a number of reasons.

I don't know if Lamps wants to spend his last few seasons on the bench, getting increasingly few minutes. In terms of our defensive organisation I think the problems stem largely from missing Terry, but also from a lack of protection in midfield, but Lampard doesn't remedy that in my opinion.

I may have not made a few points as clearly as I should have, but I'm slightly fucked off by anyone questioning the esteem in which I hold I guy I've been supporting since his debut for us. The guy has given me so much enjoyment, but at some point players have to move on and there is also the point that we have young players who need gametime to help improve their game. The likes of McEachran and de Bruyne might not be there yet, but it can be detrimental to their long-term development to have a 35 year old (which he will be come next season) taking that spot on the bench ahead of them.

Ok - FORGET the DOUBLE PIVOT!!!

It's fucking shit and clearly hasn't worked!

That was RDMs ONLY formation...

If Lampard still has legs we can use him in a Scholes like position.

If I never see the fucking double pivot again it won't be too soon, with our current crop of players...

Fuck me RDMs ONE DIMENSIONAL approach has really rubbed off on you guys...

Saddening....

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

also do not like double pivot. 4-3-3 is best.

[The only place to be 11,313]

also do not like double pivot. 4-3-3 is best.

So if we play 433, where does Lamps fit in?

In my opinion if we're going with that then he still doesn't get in. The midfield 3 is either Mikel-Ramires-Oscar or Mikel-Ramires-Mata with Hazard on the left and one of about five players on the right.

[meetdoscar 335]

Lampard at 34 is experienced but overrated and doesn't make our first team for me but could be an important bit part player under benitez in vital games.

[Milan 17,859]

Couldn't resist

[Leif 6,006]

-

[Magic Lamps 11,668]

So if we play 433, where does Lamps fit in?

In my opinion if we're going with that then he still doesn't get in. The midfield 3 is either Mikel-Ramires-Oscar or Mikel-Ramires-Mata with Hazard on the left and one of about five players on the right.

????

You miss the point. This is an other problem now. First you argued he does not fit in a 4-2-3-1. There you got a point, cos his position does not exist in that system.

now you say he is not better than mata or oscar for a 4-3-3. That is an entirely different question. Fact is his natural position is one of the two rather advanced midfielders in a mid 3.

------Mikel----

Rami--Lamps

Is our best midfield imo. Of course lamps should not play every game and then you can put Oscar in his position, but there always has to be some rotation. You could also play both of them against smaller teams, resting Ramires etc.

Anyway Mata should be nowhere near the middle of park. Yes he does get back sometimes to collect the ball but only when we are on the front foot and he has space. Mata is midget weakling with no acceleration at all. Against physically superior players he get bullied of the ball as we have seen too often already.

The mid 3 listed above would play our 3 best CMs in the roles they are best at. Mikel in behind, relieved of offensive duties, only calming our play, playing simple passes, Lamps helping our attack with his vision and outstanding playmaking abilities + improving our conversion rates drastically, Ramires being all over the place with his tireless legs hence providing either double cover for lamps or making runs himself.

Lampard at 34 is experienced but overrated and doesn't make our first team for me but could be an important bit part player under benitez in vital games.

This has to be a fuckin joke, bro. How can the greatest player in Chelsea history be overrated?

[xPetrCechx 13,563]

[Jase 43,479]

The abuse and chants against Benitez today is just pathetic. As much as we all dislike or hate Benitez, we need to start judging him objectively and not being influenced by emotions. Booing and abusing Benitez won't help the team. The players will be affected & they don't deserve to the victims of this situation. Benitez will likely last till end of the season. Abuse him and he won't care. Team suffers and he walks away with a big fat paycheck!

[Hutcho 8,443]

The abuse and chants against Benitez today is just pathetic. As much as we all dislike or hate Benitez, we need to start judging him objectively and not being influenced by emotions. Booing and abusing Benitez won't help the team. The players will be affected & they don't deserve to the victims of this situation. Benitez will likely last till end of the season. Abuse him and he won't care. Team suffers and he walks away with a big fat paycheck!

Exactly, i genuinely felt bad for him. Now is the time after 6 games without a win we need to get behind the team... Absolutely stupid to boo him, as it will only be damaging to the team which will all do not want...

Also what is holding up an A4 sheet of rafa out gonna do.

[super_frank8 186]

Lampard at 34 is experienced but overrated and doesn't make our first team for me but could be an important bit part player under benitez in vital games.

189 goals & 120 assists - yer he is definitely overrated as fuck mate...

You are truly delusional beyond salvation if you actually somehow believe that Mikel is a better player than Lampard.

[St Abramovich 175]

The treatment of Rafa today was a complete disgrace. I don't care if you didn't want him, neither did I. He is now the manager of Chelsea Football Club and any Chelsea fan should give complete support or at least a chance. Way to go the fans at Stamford Bridge, just about turning our home into a hostile ground.

Disgrace, but proud of the team for playing through it against the league champions.